The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[natureboy]

11 hours ago, Lihu said:

Maximum 2HC is permitted to participate. If he were a 7 and kept a genuine 2 from signing up, that would be pretty bad.

The rules on Oregon Amateur qualifier registration says 5 HCPs or better are eligible. Save your fingers, I know you don't think Dan has a legitimate 5 HCP either.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, collapse said:

The Dan tournament results is a red herring.No one has shown his HC less valid than 23 million others.

Not all of the 23 million handicaps are valid. I know plenty with vanity caps.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Sorry for ascribing negativity to you incorrectly, then. My error was ascribing a tacit approval to your general silence on the accusations made in the thread. You just didn't care one way or the other. Got it.

Give me a break. I don't read or participate in every ever made on this site. It's incredibly stupid to read into "general silence." Also, you said I (and Phil) actively "dislike" him and want to see him "fail." So no, stop trying to change the story. Nobody who can read will buy it.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

But dispassionate dose of reality is not the same as bashing someone.

Please find where I have bashed Dan. Or where others in this cabal you allege have done so. Your opinion is not aligning with reality.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

That post has been modified from its original appearance. I have a very clear visual memory of it, because it struck me as particularly obnoxious and quite in contrast to your generous offer as Phil's colleague to help Dan. Of course on this site I'm sure mods are unable to edit old posts.

That post has not been touched since it was imported several months ago onto this platform. If a mod edited it, there would be a note. Even if an admin had it would have a note. I don't care to spend the time to look at the old Huddler database.

You're skirting the issue, too: the post responds to a thing saying there hadn't been an update to hourly countdown in over four months. Calling it "dead" seems pretty reasonable.

28 minutes ago, natureboy said:

His 86 for the Oregon Amateur Qualifier was on a course normally rated at 73.2 and it could have been made 'tournament tough'. That said an 86 is a disappointing score and (if it was an average score across multiple rounds) maybe equvalent to a 10 HCP. Poor tournament play still doesn't mean he's lied about his HCP scores, when a simpler explanation is that he stinks in tournaments. His early tournament rounds were fairly in line with his posted HCPs. I haven't looked at recent results.

It is a point of evidence, and it supports the theory or opinion that his handicap is a shade of "vanity." I haven't given it enough thought to even come to my own opinion on that (nor am I likely to do so), but it's a point of evidence. Definitive? No.

I don't care much about what his handicap is, though, so that's all I've got to say on that. Please try not to take my silence as implicitly endorsing anything.

P.S. If Dan's a "bad tournament player," then… that's also a reason to be realistically negative about his chances to succeed.

P.P.S. I've got better things to do than go on about your gross mischaracterization of what my "silence" or posts mean, btw. That's the end of that line of discussion. Go back to talking about The Dan Plan, not what you think other people were saying by not saying anything about The Dan Plan.

[Pretzel]

Just now, iacas said:

P.S. If Dan's a "bad tournament player," then… that's also a reason to be realistically negative about his chances to succeed.

This is the important part. Dan's handicap doesn't matter for his plan, because his goal has everything to do with tournament play. Therefore the only thing that should matter, to us and to him, is his "tournament handicap" that is created using only tournament scores, since those are the conditions he wants to face as a pro.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Pretzel said:

This is the important part. Dan's handicap doesn't matter for his plan, because his goal has everything to do with tournament play. Therefore the only thing that should matter, to us and to him, is his "tournament handicap" that is created using only tournament scores, since those are the conditions he wants to face as a pro.

Maybe the pressure of this realization is why his tournament play has gotten even worse? He clearly has a driver issue and this is a big factor for success in limited round competition on courses set up for tournaments. IMO, not accounting for the difference in tournament vs. normal stroke play was another oversight of his in setting his original goal.

[Pretzel]

5 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Maybe the pressure of this realization is why his tournament play has gotten even worse? He clearly has a driver issue and this is a big factor for success in limited round competition on courses set up for tournaments. IMO, not accounting for the difference in tournament vs. normal stroke play was another oversight of his in setting his original goal.

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.

[natureboy]

3 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.

Erroneous, unrealistic planning I'll grant you. I just don't take cheater or liar from that. His discussion in media about current HCP status is less open than I would consider ideal, but like I said probably a 'best foot forward' approach now that he's a little boxed into a corner.

[nevets88]

31 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

He honestly just needs to go play in more tournaments though, rather than quit playing in them entirely. The problem that Dan has is he can't easily garner support without success, but he can't have a hope of success (not really on the PGA, that's not happening at all, but at any level in general) without having some kind of support to be able to afford it.

Golf is expensive, he should've kept some kind of job while attempting his plan.

I'm betting there are not many donations coming in anymore. If you're blogging and go completely silent for almost 1/2 year, yet still tweet (meaning not in any mortal danger... most likely), that's how you alienate an audience - I'm betting a lot of people cancelled their Paypal autobills if there were many left to cancel.

[Pretzel]

20 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I'm betting there are not many donations coming in anymore. If you're blogging and go completely silent for almost 1/2 year, yet still tweet (meaning not in any mortal danger... most likely), that's how you alienate an audience - I'm betting a lot of people cancelled their Paypal autobills if there were many left to cancel.

I wouldn't be surprised if he's broke. I think he'll most definitely have to pick up an actual job before the 10,000 hours is complete, assuming he even completes it since he hasn't updates the hours since April.

[DrvFrShow]

I wouldn't doubt if he's actually gone back to work already. He can't be living on donations. He can't be living on a "reverse mortgage" otherwise he'll be homeless in a few years. So I would imagine he has had to take a job of some sort and is keeping quiet about it - at least working as a contractor. This also would account for his lack of progress due to lack of time available to play. I think his funds ran out a while ago which is why he can't just pick up and go somewhere for lessons. I don't think he can afford regular quality instruction necessary to accomplish the original goal. He's like the rest of us now. He'll be happy to play to 80. 

[nevets88]

IIRC, I've only skimmed his blog this past year and my memory is fuzzy, he has rental income and income from capital gains. It's a nice life, isn't it?

[newtogolf]

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Erroneous, unrealistic planning I'll grant you. I just don't take cheater or liar from that. His discussion in media about current HCP status is less open than I would consider ideal, but like I said probably a 'best foot forward' approach now that he's a little boxed into a corner.

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

[collapse]

18 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

Shocking!....unheard of....get out the fine tooth comb for everyone.

[newtogolf]

1 minute ago, collapse said:

Shocking!....unheard of....get out the fine tooth comb for everyone.

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

[natureboy]

15 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

I nor anyone else is outright calling him a cheater or a liar.  I have seen golfers with much less to lose than Dan fudge their scores to lower their handicap.  So while I don't accuse Dan of cheating, I don't rule out that he might have reported lower scores or failed to play his rounds in full accordance of the USGA rules.

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

[collapse]

Just now, newtogolf said:

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

 

2 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Keep the fine tooth comb in your pocket, but let's not pretend that just because someone has an "official" handicap (at least in the US) that it's a real indication of their ability or scores.

No one disagrees....I would say Dan is likely operating well within the understood norms.....shhh

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

The simplest explanation is that he's not as good as he thinks he is and states. . .

[newtogolf]

4 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Don't rule it out. Also don't rule out the CIA putting drugs in his water to make him play bad on days of tournaments. Sure that's not likely, but how much more than the former? The simplest explanation is that he does not play well in tournaments. Typically cheaters / fabricator types who are focused on 'winning' and 'conning' people would not show an actual regression in improvement. Do Ponzi schemers show declining returns on investment or point to those who invested and lost as a nod to potential risk?

Since you're going down this road, then you'd have to agree the key to a good con is to be believable.  If Dan is claiming a 3 handicap and he can't ever break 80 in tournaments then someone is going to question the validity of his handicap (as we have) so a regression in improvement, avoidance of tournaments, or an injury would be possible remedies to help silence the naysayers.

[nevets88]

You can go on debating his "real" handicap forever. It's hard to come upon an everyone agrees conclusion. There's a piece in Golf Magazine about celebrity handicaps taking data from GHIN. Nicklaus is ~2 and some celeb is ~2 as well and the celeb totally admits he's nowhere near as good as JN.

What you can more concretely argue is that any advice Dan Plan gives about the golf swing should be taken with a grain of salt. Or two. But since people do ask him for advice, it just irks me the potential for bad information being given out. Even professional teachers give out bad information, but it just annoys me people look to him for advice when he's really not qualified to give any and he is beholden more so than most to anyone who has given him equipment or provided him services.