The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[smaug81243]

Quote:

The class I was referring to was musical and yes I did advance to the advance class.

Even the most talented people struggle, tiger, rory, sergio and so on. Ofcourse I struggled with golf. It is the most difficult thing I have ever tried. I don't have exact date but I do plan on turning pro, I just need to work on my short game a bit more. Everyone needs to practice... all I'm saying is it doesn't take 10,000hrs to be good at something when you have talent. Yes, anyone can improve grammar, math, cooking, social skills....... but compare to people who are naturally good with numbers or anything else. THEY DON"T STAND A CHANCE.

Talented Guy who spends 3,000hrs practicing will  win against a Average Guy that practiced 10,000hrs.

Obviously Talented guy who spend 100hrs practicing will lose to average guy who spend 10k hours practicing.

Ofcourse you can gain extra 5-15yards with better swing. A guy who hits 230 drive starting out is NEVER going to hit 300+yards(unless he's hitting 230 when he's 13 :P ). He can improve his swing and hit about 250 but he has his limit.

If you can name a regular on the PGA tour who had not put in 10,000 hours by the time they got on tour I will be shocked. I do not believe your assertion that a talented individual whom spends 3,000 practicing will automatically be better than an average person who put in 10,000 hours. I grew up playing baseball and I watched talented individuals whom never practiced be fairly successful into high school. By the end of high school, I watched kids who had been significantly worse than them get scholarships to play for large universities because they put in the time on the practice field while the talented individuals were lucky if they got an offer from a D2 college.

Let's talk about your goal to turn pro after approximately 1500 hours of playing golf. Let's assume you have been playing 5 years (you have probably been playing longer than that but it isn't necessary to prove my point). That's 300 hours a year. That averages out to less than an hour a day. How do you expect to compete with players on the PGA tour who probably put in more hours than that by the time they were 8 years old? I wish you all the luck in the world but if you aren't going to put in the time you can't expect much out of it, talented or not.

Quote:

Maybe off topic, but samug only has 1 post - that one.  I guess he researched it.  But I also give the thumbs up.  Contradicting info.

I've been a lurker for a while but yes, I did research it.

[Golfingdad]

I do not believe your assertion that a talented individual whom spends 3,000 practicing will automatically be better than an average person who put in 10,000 hours.

Yeah, that was an absurd assertion.

Makes me think of guys like Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, and Kwame Brown versus guys like Drew Brees, David Eckstein, Jeff Hornacek.

[newtogolf]

Yeah, that was an absurd assertion.

Makes me think of guys like Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell, and Kwame Brown versus guys like Drew Brees, David Eckstein, Jeff Hornacek.

I was thinking Peyton Manning, I wouldn't say he's more "talented" than Eli, but he has put more hours in and the results show.

[Golfingdad]

I was thinking Peyton Manning, I wouldn't say he's more "talented" than Eli, but he has put more hours in and the results show.

Another good example.  I'd also say Kobe Bryant.  "Talent" wise, there are a myriad of other guys (Vince Carter and Tracy McGrady come to mind as his closest contemporaries) who had the same or more hype coming into the NBA.  One of them has got to the point where some people would almost (almost) put him in the conversation with Michael Jordan, whereas the other two both had fairly ordinary careers, comparatively.  Kobe didn't acquire extra talent magically after entering the NBA ... the dude worked his ass off.

[bplewis24]

IMO Peyton is one of the most talented QBs of the generation (second only to Rodgers) and Eli isn't in the same stratosphere.

[Jakester23]

In my opinion Peyton is the smartest QB of all time and he's my GOAT. But as far as physically gifted he's no where near the best of the generation. Rodgers, Luck, Newton, Vick, Cutler, ect... Peyton is playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.

[newtogolf]

In my opinion Peyton is the smartest QB of all time and he's my GOAT. But as far as physically gifted he's no where near the best of the generation. Rodgers, Luck, Newton, Vick, Cutler, ect... Peyton is playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.

THIS ^

Peyton is not as physically gifted as all of the above and maybe not even Eli but he puts more hours into watching tape and studying defenses than any other QB.  He is a true student of the game and a perfectionist.  He destined to be an amazing Head Coach one day.

[flopster]

I think the best way to understand how much or little work  10,000 hours is, is the fact that a 40 hour work week is 2000 hours in one year or there about. 5 years of learning a task like it's a regular 9-5 job especially for a young person is really not beyond reason however I think 1000-1200 in a year is a more reasonable number for a very dedicated individual to spend on a task. So lets assume a young person at the age of 8 years old discovers they have a natural talent at golf and they just love working at it everyday if possible, in 10 years time I think the 10,000 hour benchmark will be easily eclipsed and even surpassed by a few thousand.

[bplewis24]

In my opinion Peyton is the smartest QB of all time and he's my GOAT. But as far as physically gifted he's no where near the best of the generation. Rodgers, Luck, Newton, Vick, Cutler, ect... Peyton is playing chess and everyone else is playing checkers.

THIS ^

Peyton is not as physically gifted as all of the above and maybe not even Eli but he puts more hours into watching tape and studying defenses than any other QB.  He is a true student of the game and a perfectionist.  He destined to be an amazing Head Coach one day.

Speed and jumping ability are not gifts that make a QB talented.  By far the most important talents a QB possesses are arm strength, pocket awareness and decision making.  Newton, Vick and Luck are nowhere near the talent level of Rodgers and Manning.

[Golfingdad]

Speed and jumping ability are not gifts that make a QB talented.  By far the most important talents a QB possesses are arm strength, pocket awareness and decision making.  Newton, Vick and Luck are nowhere near the talent level of Rodgers and Manning.

And I think I would consider pocket awareness and decision making something that can be learned and greatly improved upon with practice (as opposed to arm strength). Not really "talents." (IMO)

[flopster]

Dan's index is now 5.2 (lowest ever). This is the number that is basically known as "the wall" so many people can get down to 5 and just stall at around 4-6 index. These are players that can occasionally shoot a 70's round 1 out of every 4-5 depending on toughness of the course, and then the next 5 or 6 best are between 80-82. I am being held back because of irons mainly and some bad putting but I think the putting would improve if I knew I had more chances with better iron play. Hard to imagine Dan being able to get to this index with a problematic driver he seems to say he has. I just don't see how someone can get down to 5 without being able to drive the ball at least 50% in the fairway, and 80% in play.

[newtogolf]

Dan's index is now 5.2 (lowest ever). This is the number that is basically known as "the wall" so many people can get down to 5 and just stall at around 4-6 index. These are players that can occasionally shoot a 70's round 1 out of every 4-5 depending on toughness of the course, and then the next 5 or 6 best are between 80-82. I am being held back because of irons mainly and some bad putting but I think the putting would improve if I knew I had more chances with better iron play. Hard to imagine Dan being able to get to this index with a problematic driver he seems to say he has. I just don't see how someone can get down to 5 without being able to drive the ball at least 50% in the fairway, and 80% in play.

Dan's index has been in question for quite some time as his tournament performance hasn't ever been close to his index.  Not sure if he is "cavalier" with the rules or just can't handle pressure, but something doesn't add up.

As to the rest of your post, one might say it takes real talent to get below a 5 and even more talent to have a + index.

[bkuehn1952]

His current index is 4.1 and the handicap season is over in Oregon until next Spring.  Personally, I think his handicap is a bit of a "vanity cap" in that he plays a lot of rounds "not for scoring" as he puts it.  All of our handicaps would be better if, when we start a round stinking out the place, we decided to make it a practice round.  Also, he plays a lot of match play with his buddies and does not post those scores, recording the score most likely for holes not completed.

Still, going from essentially a 36 handicap to a 4.1 (or even a 7.0 or 8.0) in 3 years is pretty good.  If he were younger or more athetically inclined, who knows what he could have achieved?  From my perspective the one thing he did not properly plan for was money.  He does not have enough money to have frequent professional sessions with his chosen instructor.  Also, he does not have enough money to head south when the bad weather kicks in.  He doesn't have a mental coach and I think he dropped his professional trainer (possibly for $$ reasons).  He is trying to accomplish this grand adventure on a shoestring budget.

The other issue with which I have a problem is his goal.  He defined reaching an "expert" level of talent as qualifying for the PGA Tour.  A more realistic goal might have been to reach a plus handicap playing from the tips.  Someone who can play a 7,000+ yard course with a slope of 130+ close to par is an expert in my book.  He may not have a chance in hell of playing on the Tour but he is one heck of a golfer.  Ultimately I think he chose his goal based on marketing.  It is a lot easier to sell a documentary or book about a guy's quest to reach the PGA Tour as opposed to a guy's quest to become a plus handicap.  It is hard to support & defend someone that you suspect has an ulterior motive.

[iacas]

Still, going from essentially a 36 handicap to a 4.1 (or even a 7.0 or 8.0) in 3 years is pretty good.

I disagree. Remember, this is basically his full-time job. I know a lot of people who have taken up golf and become a mid single-digit golfer within three years playing only part time.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

Still, going from essentially a 36 handicap to a 4.1 (or even a 7.0 or 8.0) in 3 years is pretty good.

I disagree. Remember, this is basically his full-time job. I know a lot of people who have taken up golf and become a mid single-digit golfer within three years playing only part time.

I'm sure you're responsible for some of those success stories.

[flopster]

[David in FL]

What I find rather odd is Dan consistently posts 6 rounds per month, I also decided to look at his countdown page and noticed he played nearly 15 times in October but only has 6 scores entered and two scores he said he had 83 twice are not in his October entries, I know ghin tries to protect our whereabouts by not putting dates but this is very fishy, I don't think Dan is a 4.1, I think he's more like a 6 but feels the pressure of showing improvement so he only enters rounds he played well in.

He also tends to post a bunch of scores all at once, rather than after every round.  Methinks there's some index management going on......

I'd like to see him post more links to actual tournament website results where we can see verifiable rounds played under controlled conditions.

[hopefulhacker]

He was playing off HC off 8 at the time and walked away "happy" with 17 over

From the videos, his short game was decent, but anything outside of that was pretty horrible.

Tee shot.....cut to Dan looking for his ball in the rough (happened on most par 4's)

Then he proceeded to lift his ball from heavy rough and place it nicely on top of the rough on a few occasssions, it was mid summer so I'm pretty sure there wasn't a local rule in place.

+17 off a 8HC on a fairly easy 5,900 yard course.... sorry but he could practice for 20,000 hours and he won't cut it.

Minding his handicap was in question before I watched him play that round, I had no doubts afterwards.

The icing on the cake was his penalty for an "airshot"... sorry Dan, single figure golfers don't have do airshots.