The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Shorty]

Do you think it is disrespectful for someone to verbalize a goal that others are trying to reach? Honest question. No wrong answer.

I am trying to analyze why people feel so strong about the Dan Plan.

Would you humour a person who had never played guitar saying he was going to join the Rolling Stones? An ADULT, that is? And wanted you to fund his quest?

It's because of his awkward combination of arrogance and ignorance.

He has a complete lack of respect and admiration for what may be in many cases a genetic advantage, or sheer hard work, guts and determination in others.

He doesn't know what a PGATour pro does. He has clearly never actually seen or LOOKED at how they strike the ball.

The theory he is following has been misinterpreted.

He is dishonest about his scoring.

He has a nauseating, almost evangelical smugness.

All the evidence shows that he is going nowhere, yet here he is travelling around the world having TV producers and naive golfers thinking that here is an ordinary guy who has followed a plan and will become a PGATour pro.

As I have said a million times, he would not be in a any club's top 50 players.

And....he wants your money.

That's why I feel so strongly about him.

Ignorant people who don't know golf will point at him and believe that he got to "Tour level" because they don't understand the big picture.

He sets a bad example.

[Pretzel]

Do you think it is disrespectful for someone to verbalize a goal that others are trying to reach? Honest question. No wrong answer. I am trying to analyze why people feel so strong about the Dan Plan. Some people may be familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk. He is very vocal about his goal to buy the NY Jets. That obviously is a ridiculous goal. He would need to be in the top 1/2% of the wealthiest people in the world. However, it is the goal that drives him. I am fascinated but I never thought of it as disrespectful to those that are laboring closer to the goal than he is. Again, no wrong answer just trying to understand the thought process.

I feel that, at least at the start, he trivialized the amount of effort it takes to make it as a professional golfer. He seemed fairly happy go lucky about the affair and was confident that he would make it without a doubt despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary that can be found in mini tours across the country. Now that he gets into it though he is starting to realize the amount of work it takes, and even just how hard it can sometimes be to be honest in your self assessment of current abilities.

[flopster]

Do you think it is disrespectful for someone to verbalize a goal that others are trying to reach? Honest question. No wrong answer.

I am trying to analyze why people feel so strong about the Dan Plan.

Some people may be familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk. He is very vocal about his goal to buy the NY Jets. That obviously is a ridiculous goal. He would need to be in the top 1/2% of the wealthiest people in the world. However, it is the goal that drives him. I am fascinated but I never thought of it as disrespectful to those that are laboring closer to the goal than he is.

Again, no wrong answer just trying to understand the thought process.

No it's not wrong, only the way you verbalize it would be, Dan's complete naiveness at the start was accepted as that by most, I think what started turning more people off was his self promotion tactics and later the inconsistency in his posting raised many eyebrows (handicap vs anticap made little sense) and then his tournament scores really exposed his ability at a much lower level than he wanted anyone to see. Someone even who met personally with him said he's "stubborn" and will not stick with anything that doesn't give positive results immediately, that part alone proves he does not have what it takes since he doesn't have the mental fortitude to stick with something that may not be his idea and further proves he wants all the credit if he would actually succeed.

[Lihu]

No it's not wrong, only the way you verbalize it would be, Dan's complete naiveness at the start was accepted as that by most, I think what started turning more people off was his self promotion tactics and later the inconsistency in his posting raised many eyebrows (handicap vs anticap made little sense) and then his tournament scores really exposed his ability at a much lower level than he wanted anyone to see. Someone even who met personally with him said he's "stubborn" and will not stick with anything that doesn't give positive results immediately, that part alone proves he does not have what it takes since he doesn't have the mental fortitude to stick with something that may not be his idea and further proves he wants all the credit if he would actually succeed.

Interesting observation. I didn't really catch this one.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Well, the hope is that he is now good enough to know just how hard this game really is to play. In addition to this, maybe he will start to respect all the thousands of people who are capable of shooting in the mid-60s who are all trying to attain his boasted goal.

Do you think it is disrespectful for someone to verbalize a goal that others are trying to reach? Honest question. No wrong answer.

I am trying to analyze why people feel so strong about the Dan Plan. Some people may be familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk. He is very vocal about his goal to buy the NY Jets. That obviously is a ridiculous goal. He would need to be in the top 1/2% of the wealthiest people in the world. However, it is the goal that drives him. I am fascinated but I never thought of it as disrespectful to those that are laboring closer to the goal than he is.

Again, no wrong answer just trying to understand the thought process.

It's complicated. In his case, by saying what he did, in a nutshell, whether intentionally or unintentionally and whether out of naivete or lack of knowledge and experience, the read between the lines of his stated goal is "I can do this in a shorter amount of time with less talent." Many have barely qualified for the tour with more innate talent and way more hours devoted. See Mike Weir's story. The Dan Plan's statement trivializes the difficulty of those who made it and those who didn't but were so close, like a margin of $50-$100 of earnings close.

And one of the things he said, was something like, I don't see what's tangible that makes a pro golfer so special. That's a very loose paraphrase, but basically he can't see the set of skills, whatever that is, that makes someone a PGA Tour player, so there's really nothing special about them. Even though I can't see or elucidate exactly what makes someone a success on the tour, I damn well know they have something.

[newtogolf]

Do you think it is disrespectful for someone to verbalize a goal that others are trying to reach? Honest question. No wrong answer.

I am trying to analyze why people feel so strong about the Dan Plan.

Some people may be familiar with Gary Vaynerchuk. He is very vocal about his goal to buy the NY Jets. That obviously is a ridiculous goal. He would need to be in the top 1/2% of the wealthiest people in the world. However, it is the goal that drives him. I am fascinated but I never thought of it as disrespectful to those that are laboring closer to the goal than he is.

Again, no wrong answer just trying to understand the thought process.

I don't know Dan but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he had good intentions when he started this journey.  He clearly underestimated the natural ability and effort required to be a PGA Tour pro which we attribute to ignorance.  At this point it's become a bit of a circus side show.  He's desperate for money and sponsorship and seems willing to do just about anything to get some attention and funding.

I, like many, question the legitimacy of his handicap given his tournament performance and this is where people are losing patience with him.  At some point he's got to back up all the words he writes in his blog with performance on the course and with the exception of unsubstantiated scores on his own, he hasn't shown us anything that indicates he's close to on track with his stated goal.

[Lihu]

So, I spent a few minutes looking into Michael Neff. Seems like a pretty high technology club fitter.

Here's his website. http://www.michaelneffgolf.com/

Some information about him: http://theaposition.com/jeffwallach/golf/equipment/2388/i-am-the-taylormade-golf-poster-child

I wonder what he might have to say about their session?

[Pretzel]

I don't know Dan but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he had good intentions when he started this journey.  He clearly underestimated the natural ability and effort required to be a PGA Tour pro which we attribute to ignorance.  At this point it's become a bit of a circus side show.  He's desperate for money and sponsorship and seems willing to do just about anything to get some attention and funding. I, like many, question the legitimacy of his handicap given his tournament performance and this is where people are losing patience with him.  At some point he's got to back up all the words he writes in his blog with performance on the course and with the exception of unsubstantiated scores on his own, he hasn't shown us anything that indicates he's close to on track with his stated goal.

It's not, at least to me, necessarily that he's not on track for his goal (I didn't expect him to be with his lofty goal), it's just that he has the outward appearance of not realizing how far off track he is from the goal and he goes off on seemingly unrelated tangents sometimes. If you want to play on tour as your goal, great, but you better bust your balls trying if you want to come close. That means you can't just go out and play a daily round with a one hour warm-up "practice" session. You need to identify weaknesses and develop a plan to address them. You need to be out there on the course and practice area implementing that plan, and you can't skimp on the time it will take. He quit his day job for this, so why doesn't he treat this like his job and put I'm up to eight hours a day either on the course or in the gym? I'm sorry if I come across as harsh here, but Dan wants this to be his job (professional golfer is his goal, remember?). Right now he just treats it as though it were an interesting hobby.

[Lihu]

It's not, at least to me, necessarily that he's not on track for his goal (I didn't expect him to be with his lofty goal), it's just that he has the outward appearance of not realizing how far off track he is from the goal and he goes off on seemingly unrelated tangents sometimes.

If you want to play on tour as your goal, great, but you better bust your balls trying if you want to come close. That means you can't just go out and play a daily round with a one hour warm-up "practice" session. You need to identify weaknesses and develop a plan to address them. You need to be out there on the course and practice area implementing that plan, and you can't skimp on the time it will take. He quit his day job for this, so why doesn't he treat this like his job and put I'm up to eight hours a day either on the course or in the gym?

I'm sorry if I come across as harsh here, but Dan wants this to be his job (professional golfer is his goal, remember?). Right now he just treats it as though it were an interesting hobby.

Not just any job.

Engineers in the consumer world spend 10-12 hours a day to solve our problems. Usually, this is never enough time. We do it because we are wired for success. Sometimes we unwind for a few minutes here and there to recharge or let ideas float around for a while (or programs/logic to compile/synthesize), but it takes a lot of time conscious and sub-conscious to make things happen.

Even though I am a relative newbie and with what little success I have made in golf, I can see that golf takes the same amount of effort as any engineering project. The only difference is you get to experiment with your own physical motions. That's cool.

Dan would need to have the engineering mentality, rather than the marketing mentality to succeed. When an engineer comes across a problem he will want to work at it for as long as it takes. Does the engineer shun or avoid outside help to "take all the credit"? Heck, no. We get every little tidbit of information we can to help us to get to the end goal.

The harder the problem the harder we work at it to solve it, kind of like golfers wanting to improve.

This is why I made many connections to his marketing background, and why I think golfers are very much like engineers.

They think and do.

[nevets88]

[quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1860#post_1067736"]I don't know Dan but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he had good intentions when he started this journey.  He clearly underestimated the natural ability and effort required to be a PGA Tour pro which we attribute to ignorance.  At this point it's become a bit of a circus side show.  He's desperate for money and sponsorship and seems willing to do just about anything to get some attention and funding. I, like many, question the legitimacy of his handicap given his tournament performance and this is where people are losing patience with him.  At some point he's got to back up all the words he writes in his blog with performance on the course and with the exception of unsubstantiated scores on his own, he hasn't shown us anything that indicates he's close to on track with his stated goal.

It's not, at least to me, necessarily that he's not on track for his goal (I didn't expect him to be with his lofty goal), it's just that he has the outward appearance of not realizing how far off track he is from the goal and he goes off on seemingly unrelated tangents sometimes. If you want to play on tour as your goal, great, but you better bust your balls trying if you want to come close. That means you can't just go out and play a daily round with a one hour warm-up "practice" session. You need to identify weaknesses and develop a plan to address them. You need to be out there on the course and practice area implementing that plan, and you can't skimp on the time it will take. He quit his day job for this, so why doesn't he treat this like his job and put I'm up to eight hours a day either on the course or in the gym? I'm sorry if I come across as harsh here, but Dan wants this to be his job (professional golfer is his goal, remember?). Right now he just treats it as though it were an interesting hobby.[/quote] I may be wrong but he looks the same physically compared to when he started. He should have more muscle mass.

[Slice of Life]

I may be wrong but he looks the same physically compared to when he started. He should have more muscle mass.

He doesn't take it seriously. If I were in his shoes, I'd look like Rory right now.

[natureboy]

It's simply ball speed/clubhead speed.

The less delivered loft (and the more centered the hit), the more smash factor you can get. Thin the crap out of a 9-iron and you can get 1.53 sometimes.

PGA Tour players have higher smash factors than most AND higher spin rates than most because… they swing the club faster than most.

It's 65/20/15. :)

I don't give that a lot of weight. Most people learn putting by experience. It only really keeps growing.

Most people in their 30s don't improve their ball striking because they have families and jobs and are spending less time playing golf.

I support the idea of teaching juniors to smash the ball first. What good is it to have a great short game if you're trying to chip in for seven?

Interesting, I thought the upper limit on smash factor was 1.5. Can't someone with a lower swing speed have a higher smash factor than someone who swing much faster, but with poorer contact?

My thought on smash factor / 'strike efficiency' was that if you have perfect centered contact with identical clubs and swing speeds at impact then the ball hit with more spin has to have less of the club's momentum transferred into ball speed. So higher spin for center contact is less ball speed & smash factor for a given swing speed with the same club. Conservation of momentum, no?

I was thinking of really little kids starting with shorter shots...keeping it basic / not getting very technical with full swing mechanics because their bodies will change a lot as they grow. Tiger, Rory, & Nicklaus all started learning to whomp the ball first then refine directing it, so history seems to agree with you. Plus it's fun...if they aren't over-straining their bodies in the process.

If you don't have a good short game...it could be a 9, but I get your point. Just playing a lot for kids will probably work most of the shots.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1854#post_1067787"] I may be wrong but he looks the same physically compared to when he started. He should have more muscle mass.[/QUOTE] He doesn't take it seriously. If I were in his shoes, I'd look like Rory right now.

Yeah, you don't need to spend lots of $ on a health club. A simple setup, a bench, some bars and free weights will do. Even half a Rory would help. I think if I were the public eye, that would be more than enough incentive for me not to look bad.

[Slice of Life]

Yeah, you don't need to spend lots of $ on a health club. A simple setup, a bench, some bars and free weights will do. Even half a Rory would help.

My basement. All you need to get in great shape.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer/1854#post_1067804"] Yeah, you don't need to spend lots of $ on a health club. A simple setup, a bench, some bars and free weights will do. Even half a Rory would help.[/QUOTE] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/108023/] [/URL] My basement. All you need to get in great shape.

You could get a lot done without free weights even. Look at the guys and gals at West Point and such. They have to do a certain amount of push-ups, pull ups, sit-ups , run 2/3 miles like 8 min minimum pace or something like that. Or they're out.

[natureboy]

 

 

It's simply ball speed/clubhead speed.

 

The less delivered loft (and the more centered the hit), the more smash factor you can get. Thin the crap out of a 9-iron and you can get 1.53 sometimes.

 

PGA Tour players have higher smash factors than most AND higher spin rates than most because… they swing the club faster than most.

 

 

It's 65/20/15. :)

 

 

I don't give that a lot of weight. Most people learn putting by experience. It only really keeps growing.

 

Most people in their 30s don't improve their ball striking because they have families and jobs and are spending less time playing golf.

 

I support the idea of teaching juniors to smash the ball first. What good is it to have a great short game if you're trying to chip in for seven?

Which velocity / speed does Trackman measure for its smash factor calculation? The strictly horizontal velocity, or the velocity of the ball along the projected line of the launch angle?

Wouldn't a a strictly horizontal velocity measurement / calculation give a lower effective velocity measure for higher lofted clubs and therefore underrate the efficiency of the the tranfer of momentum? If so it could also explain why pros have much higher smash factors, because with a more de-lofted club there would be more linear transfer of energy & higher horizontal velocity for a given club & swing speed.

[Lihu]

I may be wrong but he looks the same physically compared to when he started. He should have more muscle mass.

I have less fat mass.

He doesn't take it seriously. If I were in his shoes, I'd look like Rory right now.

Or bigger like Jason Zuback?

Yeah, you don't need to spend lots of $ on a health club. A simple setup, a bench, some bars and free weights will do. Even half a Rory would help.

I think if I were the public eye, that would be more than enough incentive for me not to look bad.

You don't need any $$$ to do isometrics and pilates core strength exercises. You can build a lot of mass just doing pullups and pushups. No idea if they will do any good for golf, though.

[MS256]

I have less fat mass.

Or bigger like Jason Zuback?

You don't need any $$$ to do isometrics and pilates core strength exercises. You can build a lot of mass just doing pullups and pushups. No idea if they will do any good for golf, though.

Nothing wrong with fitness but I think you guys are putting waaaaaaay to much stock in it. There are plenty of guys on the PGA Tour that don't have much muscle at all and absolutely smoke the crap out of the ball.

Hell Bubba Watson probably doesn't have 16" biceps.

If muscle was what it takes I would be a golfer.

(And I'm most certainly not).