The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[Ernest Jones]

Question: if we took every player who played their first PGA event in 2014, and then somehow rewound them 4300 hours of deliberate practice.... What might that player profile look like? Where would their golf game be, as compared to where Dan is at this moment (struggling to hit a driver, and struggling to get under 80 in small local tournaments)?

Where were they not just in their golf game, but in their positioning to enter tournaments? Were they web.com players mostly? Seasoned amateurs with lots of tournament experience? Or were they guys we wouldn't have guessed would have ever made a PGA event, just putzing around trying to find a formula to make a good showing in little-ish city events?

Whatever that profile is for those new PGA tour players who have been rewound 4300 hours, that's where Dan needs to be TODAY, since he has only 4300 hours left.

Like most of you, I think Dan is light-years behind where he needs to be. Not even remotely possible to succeed from where he is.

But occasionally we see some young gun Monday qualify (recently some high school kid get into an event somewhere down south, as I recall, and his coach caddied), and I'd be curious how those players caught lightning in a bottle to sneak into an event. Did they just have a a year or two of amazing play and then get all the breaks to find the right tournament to enter? I think at this point, Dan will need two things to play on a tour event after 4300 hours:

1. Improve at a pace he has thus far not been able to demonstrate that he can

2. Find a realistic event for which he could Monday-qualify, and then play incredibly well to get in, hoping that very few other talented players try to do the same for that event.

Those seem like remote odds, and I'm not seeing him lay out any solid plan to achieve either. Heck, at this point, I'd bet on Dan being the first to be eliminated in this current cast of Big Break Myrtle Beach. Well, he might've beaten Krista in that elimination challenge, since she choked... but Anthony could take him down easily. It'll be fun regardless watching it unfold.

I think any PGA player, if "rewound" 4300 hours from their very first PGA Tour start would absolutely destroy Dan. These guys are all playing better than scratch golf LONG before they crack the PGA.

[newtogolf]

I think any PGA player, if "rewound" 4300 hours from their very first PGA Tour start would absolutely destroy Dan. These guys are all playing better than scratch golf LONG before they crack the PGA.

I think it depends on the pro and this is where the discussion about natural ability versus  what Dan's trying to prove comes to task.  How do you account for pro's like Tiger Woods who turned pro at 19, Spieth - 19,  Rory - 18, Michelle Wie - 17 and Lydia Ko -16?

4300 hours is a significant amount of their life, no less time dedicated to golf for someone between 16-19 years old and these aren't just pro's, they are some of the best pro's in the sport.

[Pretzel]

If you took any pro and rewound them by 4300 hours of dedicated practice before after their first start, they would either be playing collegiate golf at the highest level (Jordan Spieth, Tiger Woods etc.), winning prestigious amateur tournaments (Lydia Ko, top ranked amateur for 130 weeks prior to going pro), or playing on another professional circuit such as the web.com tour.

For these guys rewinding them by 4300 hours is like saying, "What did you do last year at this time?" or "What did you do between a year and two years ago?". They put in the hours, and Dan does not.

[18rounds]

I know I've said it before but every time I wander back into this thread I am amazed at how strong people feel about Dan. It would never occur to me to resent someone for having a donation button on their website.

I don't resent the tip jar at the local ice cream shop. I may not donate but I certainly do not resent that it is there.

I have a friend who plays golf 4-5 times a week because his wife has such a high paying job that he does not need to work. Basically he does a bit of freelance work that pays for his golf but she supports the household financially. I never thought to resent him.

If Dan figured out a between advertisers, speaking and donations to play golf full time good for him. I am not giving him a pass if he is not being honest with his scores. I know his tournament scores don't match his handicap. He seems like a nervous and not very secure guy. Is it possible he blows up under pressure. I have a regular golfing buddy that goes to pieces with even the smallest bet on the line.

I am not trying to say we should hold him up as a roll model.

[chasm]

I think it depends on the pro and this is where the discussion about natural ability versus  what Dan's trying to prove comes to task.  How do you account for pro's like Tiger Woods who turned pro at 19, Spieth - 19,  Rory - 18, Michelle Wie - 17 and Lydia Ko -16?  4300 hours is a significant amount of their life, no less time dedicated to golf for someone between 16-19 years old and these aren't just pro's, they are some of the best pro's in the sport.

I can absolutely guarantee you that the 18 year-old Rory McIlroy had put in a lot more than 4300 hours of practice by the time he turned pro. According to wikipedia he could hit the ball 40 yards when he was two years old. He was the world champion in the 9-10 year-old age group. He played golf almost constantly from infancy. Having said that, your point about natural ability is quite right. Talent and practice are a mutually reinforcing pair. The talented get massive encouragement because when they practice, they see improve, so they practice more. I haven't followed the Dan thing very closely, but it strikes me that he may not have a great deal of natural ability. The gulf between where he is now and where he'd need to be as a tour pro seems to be pretty wide.

[newtogolf]

I know I've said it before but every time I wander back into this thread I am amazed at how strong people feel about Dan. It would never occur to me to resent someone for having a donation button on their website.

I don't resent the tip jar at the local ice cream shop. I may not donate but I certainly do not resent that it is there.

I have a friend who plays golf 4-5 times a week because his wife has such a high paying job that he does not need to work. Basically he does a bit of freelance work that pays for his golf but she supports the household financially. I never thought to resent him.

If Dan figured out a between advertisers, speaking and donations to play golf full time good for him. I am not giving him a pass if he is not being honest with his scores. I know his tournament scores don't match his handicap. He seems like a nervous and not very secure guy. Is it possible he blows up under pressure. I have a regular golfing buddy that goes to pieces with even the smallest bet on the line.

I am not trying to say we should hold him up as a roll model.

I don't feel strongly about it, but I do feel that if you solicit donations from strangers you be honest about your intentions to use the money.  Your local ice cream shop tip jar is up front that it's for tips and if you choose to drop your loose change in there you expect they will take the money and split it up to put in their pockets.  What if instead of labeling it a tip jar, they labeled it St. Judes but at the end of the night they still split up the money amongst themselves?

Those that have strong feelings about Dan and his donation button feel that he's perpetrating a fraud.  He isn't taking the steps many believe would be required of someone that wants to become a professional golfer in 10,000 hours.  The integrity of the plan and his effort is in question but his continued request for financial support makes some question the legitimacy of Dan and his intentions.

[Pretzel]

I know I've said it before but every time I wander back into this thread I am amazed at how strong people feel about Dan. It would never occur to me to resent someone for having a donation button on their website.

I don't resent the tip jar at the local ice cream shop. I may not donate but I certainly do not resent that it is there.

I have a friend who plays golf 4-5 times a week because his wife has such a high paying job that he does not need to work. Basically he does a bit of freelance work that pays for his golf but she supports the household financially. I never thought to resent him.

If Dan figured out a between advertisers, speaking and donations to play golf full time good for him. I am not giving him a pass if he is not being honest with his scores. I know his tournament scores don't match his handicap. He seems like a nervous and not very secure guy. Is it possible he blows up under pressure. I have a regular golfing buddy that goes to pieces with even the smallest bet on the line.

I am not trying to say we should hold him up as a roll model.

I don't care about the money aspect of it, I just am frustrated at the fact that he says he's doing one thing (trying to get to the professional tour with 10,000 hours of practice) and then doesn't do anything that would help him to get there.

It's like me saying, "I'm going to become a pilot" and then going off and practicing by sitting in airport lounges.

[Slice of Life]

It's like me saying, "I'm going to become a pilot" and then going off and practicing by sitting in airport lounges.

I laughed pretty hard at this.

I think everyone would support him more if he had a plan. But it should be called The Dan Idea. Saying I want to become a pro, is not a plan.

[Lihu]

Question: if we took every player who played their first PGA event in 2014, and then somehow rewound them 4300 hours of deliberate practice.... What might that player profile look like? Where would their golf game be, as compared to where Dan is at this moment (struggling to hit a driver, and struggling to get under 80 in small local tournaments)?

Where were they not just in their golf game, but in their positioning to enter tournaments? Were they web.com players mostly? Seasoned amateurs with lots of tournament experience? Or were they guys we wouldn't have guessed would have ever made a PGA event, just putzing around trying to find a formula to make a good showing in little-ish city events?

Whatever that profile is for those new PGA tour players who have been rewound 4300 hours, that's where Dan needs to be TODAY, since he has only 4300 hours left.

Like most of you, I think Dan is light-years behind where he needs to be. Not even remotely possible to succeed from where he is.

But occasionally we see some young gun Monday qualify (recently some high school kid get into an event somewhere down south, as I recall, and his coach caddied), and I'd be curious how those players caught lightning in a bottle to sneak into an event. Did they just have a a year or two of amazing play and then get all the breaks to find the right tournament to enter? I think at this point, Dan will need two things to play on a tour event after 4300 hours:

1. Improve at a pace he has thus far not been able to demonstrate that he can

2. Find a realistic event for which he could Monday-qualify, and then play incredibly well to get in, hoping that very few other talented players try to do the same for that event.

Those seem like remote odds, and I'm not seeing him lay out any solid plan to achieve either. Heck, at this point, I'd bet on Dan being the first to be eliminated in this current cast of Big Break Myrtle Beach. Well, he might've beaten Krista in that elimination challenge, since she choked... but Anthony could take him down easily. It'll be fun regardless watching it unfold.

I think we would find that most Tour caliper players practiced a heck of a lot more than 10,000 hours even minus 4300 hours.

My son's friend that started taking golf seriously at the same time Dan started his plan was already invited to play pebble beach and played there this last summer. He is about scratch, and only almost 16 years old. This is the kid that I stated in earlier posts in this thread, practiced over 30,000 hours starting roughly 3-4 years ago. No one really knows for sure if he will even become pro, but he is probably a lot closer than Dan. Plus, this kid wins some of his tournaments.

This is probably why you think Dan is light years behind, because he doesn't stand a chance against any of the kids like the one I mentioned.

[nevets88]

The gist of it is the plan is superficial. People can do what they want with their money. I would be fine w/it if he reneged on the PGA goal.

[Lihu]

The gist of it is the plan is superficial. People can do what they want with their money. I would be fine w/it if he reneged on the PGA goal.

So, I am guessing you would be fine with the "The Dan Plan: The art of quitting your job for 5 years, getting funding off the internet, conning people to give you free equipment and training aids, practicing for 10,000 hours to get to an 8 handicap" ???

Somehow, I don't find this to be a very worthy investment.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/1980#post_1074510"]   The gist of it is the plan is superficial. People can do what they want with their money. I would be fine w/it if he reneged on the PGA goal. [/QUOTE] So, I am guessing you would be fine with the "The Dan Plan: The art of quitting your job for 5 years, getting funding off the internet, conning people to give you free equipment and training aids, practicing for 10,000 hours to get to an 8 handicap" ??? Somehow, I don't find this to be a very worthy investment. :hmm:

Is it a con? Some people are getting entertainment, inspiration from it. I'm not going to judge. As for removing the goal, people are so focused on the goal they lost sight of the journey.

[newtogolf]

Is it a con? Some people are getting entertainment, inspiration from it. I'm not going to judge.

As for removing the goal, people are so focused on the goal they lost sight of the journey.

Without a goal I'm not interested in the journey.  I have no interest in watching drifters moving from one locale to the next without any final destination in mind

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/1980_30#post_1074521"] Is it a con? Some people are getting entertainment, inspiration from it. I'm not going to judge. As for removing the goal, people are so focused on the goal they lost sight of the journey.[/QUOTE] Without a goal I'm not interested in the journey.  I have no interest in watching drifters moving from one locale to the next without any final destination in mind

I would change the goal. I dunno. Scratch on a very difficult course. More realistic than PGA tour but yeah, contributions will dry up.

[Lihu]

Is it a con? Some people are getting entertainment, inspiration from it. I'm not going to judge.

As for removing the goal, people are so focused on the goal they lost sight of the journey.

I agree about being focused on the journey.

That's what I am doing with all my personal improvement posts. They are basically a diary of my progress. In fact, I really don't have any goals at this point. Once I got below 15, it seemed a lot more fun. For instance, I can laugh at my 3 putt bogey on a 180 yard par 3, because I made the center of the green with an old 1965 style 4i upwind and uphill. I can also laugh at my worm burner drives, which really didn't cost me that much in terms of getting near greens in two shots. I just enjoyed being out there and playing. Would I have liked to make all the pars? Sure, but that was not my main goal of being out there this morning.

Many more of us are also doing the same thing, that's the entire point behind this site.

Golf is hard, but it's also fun. Let's not lose sight of that as well.

I think the point many of us are making is that, by Dan convincing people to pay for him to do this full time is a bit of a "con".

[newtogolf]

I agree about being focused on the journey.

That's what I am doing with all my personal improvement posts. They are basically a diary of my progress. In fact, I really don't have any goals at this point. Once I got below 15, it seemed a lot more fun. For instance, I can laugh at my 3 putt bogey on a 180 yard par 3, because I made the center of the green with an old 1965 style 4i upwind and uphill. I can also laugh at my worm burner drives, which really didn't cost me that much in terms of getting near greens in two shots. I just enjoyed being out there and playing. Would I have liked to make all the pars? Sure, but that was not my main goal of being out there this morning.

Many more of us are also doing the same thing, that's the entire point behind this site.

Golf is hard, but it's also fun. Let's not lose sight of that as well.

I think the point many of us are making is that, by Dan convincing people to pay for him to do this full time is a bit of a "con".

What you're doing is more applicable to what the average person here or in the real world is doing so it's actually of more interest than Dan panhandling his way to some unknown new goal.

[Shorty]

I think the point many of us are making is that, by Dan convincing people to pay for him to do this full time is a bit of a "con".

You know what?

I wouldn't really care if he wanted people to pay him to give up work and play golf for 5 years as long as he was open about it.

The thing that absolutely infuriates me is the knowledge that despite it being obvious from day one that he doesn't have the potential to even become a genuine low handicapper, what will happen is as follows:

He will eventually attribute his "failure" to become a PGA pro to lack of financial support, and say that it's a pity people don't believe in dreams and human potential.

There will be clueless organisations who employ him to speak. He will say "I got down to 2  or whatever, but had to stop because I couldn't afford it." Audience members will think "Hey, pros are scratch players -  he got within a couple of shots this guys' good enough for me! What an amazing story".

The question I would ask Dan is to look at the World Amateur rankings and ask how he is going to leapfrog the six thousand plus handicap players no-one has ever heard of.

Failing that, what strategy does he have to overtake the ex PGATour players who are still relatively young who are "languishing" on the minor tours? Presumably their club handicaps would generally be plus 4, 5 or 6.

At the moment he is just hanging around, milking whatever free publicity he gets and looking to blame others for his inability to get above a plateau that any newcomer finds after a year or so.

Fact is if he was ever going to be any good, he would be shooting low 70s consistently 3 years after taking up the game.

[Lihu]

You know what?

I wouldn't really care if he wanted people to pay him to give up work and play golf for 5 years as long as he was open about it.

The thing that absolutely infuriates me is the knowledge that despite it being obvious from day one that he doesn't have the potential to even become a genuine low handicapper, what will happen is as follows:

He will eventually attribute his "failure" to become a PGA pro to lack of financial support, and say that it's a pity people don't believe in dreams and human potential.

There will be clueless organisations who employ him to speak. He will say "I got down to 2  or whatever, but had to stop because I couldn't afford it." Audience members will think "Hey, pros are scratch players -  he got within a couple of shots this guys' good enough for me! What an amazing story".

The question I would ask Dan is to look at the World Amateur rankings and ask how he is going to leapfrog the six thousand plus handicap players no-one has ever heard of.

Failing that, what strategy does he have to overtake the ex PGATour players who are still relatively young who are "languishing" on the minor tours? Presumably their club handicaps would generally be plus 4, 5 or 6.

At the moment he is just hanging around, milking whatever free publicity he gets and looking to blame others for his inability to get above a plateau that any newcomer finds after a year or so.

Fact is if he was ever going to be any good, he would be shooting low 70s consistently 3 years after taking up the game.

Guessing for older kids or adults.

I know a couple of kids who have been playing since 6 years old and took almost 10 years to get to scratch. Two kids I know are still 10 handicaps playing the standard male tees, but are still 9 years old.

What you're doing is more applicable to what the average person here or in the real world is doing so it's actually of more interest than Dan panhandling his way to some unknown new goal.

This is why this site is very interesting. We can watch each other progress, and flounder, and whatever else. It's a nice place for us to gather and chat/comment about all our golfing experiences.