The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[GHIN0011458]

I am not sure why you are both so vigorously criticizing him. He might or he might not be a 'real' 3.1 handicap, he might or he might not talk as an 'accomplished' player would. I do not think either of you have met him (neither have I for that matter), so I am puzzled as to why you would be so anti-Dan (I have tried to think of a more appropriate word, but I hope you get the gist of it).

Personally, I don't think he is taking the route I would have taken, but then again, it is his route. The way I see it he is still walking in the general direction of his goal. It remains to be seen whether he makes it within 10k hours.

When I first saw it, I was all over this as I would love to do something like this. But the more I hear about it and the more I read on it and the more he dodges questions about tournament play is what made me skeptical. Why in the WORLD are you not competing more if your goal is to be a professional tournament golfer?? Why aren't you breaking 80 in the tournaments you are playing in? I think there are more people on here who would have loved this to be a success story because it gives all of us a sense of "what if I did this for 10,000 hours, could I make it too?"

That is another thing, he is not walking in the general direction of his goal. It does remain to be seen, just like it remains to be seen if Tiger will get 19 majors. Who knows. I enjoy this thread more than I enjoy his website though. I can say that at least.

[Lihu]

I am not sure why you are both so vigorously criticizing him. He might or he might not be a 'real' 3.1 handicap, he might or he might not talk as an 'accomplished' player would. I do not think either of you have met him (neither have I for that matter), so I am puzzled as to why you would be so anti-Dan (I have tried to think of a more appropriate word, but I hope you get the gist of it).

Personally, I don't think he is taking the route I would have taken, but then again, it is his route. The way I see it he is still walking in the general direction of his goal. It remains to be seen whether he makes it within 10k hours.

Many people on this site feel the same way about his path choices.

If Dan came out and said he's a 10 handicap at this point, but sees his potential, blah blah blah, I think it would be much more palatable for me, at least. The issue is that his handicap lowered just enough and in time for him to enter the OR amateur. What made me start to doubt him was his performance during the tournaments and the ones following. The descriptions and excuses he gave in his blog tipped me over to the doubter side.

Prior to this, I was hoping he would succeed. I was hoping to see another adult just starting golf get to a PGA pro level. It was inspiring, kind of.

The issue is that I feel like he might have cheated to play in those tournaments, and might not be all that straightforward with his statistics.

[Shorty]

I am not sure why you are both so vigorously criticizing him. He might or he might not be a 'real' 3.1 handicap, he might or he might not talk as an 'accomplished' player would. I do not think either of you have met him (neither have I for that matter), so I am puzzled as to why you would be so anti-Dan (I have tried to think of a more appropriate word, but I hope you get the gist of it).

Personally, I don't think he is taking the route I would have taken, but then again, it is his route. The way I see it he is still walking in the general direction of his goal. It remains to be seen whether he makes it within 10k hours.

How about he gets into the top 6000 of the world amateur rankings first.

That would give him a plus handicap and make him  a very good club player.

People are anti-Dan because he is clueless, arrogant , ungrateful and dishonest.

Why will he become a PGATour player when there would be 20,000 14 year old whos, in 4 years time will be playing off plus handicaps? Of those 20,000, perhaps three or four will qualify for a spot in a tour event. Someone as good as Speith.

[RFKFREAK]

I am not sure why you are both so vigorously criticizing him. He might or he might not be a 'real' 3.1 handicap, he might or he might not talk as an 'accomplished' player would. I do not think either of you have met him (neither have I for that matter), so I am puzzled as to why you would be so anti-Dan (I have tried to think of a more appropriate word, but I hope you get the gist of it).  Personally, I don't think he is taking the route I would have taken, but then again, it is his route. The way I see it he is still walking in the general direction of his goal. It remains to be seen whether he makes it within 10k hours.

Part of it for me is that this started as an experiment to prove or disprove a theory. For someone like me who picked up the game a couple years ago and am in my thirties, it's intriguing and for him to not be completely honest with his handicap compromises the integrity of the experiment. From my understanding, the theory was misinterpreted, however, as he continue with the project, unless he's being truthful with his progress, his actions are quite dishonorable which also brings his character into question.

[Lihu]

Part of it for me is that this started as an experiment to prove or disprove a theory. For someone like me who picked up the game a couple years ago and am in my thirties, it's intriguing and for him to not be completely honest with his handicap compromises the integrity of the experiment.

From my understanding, the theory was misinterpreted, however, as he continue with the project, unless he's being truthful with his progress, his actions are quite dishonorable which also brings his character into question.

Right, it's called "fudging" data.

[RFKFREAK]

Right, it's called "fudging" data.

And as someone who loves numbers like I do, to me, it's deplorable.

[nevets88]

I'm curious - if you took say 20 instructors who really knew what they are doing and asked each one to define deliberate practice, what overlap and what differences there would be.

[Wittler]

Maybe I should invite him to come up to Washington to play Chambers bay with me and my playing partner (who is a legitimate 2 and plays decent tourney golf). I as an 11 struggle with Chambers. It would be interesting to see if he accepted for one and who's score he would be closer to, mine or Jake's... I also think it would be good to see how he compares to the pros who will be there this summer. If he is truly broke I might have to pay for him and give him a place to stay. Not sure if I could handle the guy for 24 hours.

[Pretzel]

Maybe I should invite him to come up to Washington to play Chambers bay with me and my playing partner (who is a legitimate 2 and plays decent tourney golf). I as an 11 struggle with Chambers. It would be interesting to see if he accepted for one and who's score he would be closer to, mine or Jake's... I also think it would be good to see how he compares to the pros who will be there this summer. If he is truly broke I might have to pay for him and give him a place to stay. Not sure if I could handle the guy for 24 hours.

If you paid his expenses I'm sure he'd love it. He likes taking trips.

As for the tournament funding issue, I call bullcrap on that. His Australia trip was paid for by the TV show, but his Switzerland trip was all him there as near as I can tell. If he can afford to fly out to Switzerland, he can afford to play in tournaments.

Also, he apparently has broken three shafts of his irons. I would guess that Dan must have quite the steep angle of attack, since they're all broken off at the head (they'd break at the kickpoint if he was loading the shaft too hard, which is near impossible). I'd be more worried about breaking my wrist on firm ground if I were him than on a root if his angle of attack is that steep.

He says it's not uncommon for KBS shafts to do that, which is also a lie. I've played KBS shafts on much firmer turf (Colorado is a desert compared to where he lives) with a higher swingspeed than him for multiple years and haven't had a single issue. I take decent sized divots, so it's not like I pick the ball or anything either.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a Dan hater now, but his dishonestly and ignorance are starting to grate on my nerves a little bit.

[Lihu]

I'm curious - if you took say 20 instructors who really knew what they are doing and asked each one to define deliberate practice, what overlap and what differences there would be.

That would be interesting, although the only ones I'm interested in are the 5SK answers. I already know what they would say.

Maybe I should invite him to come up to Washington to play Chambers bay with me and my playing partner (who is a legitimate 2 and plays decent tourney golf). I as an 11 struggle with Chambers. It would be interesting to see if he accepted for one and who's score he would be closer to, mine or Jake's... I also think it would be good to see how he compares to the pros who will be there this summer. If he is truly broke I might have to pay for him and give him a place to stay. Not sure if I could handle the guy for 24 hours.

Sounds like fun.

If you paid his expenses I'm sure he'd love it. He likes taking trips.

As for the tournament funding issue, I call bullcrap on that. His Australia trip was paid for by the TV show, but his Switzerland trip was all him there as near as I can tell. If he can afford to fly out to Switzerland, he can afford to play in tournaments.

Also, he apparently has broken three shafts of his irons. I would guess that Dan must have quite the steep angle of attack, since they're all broken off at the head (they'd break at the kickpoint if he was loading the shaft too hard, which is near impossible). I'd be more worried about breaking my wrist on firm ground if I were him than on a root if his angle of attack is that steep.

I would offer to only pay for his round and accommodations. Should still entice him to play.

[newtogolf]

If you paid his expenses I'm sure he'd love it. He likes taking trips.

As for the tournament funding issue, I call bullcrap on that. His Australia trip was paid for by the TV show, but his Switzerland trip was all him there as near as I can tell. If he can afford to fly out to Switzerland, he can afford to play in tournaments.

Also, he apparently has broken three shafts of his irons. I would guess that Dan must have quite the steep angle of attack, since they're all broken off at the head (they'd break at the kickpoint if he was loading the shaft too hard, which is near impossible). I'd be more worried about breaking my wrist on firm ground if I were him than on a root if his angle of attack is that steep.

He says it's not uncommon for KBS shafts to do that, which is also a lie. I've played KBS shafts on much firmer turf (Colorado is a desert compared to where he lives) with a higher swingspeed than him for multiple years and haven't had a single issue. I take decent sized divots, so it's not like I pick the ball or anything either.

Sorry if I'm coming off as a Dan hater now, but his dishonestly and ignorance are starting to grate on my nerves a little bit.

Overall I agree, Dan is either in denial or he's intentionally misleading people to make it appear he's still progressing towards his goal.

Dan reminds me of the friend or family member who always says they are on a diet and losing weight but never look any different.  At some point the truth catches up and in Dan's case the truth comes out in tournament play when he's under scrutiny to play by the rules of golf.

[Lihu]

Overall I agree, Dan is either in denial or he's intentionally misleading people to make it appear he's still progressing towards his goal.

Dan reminds me of the friend or family member who always says they are on a diet and losing weight but never look any different.  At some point the truth catches up and in Dan's case the truth comes out in tournament play when he's under scrutiny to play by the rules of golf.

Are you saying that if people don't play in tournaments that they don't always play by the rules?

[garybbq]

I don't think it's that Dan doesn't play by the rules, it's that he plays his home course possibly daily and only posts every 10th round or so to his index. If any golfer only posted their best rounds it's pretty easy to drop your cap.

[Lihu]

I don't think it's that Dan doesn't play by the rules, it's that he plays his home course possibly daily and only posts every 10th round or so to his index. If any golfer only posted their best rounds it's pretty easy to drop your cap.

The odds of him shooting that much lower than his handicap still seem pretty slim.

If I shoot 4 strokes better than my handicap it's because my putting is 36.2 and my index is 13.7, and if I have a good putting day I could sometimes end up with 32 putts for a 9 differential. His putting is at 29-30 putts. He has at most only a stroke or 2 to gain? That implies that for him to shoot 7-8 strokes below his index (estimating it at 10 with a target of 2-3) he would need to shoot 5-8 more GIR on that day than his normal 4-6.

I don't think the odds are that high?

[garybbq]

The odds of him shooting that much lower than his handicap still seem pretty slim.

If I shoot 4 strokes better than my handicap it's because my putting is 36.2 and my index is 13.7, and if I have a good putting day I could sometimes end up with 32 putts for a 9 differential. His putting is at 29-30 putts. He has at most only a stroke or 2 to gain? That implies that for him to shoot 7-8 strokes below his index (estimating it at 10 with a target of 2-3) he would need to shoot 5-8 more GIR on that day than his normal 4-6.

I don't think the odds are that high?

hmm I think you have that backwards?... I am saying that he posts every 10th round and as you said he happens to hit 5 - 8 more GIR then his usual. Then when he plays a tournament, plays a new course, plays in the rain, plays in wind etc. he shoots his usual if not less then say 4 GIR.

If he is only posting great days at his home course a tournament blowup is almost a guarantee.

[Lihu]

hmm I think you have that backwards?... I am saying that he posts every 10th round and as you said he happens to hit 5 - 8 more GIR then his usual. Then when he plays a tournament, plays a new course, plays in the rain, plays in wind etc. he shoots his usual if not less then say 4 GIR.

If he is only posting great days at his home course a tournament blowup is almost a guarantee.

I wasn't really clear.

What I meant to say is that he does not seem to have a lot of potential for strokes to be gained for those "great days". The odds of him having great days are less than 1:10 at least from my rough estimates.

[garybbq]

I wasn't really clear.

What I meant to say is that he does not seem to have a lot of potential for strokes to be gained for those "great days". The odds of him having great days are less than 1:10 at least from my rough estimates.

Ok, so you are saying:

- he is outright lying about his scores and posts a great day?

- he does not play by the rules and posts a great day?

[Lihu]

Ok, so you are saying:

- he is outright lying about his scores and posts a great day?

- he does not play by the rules and posts a great day?

IDK, but something doesn't add up.