Should the "Wind moves ball after putter is grounded" rule be changed?

[Zeph]

Webb Simpson suffered a penalty today, like Harrington some time ago, because wind moved the ball after he had grounded his putter on the green.

This situation comes up from time to time, and I think it's a stupid rule.

If the ball moves before you ground the club, you have to play it where it lies. If it moves after you ground the club, you are penalized. I think the rule should be changed. Ball replaced, no penalty. It is not an intentional move, you can never control it 100% (except if you hover the putter), and it give you no advantage as long as you have to move the ball back.

If you putt without grounding the putter, you are exempt from this problem. Nothing change when you ground the putter, you have still not touched the ball or started your stroke. The easiest way to solve this would probably be to define wind as an outside agency. If the wind blow a plastic bag which again move your ball, you are not penalized.

Some say you should just hover the putter in windy conditions, but that's easier said than done. If you are in the middle of a round and going good, you don't want to change your putting routine. A gust can suddenly move the ball, it may be sitting on the edge of a spike mark or something like that.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by Zeph

Nothing change when you ground the putter, you have still not touched the ball or started your stroke.

What's changed is, grounding the putter brings in the possibility of you having caused the ball to move. So you're going to have to change the rule that penalizes that as well, otherwise there will be arguments about whether the ball was moved by the player's actions, vs the wind or some other outside force.

I think the rule is fine as is.

[Texian]

That's why, although it takes a little extra time, you should mark your ball and replace it before every putt. That makes it less likely that it will move.

Simpson wasn't doing this on short putts even after the penalty.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by Texian

That's why, although it takes a little extra time, you should mark your ball and replace it before every putt. That makes it less likely that it will move.

Simpson wasn't doing this on short putts even after the penalty.

And/or simply don't ground the club.

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by Texian

That's why, although it takes a little extra time, you should mark your ball and replace it before every putt. That makes it less likely that it will move.

Simpson wasn't doing this on short putts even after the penalty.

How many do you see marking a 1-feet putt?

Like I said, hovering the putter can mess with your stroke if you're not used to it.

[zeg]

I think it's a case where it occasionally results in an "unfair" penalty, but the certainty of application (i.e., avoiding arguing over whether the wind caused it, or whether it was the ground shifting, etc) is more good than that is bad.

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by Texian

That's why, although it takes a little extra time, you should mark your ball and replace it before every putt. That makes it less likely that it will move.

Simpson wasn't doing this on short putts even after the penalty.

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

What's changed is, grounding the putter brings in the possibility of you having caused the ball to move. So you're going to have to change the rule that penalizes that as well, otherwise there will be arguments about whether the ball was moved by the player's actions, vs the wind or some other outside force.

I think the rule is fine as is.

Maybe amateurs do it on occasion, but my guess is that it is pretty rare that a pro actually causes a ball to move accidentally, especially on a green.  While I like clear and objective rules, I think I would prefer rules that help to promote faster play for routine situations rather than rules that may have to be interpreted once every blue moon- I know I certainly don't want to play behind a foursome that marks all their 1 foot putts.

[Shindig]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Maybe amateurs do it on occasion, but my guess is that it is pretty rare that a pro actually causes a ball to move accidentally, especially on a green.  While I like clear and objective rules, I think I would prefer rules that help to promote faster play for routine situations rather than rules that may have to be interpreted once every blue moon- I know I certainly don't want to play behind a foursome that marks all their 1 foot putts.

How much time do you suppose that takes?  I don't think the suggestion is "mark and wait," but rather that they should mark the ball, pick it up, put it down, and then step up and putt it.   I doubt it will affect how close to the group ahead of them they are, even if they're the only group on the course doing this.

[B-Con]

Webb Simpson suffered a penalty today, like Harrington some time ago, because wind moved the ball after he had grounded his putter on the green.

This situation comes up from time to time, and I think it's a stupid rule.

If the ball moves before you ground the club, you have to play it where it lies. If it moves after you ground the club, you are penalized. I think the rule should be changed. Ball replaced, no penalty. It is not an intentional move, you can never control it 100% (except if you hover the putter), and it give you no advantage as long as you have to move the ball back.

If you putt without grounding the putter, you are exempt from this problem. Nothing change when you ground the putter, you have still not touched the ball or started your stroke. The easiest way to solve this would probably be to define wind as an outside agency. If the wind blow a plastic bag which again move your ball, you are not penalized.

Some say you should just hover the putter in windy conditions, but that's easier said than done. If you are in the middle of a round and going good, you don't want to change your putting routine. A gust can suddenly move the ball, it may be sitting on the edge of a spike mark or something like that.

I think the rule only makes sense when you're not on the green, because you can disturb the ground behind the ball and cause the ball to move. On the green, a supposedly stable surface, I don't see how grounding a putter could cause the ball to move unless you leaned on it and compacted the ground behind the ball.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Zeph

How many do you see marking a 1-feet putt?

Like I said, hovering the putter can mess with your stroke if you're not used to it.

Emphasis added .

So maybe they should get used to it. It's not rocket science. Either don't ground the club or mark the ball.

[Texian]

Marking the ball, picking it up, and putting it down takes maybe five seconds.

[Kieran123]

This is the stupidest rule in golf....it moves half a cm and they get penalized?

They didn't touch the ball or have any effect on it's movement.

Needs to be changed.

[scv76]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

This is the stupidest rule in golf....it moves half a cm and they get penalized?

They didn't touch the ball or have any effect on it's movement.

Needs to be changed.

Agree 100%....penalize God instead

If I cause a ball to move that's different

[jamo]

Originally Posted by scv76

Agree 100%....penalize God instead

That might be a bit tough to enforce.

[Ignorant]

There are valid arguments for and against, that's for sure. On the other hand, these cases where wind moves the ball after address mainly concern professionals. We amateurs hardly ever play on such greens where it might happen, on the other hand we are the ones most likely to move our ball accidentally.

It is for sure this issue has been dealt with a number of times amongst those who make the Rules but so far no change has taken place. There must be reasons for that as well but it does not mean the Rule is as good as it could be. Changing the definition of address or similar to take away penalty on the green as suggested by one of the previous posters might be a good idea. It would put green and the rest of the course in a different position but there are already such things in the Rules. The only concern I have is if this kind of liberation would be abused. Would we end up on having vast discussions about whether 'Paddy's' or 'Simpson's' ball was moved by him or by the wind instead of discussing whether it moved at all?

All in all, these events are rare and it is perfectly allowed to learn how to address without grounding the club, so maybe the professional golfers should learn how to do it. Jack Nicklaus could learn it and play well, why not others?

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

All in all, these events are rare and it is perfectly allowed to learn how to address without grounding the club, so maybe the professional golfers should learn how to do it. Jack Nicklaus could learn it and play well, why not others?

Heck, I can learn to do it, too... Playing in heavy wind already requires adjustments that take a lot more skill than putting without grounding the putter, so I don't see it as an onerous burden.

[Zeph]

Originally Posted by zeg

Heck, I can learn to do it, too... Playing in heavy wind already requires adjustments that take a lot more skill than putting without grounding the putter, so I don't see it as an onerous burden.

Not a burden, and I could probably do it, but I'm thinking about tour pros playing for winning a tournament having to change their routing in the middle of the round. Marking the ball won't guarantee it won't move, so hovering the putter is the only option that guarantee it.

I'm sure it would not be a problem for them, but I just don't see the reasoning behind the rule. Especially since you can hover the club and not having to worry about the rule. Why then have the rule at all? I doubt a lot of people would start bumping their ball and claiming the wind did it, especially since you have to move the ball back anyways. No advantage gained whatsoever.

For me, it's not an issue, but I don't like seeing what happened to Simpson yesterday.

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

What's changed is, grounding the putter brings in the possibility of you having caused the ball to move. So you're going to have to change the rule that penalizes that as well, otherwise there will be arguments about whether the ball was moved by the player's actions, vs the wind or some other outside force.

I think the rule is fine as is.

I would agree, I understand the OP that hovering the putter my not be your style and could throw you off, but that is part of the uniqueness of golf.  No two lies are ever the same either, you have to adapt to the conditions, the more shots you have in your bag the better.  Very tough break to lose a tournament because of that, but that's what makes it such a wonderful game (or box of chocolates), you never know what will happen next.