Golf Losing Appeal

[Mattplusness]

The reason I like this game is because it is challenging, hard, and makes me focus. I don't know if I would play if it were that much easier...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I agree, as a high handicapper it's intimidating to go to a course on your own and become the 3rd or 4th, especially if they are much lower handicaps.  The one time I tried going alone last year was not very pleasant.  The other two guys were friends, and good golfers.  While they didn't say anything to me, I could tell they were not happy having a 3rd added to their party, especially one that wasn't very good.  It was a long day, and not much fun so I've not tried it again since.

That's why my brother stopped playing. It's tough to get a foursome together and he'd rather not play than be paired with strangers. I like playing with new people (new to me - not new to the game - that's not fun at all) so I kept playing. He'd probably like the course I joined, but ultimately there are just too many db's playing golf for his liking. It's not worth his time, money, or effort when there are so many other things to do in life.

PS. He can beat me with his old bag of 6 clubs so it's not a skill thing - if he'd ever taken a lesson or two he'd probably have been scratch

[Paradox]

My home course has a par 3 nine hole course(with enough shots to make a newcomer improve his game) and kids of all ages are welcome to go play on it.  It costs 6 bucks for adults(I think kids are 3 or free) and 10 to play it twice.  It takes about an hour to hour and a half to play depending on how many balls you hit and its great for those times you just wanna swing some clubs but don't have much time.

My course also doesn't pair singles but will mention that you're welcome to pair up with a group in front of you if they are just a twosome or something...only if you'd like.  Singles really don't bother the pace of play much at my course..the holes provide for pretty good flow and a single will run away from any group as long as they know how to play at all.  Even with a moderately filled course, I've played as a single in 2 1/2 hours before...including some waiting on groups before I was let through.

It is intimidating to be a single and go with a group of strangers but I've been on both ends enough times to know that theres nothing you can ever do thats embarassing.  I've played with some of the worst and some pretty good players, too.  It usually ends up feeling like a round with a friend "Nice shot!" "Go in! Go in!" and all the pressure is taken off.  Course I live in Kentucky and people have some respect and hospitality for the most part :p

[darkhunter139]

Originally Posted by Paradox

My home course has a par 3 nine hole course(with enough shots to make a newcomer improve his game) and kids of all ages are welcome to go play on it.  It costs 6 bucks for adults(I think kids are 3 or free) and 10 to play it twice.  It takes about an hour to hour and a half to play depending on how many balls you hit and its great for those times you just wanna swing some clubs but don't have much time.

My course also doesn't pair singles but will mention that you're welcome to pair up with a group in front of you if they are just a twosome or something...only if you'd like.  Singles really don't bother the pace of play much at my course..the holes provide for pretty good flow and a single will run away from any group as long as they know how to play at all.  Even with a moderately filled course, I've played as a single in 2 1/2 hours before...including some waiting on groups before I was let through.

It is intimidating to be a single and go with a group of strangers but I've been on both ends enough times to know that theres nothing you can ever do thats embarassing.  I've played with some of the worst and some pretty good players, too.  It usually ends up feeling like a round with a friend "Nice shot!" "Go in! Go in!" and all the pressure is taken off.  Course I live in Kentucky and people have some respect and hospitality for the most part :p

My course does not pair singles in the afternoon either (Not sure about the morning I don't like getting up early to play haha).  I usually like to stay as a single though just because most people will let me play through.  If I go at like 2 PM I can usually finish my round in three hours.  I have finished in like 2 and a half hours before when I was hitting it well too.

Another thing that hurts the game I think is how much clubs and other gear costs, there are some decent options out there if you are on a budget but not a lot of people know about them.  I feel like most people think they are going to have to spend over $500 on clubs and $40 for every dozen balls they get.

[ochmude]

You guys are lucky you can get on in the afternoons.  All the courses in my area run leagues in the afternoons 5 days a week and will not let singles on at all.

[Kieran123]

Another thing that may or may not help is the likes of AK, Rickie Fowler etc stepping up and starting to win.

No offense to recent winners of events, but if a younger guy wins who appeals to the youth, then I think it would be better for the younger generation as they may see that golf is 'cool' and young guys like AK and RF who are similar to a lot of youth today play the game and be successful within it.

[Bigtank]

Originally Posted by darkhunter139

People have been saying that for centuries. I don't know why but it really bothers me when I hear people blame "today's youth" for things like this.

I actually blaming the the individuals raising "today's youth" (Remember I am only 30).  We are teaching them if the rules are too hard...change them.  If you cant make a three foot putt, its not you that needs work, its the rules.  6" cup fine, then you will have people scoring in the 50's, then someone will suggest it be 12" wide...its a slippery slope.

I think we need to come to realization that some of us will not be a 5, 10 or even a 20 handicap and just be ok with that.  Why must we change the rules to accomidate those that can't?  I will never be able to dunk a basketball, its not the fact that I'm 6'4" and 275lbs, its that the rim is too darn high.  Let change the rules....9 foot basket so we can dunk too!

We need to realize that just because "we put our mind to it" does not mean we can accomplish anything...plain and simple!  My brother with special needs can not be president, no matter how hard he tries...is it fair that someone can play golf better than you or I, who knows, but it is just the way it is!

[newtogolf]

Part of what attracted me to racquetball, long distance running and now golf is that they aren't typically team sports, aren't easy to be good at, and have some level of strategy to them.  Anyone can "run" or swing a club or racquet, but to get to the point where you're competitive requires education, practice, training, practice and did I mention practice ;).  What I enjoy most is reaping the benefits and rewards of hard work and dedication.

Originally Posted by Bigtank

I actually blaming the the individuals raising "today's youth" (Remember I am only 30).  We are teaching them if the rules are too hard...change them.  If you cant make a three foot putt, its not you that needs work, its the rules.  6" cup fine, then you will have people scoring in the 50's, then someone will suggest it be 12" wide...its a slippery slope.

I think we need to come to realization that some of us will not be a 5, 10 or even a 20 handicap and just be ok with that.  Why must we change the rules to accomidate those that can't?  I will never be able to dunk a basketball, its not the fact that I'm 6'4" and 275lbs, its that the rim is too darn high.  Let change the rules....9 foot basket so we can dunk too!

We need to realize that just because "we put our mind to it" does not mean we can accomplish anything...plain and simple!  My brother with special needs can not be president, no matter how hard he tries...is it fair that someone can play golf better than you or I, who knows, but it is just the way it is!

[Yuri Gadow]

What struck me when I took up golf a few years ago: new golfers are seen by courses and some players as a problem to be fixed on a good day, and as a pain in the proverbial on a bad. At the time I took up golf I was also learning rock climbing and remember the contrast very clearly. Every week I'd go to a course or range and feel a pretty icy breeze or to an instructor and just feel lost. I'd go the local climbing spots and people would come over and encourage me, offer the occasional bit of wisdom, tell me about climbing etiquette, or knots, etc.

Today if someone asked me for advice on how they could try out and/or learn golf, I'd have to shrug—I don't know of any friendly way to learn what golf is, how to play it, and just how to get going as a (temporary) outsider and I know none of my golf partners do either. I do know of pro's who can dive right into some great swing analysis, but some way to learn how to get around the course at a pace that's fun for you and the people behind you, to learn how to become part of and enjoy the culture? No. Does every other sport I do have that either formally or informally? Yes. (Mountain biking, scuba diving, soaring, rock climbing, mountaineering, and trail running.)

I'd guess problems experienced golfers face now have little much of an impact on industry revenues; churn is always present and I haven't seen numbers (yet anyway) saying that regular golfers are leaving the sport in significantly higher numbers today than yesterday. If that 90 million in the article has the same basis as most I see in the industry, e.g., "have you ever tried golf? do you play now?," I wouldn't consider it representative of regular golfers departing but of people who try to get into golf and walk (or run) away because it's hard and there's nothing but our own stubborness to help us get through the first year or two of confusion and cold shoulders.

In other words, I'd guess it's a decrease in golfers trying and then sticking around that's hurting—emphasis on guess. How we could improve that situation that is a very interesting question—I love the experience of a good round and wish people could find ways access that enjoyment without having to go uphill both ways.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

That's why my brother stopped playing. It's tough to get a foursome together and he'd rather not play than be paired with strangers.

And this is another problem; I find it far easier getting out for any other activity than to get four people into a good (and available) tee time for two or four hours of being unavailable to the world. This at least is getting some attention because technology can help with these kinds of coordination and networking problems; I've started Teeboxer to work on solutions for this (though it's by no means a silver bullet...yet) and other tech startups are cropping up with related tools. But, for the biggest bang for buck in increasing the regular, happy player base: I'd still put my money on making golf a more accessible activity, culturally speaking, than changing the rules or other ways of helping people already playing have better scores.

[sean_miller]

Adding golf to the Olympics, at least until the corporate cash cow comes crashing down (2nd world countries try to put on a good show for the world by using tons of public money to build venues that will never be used again - I digress), might help get kids get involved. Why? Parents of children with questionable athletic ability (slow foot speed, throws like a girl, balance issues, non-existent hand-eye coordination) like gold medals too!! Once they realize it's not as easy as it looks, it'll trend down again.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by Bigtank

I actually blaming the the individuals raising "today's youth" (Remember I am only 30).  We are teaching them if the rules are too hard...change them.  If you cant make a three foot putt, its not you that needs work, its the rules.  6" cup fine, then you will have people scoring in the 50's, then someone will suggest it be 12" wide...its a slippery slope.

I think we need to come to realization that some of us will not be a 5, 10 or even a 20 handicap and just be ok with that.  Why must we change the rules to accomidate those that can't?  I will never be able to dunk a basketball, its not the fact that I'm 6'4" and 275lbs, its that the rim is too darn high.  Let change the rules....9 foot basket so we can dunk too!

We need to realize that just because "we put our mind to it" does not mean we can accomplish anything...plain and simple!  My brother with special needs can not be president, no matter how hard he tries...is it fair that someone can play golf better than you or I, who knows, but it is just the way it is!

I agree with the "today's youth part," but I disagree with the second and third paragraphs. While it's true that you can't do something just by putting your mind to it, I think most people could be pretty darn good at golf by putting a little time and money into it. Of course there are exceptions, like your brother in the case of running for president, but I think the vast majority could be decent at golf. It just takes a lot of time and some money to do so. But if you don't have the time or the money, unfortunately, golf isn't going to be very fun. I think that's the big sticking point. I don't think it's a problem of the "ends" being wrong, it's a problem of not having the "means" to achieve those ends. How to fix that I have no idea.

[LankyLefty]

Being a 0-5 hcp is something I really believe anyone can do with unlimited time, money and resources. Not many people have this however. But in reality it doesn't take much to do somewhat well on most courses. Lengthen those courses to pro levels, grow out the rough and make the greens fast like concrete and that 0-5 quickly rises but on most local public courses a 0-5 is not out of reach for anyone with the time and resources. Golf is meant to be hard that why you keep coming back because you think back to those good shots you hit and think.. if i could do that every time imagine how good Id be.

I agree everything in golf is far too expensive.

I agree that in very busy places newcomers are treated as a nuisance but In others that are less busy newcomers are very much welcomed and encouraged.

I don't agree that golf is in decline. Really everything that is expensive and expendable is going to see decline because people do not have as much disposable income at the moment. That doesn't mean the sport is in decline it means peoples leisure expenditures are in decline and golf as well as many other premium priced but far from essential activities.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by iacas

Golf would not be in quite the dire straits it's in if people simply played more quickly. Courses could charge less, rounds would not take as long, you could play more golf, and so on.

There are many reasons why pace of play is so damn slow, but if there's one thing that's hurting golf, my money's on "pace of play" as a whole.

Pretty much it. The owners of the course I play on have low green fees which they make up for by having a high volume of players. It's done like this: wide open fairways, so your ball is pretty much in play off the tee wherever you hit it; no fairway bunkers; easy routing and tees close to greens; marshals who, in a friendly way, help slow players move along. The course is longer than most (6,400 yards from the white tees), which discourages beer-drinkers who happen to own a set of golf clubs. They schedule groups pretty tightly, too. The first and tenth tees are never clear for very long. This course is doing very well financially, and didn't suffer a bit during the downturn of 2008-2009. This isn't a simple course, by the way. It's easy to hit fairways and you almost always have a view of the green wherever your tee ball ends up (which also speeds up play). If you miss the green, though, it's hard to get up and down.

As for slow players, I find that the guys I play with who, like me, started when they were kids play a lot faster than people who started as adults. In a nutshell, we have a sense of golf that most late-comers don't. I don't know what you can do about that. I recently crawled around the course with a friend of mine who started playing in his late 40s. We played 18 holes in 4 1/4 hours, a twosome, and he thought that was pretty good. I said I thought we should have been around in 3 1/2 hours, 3:45 tops, and he looked like I had insulted him.

I think another thing that's hurting golf is that it's truly a hard game to play. Learning to hit a golf ball effectively and often takes a lot of work and perseverance. Our culture is built less and less on things that require a long-tern commitment with a slow learning curve. I don't know how many people give up because of that.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by jamo

I agree with the "today's youth part," but I disagree with the second and third paragraphs. While it's true that you can't do something just by putting your mind to it, I think most people could be pretty darn good at golf by putting a little time and money into it. Of course there are exceptions, like your brother in the case of running for president, but I think the vast majority could be decent at golf. It just takes a lot of time and some money to do so. But if you don't have the time or the money, unfortunately, golf isn't going to be very fun. I think that's the big sticking point. I don't think it's a problem of the "ends" being wrong, it's a problem of not having the "means" to achieve those ends. How to fix that I have no idea.

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

Being a 0-5 hcp is something I really believe anyone can do with unlimited time, money and resources. Not many people have this however. But in reality it doesn't take much to do somewhat well on most courses. Lengthen those courses to pro levels, grow out the rough and make the greens fast like concrete and that 0-5 quickly rises but on most local public courses a 0-5 is not out of reach for anyone with the time and resources. Golf is meant to be hard that why you keep coming back because you think back to those good shots you hit and think.. if i could do that every time imagine how good Id be.

I agree everything in golf is far too expensive.

I agree that in very busy places newcomers are treated as a nuisance but In others that are less busy newcomers are very much welcomed and encouraged.

I don't agree that golf is in decline. Really everything that is expensive and expendable is going to see decline because people do not have as much disposable income at the moment. That doesn't mean the sport is in decline it means peoples leisure expenditures are in decline and golf as well as many other premium priced but far from essential activities.

If you don't have decent hand eye coordination you will typically struggle with golf and reach a wall. I mean look at most of the tour players all of them are tremendous athletes in general and have amazing hand eye coordination. Even if you have a lot of time and money it's very difficult to get every part of the game down some people have the power but no short game or vice versa. Plus the mental aspect wears some people down more than others so it's certainly more than just time and money. Now I'm not saying that people won't improve from lessons and practice but to say anyone could get below a 10 handicap is a big reach.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Adding golf to the Olympics, at least until the corporate cash cow comes crashing down (2nd world countries try to put on a good show for the world by using tons of public money to build venues that will never be used again - I digress), might help get kids get involved. Why? Parents of children with questionable athletic ability (slow foot speed, throws like a girl, balance issues, non-existent hand-eye coordination) like gold medals too!! Once they realize it's not as easy as it looks, it'll trend down again.

LMAO

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by LankyLefty

Being a 0-5 hcp is something I really believe anyone can do with unlimited time, money and resources. Not many people have this however. But in reality it doesn't take much to do somewhat well on most courses. Lengthen those courses to pro levels, grow out the rough and make the greens fast like concrete and that 0-5 quickly rises but on most local public courses a 0-5 is not out of reach for anyone with the time and resources.

Well, I don't think you need unlimited of anything, just some ability, time, money, and a whole lot of desire can get some into single digits. Some will never get there regardless of who their instructor is. Course rating and slope make it possible to be a 5 at an easy muni shooting a 74 while that same 5 may only need an 84 on a Tour Track. I believe the tougher the slope the harder it is for the higher cap, not the lower cap, in relation to par.

[Ringworld]

Keep it simple just speed play.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by Ringworld

Keep it simple just speed play.

I think that, as the last hundred years of experience have shown us, that's much easier said than done. Unfortunately.