Tiger Faces "Failed Legacy"

[ND Fan]

Quote:

Tiger cheated on his wife, he didn't kill anyone, engage in a high speed chase while driving a white Explorer, rob a bank or blow up a building.  It's news now because Tiger was/is an icon and the media enjoys "exposing" such people to the public because it makes them money.  Babe Ruth was a drunk and womanizer, but 50 years later he's placed on a pedestal and everyone cried foul when Barry Bonds broke his record along with Aarons.  Chamberlin claims to have slept with over 20,000 women but is mostly remembered for being one of the greatest centers in basketball.   Most sports legends of the past weren't angels, but today, most are remembered for their accomplishments within their sport, not their failures as a human being.

I wouldn't excuse any of their behavior.  Tiger is an exception because his outing was the begining of his downfall and it was entirely his own doing.  Hard to argue that poor personal choices lead to his current slide down the ranks.

[newtogolf]

Sorry, wrong Ford.... as for the killing part, there was a "," not an "and" between the two intentionally.  Thanks

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Just to set the record straight, O.J. wasn't driving the Explorer Bronco. The killing part, well.........................

[newtogolf]

I checked wikipedia as well, you really want to compare those names to Tiger Woods?  I never said Tiger was the first African American to play golf, I stated he changed the stereotype, big difference.

Originally Posted by ND Fan

Wow?!

Lee Elder, Calvin Peete, Vijay Singh,  and a several others, Ever heard of these guys?

Racism in golf doesn't exist any more does it?  No more than it does in the NBA.  If you have the skills and the ability to play you get in, skin color is no longer a factor and I am not old enough to know a time when it was.  I have been playing for 30 years.

Here's a little African American history in golf...

1896 - John Shippen became the first black to play in the U.S. Open. He began the second day of the event tied for first place!  He had a disastrous stroke of luck that began when his drive landed in a sand trap. He took eleven strokes to complete the 13th hole!

1899 - Dr. George Grant - Invented the golf tee, it was the first to be registered by the US Patent office. But, the prominent Boston dentist never marketed his invention. Twenty-five years later, a white golfer patented a tee, marketed it, and was credited with the invention.

*date un clear - Ann Gregory is reputed to be the first black woman to enter a USGA event.*date un clear -under research.

1925 - George Adams became a founding member of the United Golf Association.

1934 - In search of information about 'James "Pat" Ball'?

1935 - Women's Eastern Champion -Rhonda Fowler was a pioneering black woman golfer.

1946 - Bill Powell designs and opens Clearview G.C.

1948 - Theodore "Rags" Rhodes, Bill Spiller and Madison Gunther filed a civil lawsuit against the PGA, for civil rights violations. The PGA changes to an 'invitation only" format to avoid its legal and moral obligations to let these black men play in the PGA tournaments. But by standing up and taking a stance these men made significant in-roads and gained empathy for the movement.

1950 - Ann Gregory wins the National UGA Tournament in Washington, D.C., she won a total of six championships of the seven tournaments that she entered.

1954 - Harold Dunovant turned pro and was one of the first black golfers to attend the PGA Business School in Long Beach, California. He is the head pro at Minorcas Golf Course in Winston Salem and the founder of the National Black Golfers Hall of Fame.

1956-  Ann Gregory  becomes the first African American to enter the U.S. Amateur Championship held in Indianapolis, Indiana.

1962 - Charlie Sifford becomes the first African American PGA Tour member.

1963 - Althea Gibson broke the color line, and as it is well documented was highly successful as a tennis professional.

1964 - Pete Brown Win's the Waco Open.

1966 - Ben Davis was admitted to the Michigan PGA.

1967 - Renee Powell Joined the LPGA Tour and was a active competitor for 13 years. Now She works with the golfing industry promoting minority golf and running Clearview Golf Course founded by her father.

1968 - Ben Davis becomes the first Black head Golf Course Pro at Rackham Golf Course in Detroit, MI.

1975 - Lee Elder becomes the first black to play at the Masters Tournament at Augusta National.

1979 - Lee Elder played on the U.S. Ryder Cup Team

1991 - First Black member of Augusta National admitted.

1997 - Eldrick " Tiger" Woods becomes the first African-American Masters Champion

[Harmonious]

Rather than seen as a "loser" or a "failure", Tiger may be seen as a "what might have been, if not...".  For many years, he was the odds-on favorite to win every tournament he entered.  His winning percentage was higher than anyone, past or present (I believe, but I could be wrong). At 34, he had reached the absolute peak of his career.  His future looked to be a continuation of his past. And yet, now he may never win again, due to injury and/or dubious personal flaws.

If his downfall was due only to injury, like Hogan, he would be seen in a more sympathetic light, and definitely not as a failure.  But he spectacularly failed to live up to his corporate-manufactured public image, which removes any sympathy that many people may have had (I'll put myself in that category as well).   Regardless whether he passes Nicklaus or not, I will always view that as a failure,

[Deryck Griffith]

97 Professional Wins

71 wins on the PGA Tour - 3rd all time, 2 behind Jack who has 73 and Tiger SHOULD pass that.

14 majors - 2nd all time

Won 3 majors in one year

Career Slam

38 win on the European Tour - 3rd all time (not a ful time member on that tour)

Dominated Amateur Golf

Dominted NCAA Golf

Money Leader 9 times and single handedly raised tournament purses for all PGA Tour tournaments with his presence

Vardon Trophy winner 8 times

Rookie of the Year Winner

PGA Player of the year, 10 times

PGA TOUR player of the year, 10 times

Byron Nelson Award winner 9 times

Failed Legacy?  Are you kidding me????????

What's with people and their convenient short memories these days???

[bplewis24]

Only 10 player of the year awards?  Pffft...

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

97 Professional Wins

71 wins on the PGA Tour - 3rd all time, 2 behind Jack who has 73 and Tiger SHOULD pass that.

14 majors - 2nd all time

Won 3 majors in one year

Career Slam

38 win on the European Tour - 3rd all time (not a ful time member on that tour)

Dominated Amateur Golf

Dominted NCAA Golf

Money Leader 9 times and single handedly raised tournament purses for all PGA Tour tournaments with his presence

Vardon Trophy winner 8 times

Rookie of the Year Winner

PGA Player of the year, 10 times

PGA TOUR player of the year, 10 times

Byron Nelson Award winner 9 times

Failed Legacy?  Are you kidding me????????

What's with people and their convenient short memories these days???

People focus too much on that, and somehow forget the rest....I don't know why....ignorance maybe

[bplewis24]

On a serious note, can anybody dig up some other lower profile statistics like % of cuts made and consecutive cuts?  Isn't that one of his most dominating statistics in a historical perspective?

What about top 10 finishes?

Brandon

[ochmude]

168 top 10 finishes on the PGA Tour according to pgatour.com

[Zwick]

Woods played in 14 PGA Tour events from 1992-1996 as an amateur. In this span, he made 5 cuts, with his best finish and sole top-25 performance coming at the 1996 British Open. This brings his total tally of PGA Tour events played to 271, his total number of cuts made to 254, and his total number of top-25 finishes to 222.

(source Wikipedia)

If you don't count the events as an amateur, he played 257 and made 249 cuts --> ~97% of cuts made, 86% in the top-25

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

On a serious note, can anybody dig up some other lower profile statistics like % of cuts made and consecutive cuts?  Isn't that one of his most dominating statistics in a historical perspective?

What about top 10 finishes?

Brandon

Is Jane Blalock (sp?) a better all time player than Annika Sorenstam? I think she has the consecutinve cuts record (going off sketchy memory).

Anyway, you could think of 100 different ways to prove Tiger is the best player of his generation by a mile and probably zero ways to prove he isn't. This isn't an Orr versus Gretzky versus Brodeur debate. Tiger played the same position as all his contemporaries and dominated them every way imaginable.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Is Jane Blalock (sp?) a better all time player than Annika Sorenstam? I think she has the consecutinve cuts record (going off sketchy memory).

Anyway, you could think of 100 different ways to prove Tiger is the best player of his generation by a mile and probably zero ways to prove he isn't. This isn't an Orr versus Gretzky versus Brodeur debate. Tiger played the same position as all his contemporaries and dominated them every way imaginable.

I have no idea who she is, but it's clear you're isolating the statistic.  On it's own, consecutive cuts made means nothing regarding greatness.  But in context, Tiger was untouchable at his best, often the best when he was just "good", and still competitive when he was "off."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that even the golden-era greats missed significantly more cuts on their "off" weeks.

Brandon

[Kieran123]

I think Tiger had a 40% chance of winning when he was in his prime.

[golfchief]

If Tigers injury keeps him from golfing at the level he expects and get back to winning majors he will end up being known as another Ken Venturee, career ended by injury. Could've been the all time greatest. IF.

[LankyLefty]

To me Tiger's legacy is that of the most dominant golfer in history. No one else has ever for their period of greatness been as dominant as Tiger was.

Nicklaus was dominant for stretches but I think what he is remembered for more then anything is his longevity and consistency. Their are multiple generations of people with fond memories of Nicklaus doing something amazing and dramatic.

Hogan was great dominant even but as time has gone by, be it because of sympathy to how his career ended or respect for his teaching material, I feel like hes been turned into a superhuman figure in many people's minds. In reality he was a really really good golfer for a stretch not very much longer then Tiger was but not nearly as dominant as tiger over that time.

There are a smattering of other figures who were great for stretches but Never before has there been a guy in golf who has bordered on automatic. No one who you could blindly pick as your winner and perhaps be right more times then not. No one who had the leader looking over his shoulder when he was up 7 shots on Sunday. That is the Tiger I remember not the sad figure hes become as his body begins to fail him and his mental game goes to shambles, all with the whole world expecting him to magically become what he once was. He could be good again, he could be great again, or he could retire tomorrow and in my mind his legacy as arguably the greatest golfer ever is secure.

[BunkerBuster]

1 woman people understand. 8 that we know of including porn stars, strippers and hookers? Give me a break. The guy is a scumbag.

[B-Con]

1 woman people understand. 8 that we know of including porn stars, strippers and hookers? Give me a break. The guy is a scumbag.

I agree that he's a scumbag, but whether that will taint his legacy is unknown. I still think that it will largely depend on how his game does or doesn't rebound. When a player exits their era of glory, it's hard to shake whatever it was that brought them out, especially it if brought them crashing down in flames in front of the whole world. He'll always be remembered for being a tremendously great golfer, but I think the question is how favorably he'll be remembered.

[LankyLefty]

Many people are scumbags but that doesn't stop them from being great athletes, businessmen, politicians, presidents ect. ect.

Ty Cobb's baseball legacy hasn't been too tainted over the fact he was a flg flying KKK member and was rumored to have participated in multiple lynchings....