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tiger 2000 vs rory 2011


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Okay, its Continent vs Continent, sport isnt about individuals at all . I'm glad europe is dominating in soccer and asia is dominating in badminton and africa in running. Thank god it's not about individuals or teams, then one couldn't live out chauvinistic feelings...

And to bring economics into this, brilliant!

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Do you mean like "PGA v. European Tour", "the US Dollar v. the Euro", or "Team USA v. Team Europe in the Ryder Cup"? Yeah, no connection whatsover.



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I don't get it. How is Rory ahead of Tiger? Tiger won the Masters at 21, Rory wins the US Open at 22? Tiger had 5 victories in 1997, Rory is at 1 (year is not over). I think we forget how dominate Tiger was, and I was only 12 at this time. Every tournament, it was expected that Tiger would win. It's not like golfers weren't good then; he was just that good. It's interesting though, that he's only 2 victories behind Jack for all time wins (snead 12 ahead), but idk if he's gonna pass Jack :(

  • So, there's a mere 12 months difference between the two guys winning their 1st Major
  • Woods did his at The Masters with 70-66-65-69, -18 beating the field by 12 shots...McIlroy did his at The US Open with 65-66-68-69, -16 beating the field by 8 shots
  • At that time, April '97, Woods had only won 3 times, McIlroy had 2 victories prior to the US Open
  • A counter-argument can be made whether the field at Augusta '97 was stronger/deeper than that at Congressional '11, and...whether or not that particular course setup- played harder


I think the comparison with Woods' 2000 victory at US Open Pebble Beach is disproportinate because he another 2 years on the tour, had amassed a few more titles (inc. 2 further Majors) - and so it's easy to say: "Pebble Beach was more impressive than Congressional because..."

The acid-test is whether Rors can keep a similar momentum going between now and say, US Open at Merion in 2013

If he'd only won this US Open by say, 2 shots, I'd say his victory was like any other recently: Schwartzel, Kaymer, McDowell, Oosthuizen, etc...but fact is, he took that course apart like no-one could do.....except Woods.

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Going back to the original post which I believe was referring to their SWINGS NOT their ACHIEVEMENTS: Mark O'Meara played two rounds with Rory at the Dubai Desert Classic in January 2009 BEFORE Rory had won anything on tour. From what I've read Mark O'Meara is a close friend of Tiger, or certainly was at the time, so I have to assume he had no reason to "talk down" Tiger. He said of McIlroy, "Ball striking wise at 19, he's probably better than what Tiger was at 19. His technique I think is better. Certainly Tiger has developed his game and swing over the years and made modifications to be able to hit the ball pin high, but Rory is already a step ahead." I don't know if that counts for anything, but I guess the question now is has Rory improved since 2009? I've watched him at in the flesh at three Tournaments and an extra one at the opening of a Gary Player course where he was just messing around. The guy is exceptional. It's the effortlessness that stands out more than anything. Tiger (my favorite golfer by the way) has a swing which I would not call effortless. I know this is subjective. But at times Tiger finishes out of balance which I'm yet to see from Rory.
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You're correct but the title of the thread would seem to invite comparisons of the performances of the two golfers in their respective wins.  Both of which were remarkable.

I have to say though that I don't understand the comments about it being more difficult to separate yourself from the field on an easier/more difficult course.  Since everyone plays the same course I would think for purposes strokes separation of the winner from the "first loser" course difficulty (or lack of)  isn't really relevant.  Although course difficulty certainly does make a difference in what the absolute scores are relative to par.

Originally Posted by Dabbler

Going back to the original post which I believe was referring to their SWINGS NOT their ACHIEVEMENTS:



Butch

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Originally Posted by RichF

Quote:

So, there's a mere 12 months difference between the two guys winning their 1st Major

Woods did his at The Masters with 70-66-65-69, -18 beating the field by 12 shots...McIlroy did his at The US Open with 65-66-68-69, -16 beating the field by 8 shots

At that time, April '97, Woods had only won 3 times, McIlroy had 2 victories prior to the US Open

A counter-argument can be made whether the field at Augusta '97 was stronger/deeper than that at Congressional '11, and...whether or not that particular course setup- played harder

I think the comparison with Woods' 2000 victory at US Open Pebble Beach is disproportinate because he another 2 years on the tour, had amassed a few more titles (inc. 2 further Majors) - and so it's easy to say: "Pebble Beach was more impressive than Congressional because..."

The acid-test is whether Rors can keep a similar momentum going between now and say, US Open at Merion in 2013

If he'd only won this US Open by say, 2 shots, I'd say his victory was like any other recently: Schwartzel, Kaymer, McDowell, Oosthuizen, etc...but fact is, he took that course apart like no-one could do.....except Woods.

Louis won by 7 shots.  People have forgotten that so fast its pretty ridiculous.  He absolutely destroyed St. Andrews as well with a great golf swing and amazing driving.

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Tiger was definitely more dominant if you are comparing overall between the two tournaments. That is not to take anything away from Rory this past weekend, because he definitely dominated as well. But I believe the only stat you have to look at in comparing is the fact that Tiger was the only person under par at Pebble. It clearly played exponentially harder then Congressional did this past week. Rory still did indeed blow the doors off the entire field, but because of the fact that so many golfers would have been in the hunt if he wasn't so dialed in, it doesn't make it as dominating. I mean heck, Jason Day took 2nd place at -8 (I think that is correct) which would have won EVERY US OPEN but two (the two we are talking about).

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I inquired about when Rory turned pro in another thread ... but in 2000, Woods had been a pro approx. 4 yrs (turned pro in 1996).  Rory turned pro in 2007, so 2011 is similarly about 4 years after he turned pro. Are my facts wrong?

Originally Posted by RichF

Quote:

True - but the mistake you (and many others) are making is that you're all forgetting that at the time of Woods' Pebble Beach win, he already had 2 Majors in the bag, had 2 more years on tour and was 25 years old.

The point I made was that McIlroy, at the time of his 1st win yesterday, is far ahead of Woods at the time of Augusta '97...which, is where the comparison has to be made.



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I don't really think you can compare the time taken since turning pro though. Rory turned pro young to gain experience, Tiger gained experience before turning pro.

Originally Posted by topspin4hand

I inquired about when Rory turned pro in another thread ... but in 2000, Woods had been a pro approx. 4 yrs (turned pro in 1996).  Rory turned pro in 2007, so 2011 is similarly about 4 years after he turned pro. Are my facts wrong?



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I hear you, but the person I was replying to was using the time as a pro as the basis of their point ...

Btw, I looked at a YouTube video of Tiger's swing during the 1996 US Amateur (1 year before his 1st major win) and if you compare that to Rory's swing last year (1 year before his first major win) then Rory is LIGHT YEARS ahead of Tiger at that point. But as I said before, we'll have to see whether Rory's beautiful swing consistently holds up under pressure week in and out.  Tiger was killing fields week in and out. Very little let up (hence his crazy cuts made streak). We know Rory has a game comparable to Tiger, the fun part will be watching the young lad over the years to see whether he has Tiger's (or Jack's) will to dominate week in and out.

Originally Posted by deasy55

I don't really think you can compare the time taken since turning pro though. Rory turned pro young to gain experience, Tiger gained experience before turning pro.



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Originally Posted by laconic517

Louis won by 7 shots.  People have forgotten that so fast its pretty ridiculous.  He absolutely destroyed St. Andrews as well with a great golf swing and amazing driving.


Very true, but he did get a break on the Friday when the wind blew everyone's game out of contention.

I guess all players/teams who have won the tournaments which define the very peak of their sporting profession have done so by a bit of luck.

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Originally Posted by RichF

If he'd only won this US Open by say, 2 shots, I'd say his victory was like any other recently: Schwartzel, Kaymer, McDowell, Oosthuizen, etc...but fact is, he took that course apart like no-one could do.....except Woods.


Tony Jacklin did something very very similar in the 1970 US Open.  He was -7 and the next guy was even par - a one shot difference in winning margin compared to Rory.

But then again, what the hell do I know?

Rich - in name only

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Originally Posted by arogolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Sorry - Rory is not close to the level Tiger was.

Tiger dominated. Rory has won once on the PGA Tour thus far. Tiger in 200 was on the brink of the Tiger Slam.

Sorry, no comparison IMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnDG7xeBlSw

2:22 in you can see a pretty smooth swing

and we can;t forget Tiger's ability to produce shots out of the worst possible situations. Tiger shot -12 on a tougher course where no other player broke par. Congressional is no doubt tough, but look at all the players with rounds in the 60's.

2000 US Open was the most dominating accomplishment by a golfer in recent history

Don't get me wrong, Rory is talented as hell. But not comparable yet.

What everyone witnessed in the Tiger era is extremely rare, and it would be a unrealistic to think we already have another player of that standard right now

I was talking more about the natural effort of his swing. Tiger is one of the greatest ever, but he swung so hard he destroyed his leg. Rory was blasting it by mickelson without even trying.



Doesn't Rory suffer from lower back issues?

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I think he has had issues, but not sure if its a direct effect from his swing. At least I have not heard that to be the case. It would be a tragedy if it slowed him down, I for one hope he dominates at the british....

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I think he has had issues, but not sure if its a direct effect from his swing. At least I have not heard that to be the case. It would be a tragedy if it slowed him down, I for one hope he dominates at the british....

I've heard that it's due to the little hip jerk he does around impact with his longer clubs (5 iron and longer).

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Originally Posted by RichF

Quote:

If he'd only won this US Open by say, 2 shots, I'd say his victory was like any other recently: Schwartzel, Kaymer, McDowell, Oosthuizen, etc...but fact is, he took that course apart like no-one could do.....except Woods.



If he won by 2 I wouldn't compare it to McDowell's win.  McDowell was basically handed the trophy.

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