Quitting? Serious advice wanted.

[Jason86]

This being my first post I hope I'm not coming across sounding like a jerk, but how much do you really know about the golf swing?  I know you said you have taken numerous lessons so my guess is that you would have somewhat of a good understanding giving that your instructors are giving you proper solutions versus quick fixes.  If you don't I would suggest reading Jim Mclean's 8 Step Swing.  Personally, I think anyone who loves golf needs to read this book. I know it's been out for a while, but his concepts really work.  After reading the book and giving it time to digest you can correct almost any problems you are having in your golf swing.  Hope you get a chance to read it if you haven't already!

[max power]

Not being glib here.  If you're an 11.3 handicap (which I guess you're not since you say you're in the mid 90's)-even if you're an 18 handicap, you're about as good/maybe slightly better than most people ever get at golf.  You've taken lessons and practiced, and if this isn't rewarding for you then I'd say it is time to give up golf.  When I have a particularly bad or frustrating round I sometimes feel like giving up golf, or taking some serious time off.  That never lasts more than a day, and usually only for a few hours.  Sounds like you're not enjoying yourself at all-time to move on.

Originally Posted by jmjacj1118

Hi all. I have played for 19 years. I love the game but am now thinking of quitting. I am completely frustrated that I have been struggling with the exact same problem for nearly two decades. Slicing, inconsistent ball-striking - it's always the same. I have now taken packages of lessons from nine different pro's over the years. My current pro has told me that he doesn't know what I should do because he says my swing is great and I hit the ball perfectly during lessons on the range. Everyone of my pro's always says the same thing: "I dont understand why you're not consistently in the 70's." But I'm not. I'm barely in the mid-90's. I don't need to be a scratch golfer...I just want to stop being embarrassed when I play with clients and friends. Is there a time when you just have to realize "I'm terrible at this game" and give it up?

Thanks for the advice.

[Chief Broom]

That Barkley video is really telling.  To the OP I'd consider that to be a big part of the problem.  Since he's able to perform well at the range, but on the course his game falls apart and his old swing flaws take over I'd say his problem is mental.  Overcoming this will be tough, but I'd be willing to bet that the OP spends more time on the range compared to time on the course.  What I'd do is stop going to the range and start practicing on the course (or just playing).  You can do this by playing when the course isn't crowded.  Go out in the evening and if the course is empty only play a couple of holes but hit multiple shots off the tee, into the green, in the bunker, etc.  I've never been a big fan of time spent on the range because the range easily conceals problems in your swing.  How many fairways are 200 yds wide?  How many times do you draw a good lie on level ground on the course like you always do at the range?  How many times when you play a round do you get into a rhythm with a club by hitting it repeatedly?  The fact is it's rare you draw favorible conditions like you do at the range and when you do on the tee the fiarway you have to hit into often demands one particular shot in order to hit it successfully.  Miss hit a few shots when you do go to the course and your mindset can become very defeatist.  Anyone who seriously considers giving up the game has given up on believing in their ability to play well and has embraced about as defeatist an attitude as possible.  It's not surprising that someone who feels like this is struggling with his game.  We all have been been there.  One way I combat this is to realize that for every good round I have I'm going to have a bad one.  It's the law of averages. The more consistant you are the better those bad rounds will be but your "average" round is dictated by equally good and bad rounds.  As to the question of quitting if the game isn't fun I'd say it either makes sense to quit or to reevaluate what it takes for you to have fun on the course.

[Yukari]

I agree absolutely.  As Tiger used to say, Ranger Rick hits well on the range but can't bring the game on the course.  You need to start playing more rather than spending time on the range.  I'd say it is the nerves that is getting to you on the course.  You need to start "practicing" actually playing rather than spending a lot of time on the range.

When I first took up the game, I got good at hitting the balls on the range.  But when I went out on the course...  it was like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.  The more time I spent playing rather than just practicing, the better I got on the course.

So stop practicing on the range.  Just go out and play more.

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

That Barkley video is really telling.  To the OP I'd consider that to be a big part of the problem.  Since he's able to perform well at the range, but on the course his game falls apart and his old swing flaws take over I'd say his problem is mental.  Overcoming this will be tough, but I'd be willing to bet that the OP spends more time on the range compared to time on the course.  What I'd do is stop going to the range and start practicing on the course (or just playing)......

[aschroeger]

One mental thought that has helped me tremendously:

" Think where you want the ball to go.  Do not think about where the ball could end up"

Or something like that... Just stay positive.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by jmjacj1118

Hi all. I have played for 19 years. I love the game but am now thinking of quitting. I am completely frustrated that I have been struggling with the exact same problem for nearly two decades. Slicing, inconsistent ball-striking - it's always the same. I have now taken packages of lessons from nine different pro's over the years. My current pro has told me that he doesn't know what I should do because he says my swing is great and I hit the ball perfectly during lessons on the range. Everyone of my pro's always says the same thing: "I dont understand why you're not consistently in the 70's." But I'm not. I'm barely in the mid-90's. I don't need to be a scratch golfer...I just want to stop being embarrassed when I play with clients and friends. Is there a time when you just have to realize "I'm terrible at this game" and give it up?

Thanks for the advice.

Pray to the golf gods that one of these instructors lives somewhat near you. I "commute" two hours each way to see my instructor in Mt.Holly, NJ.

And if after a few months that doesn't work, then I'd quit. Seriously, it's not worth it. Tons of great hobbies out there

PS- sorry their roster of instructors is down....they usually have the list up though. I think there are currently 19 total guys in the entire world.

PPS- Obviously there are more than just 19 good instructors out there, and not associated with this method.

PPPS- The fact that after all this time your current teacher still doesn't understand your misses is a MASSIVE red flag.

[shortironsniper]

There is one simple swing-thought that I have seen help a lot of golfers with a slice they can't fix. make a dot with a marker to the left side of the logo on any ball. Place the logo facing the clubhead,  with the dot at about 7 o clock, (inside the logo) and swing to crush the dot.(can also be done w/o a dot, simply turn the logo inside) the swing-thought is to crush that logo, which seems like it would cause an even worse slice. What happens is you make a much flatter swing, promoting a better MOI, and making it seem easier to swing under control. This helps your club-speed, gets your body and hands working together, and all you have to do is focus more on the inside of the ball. push it out. follow through. swing easy, let your body do the work.

[skates]

hey First thing if golf isnt fun, or your not trying to get better than there is no point in playing. Most teaching professionals will say this or that to make sure you come back to them as that is their main source of income. In all reality it is really hard to get "good" at golf unless you play a lot. I use to think if I played 2-3 times a week I played a lot and in all reality you have to play 5 times at least a week to get good at this game. If your an 11 handicap I would be happy as you are better than most. Go to the range try some different swings and find the right swing for you.

[garrettdennert]

Originally Posted by jmjacj1118

Hi all. I have played for 19 years. I love the game but am now thinking of quitting. I am completely frustrated that I have been struggling with the exact same problem for nearly two decades. Slicing, inconsistent ball-striking - it's always the same. I have now taken packages of lessons from nine different pro's over the years. My current pro has told me that he doesn't know what I should do because he says my swing is great and I hit the ball perfectly during lessons on the range. Everyone of my pro's always says the same thing: "I dont understand why you're not consistently in the 70's." But I'm not. I'm barely in the mid-90's. I don't need to be a scratch golfer...I just want to stop being embarrassed when I play with clients and friends. Is there a time when you just have to realize "I'm terrible at this game" and give it up?

Thanks for the advice.

I wouldn't advise quitting the game entirely, but maybe take a step back and re-evaluate why you play the game and what it does for you.  And with the golf professionals, I'm sure a lot of them know what they're talking about but the way I look at it, if they're telling you you hit the ball perfectly, they're not too knowledgeable.  No offense to you, of course, but not very many people can hit the ball "perfectly"-- just watch the tour pros over the weekend and witness them making mistakes.  I've had this same problem with friends and family who have contemplated backing out of the game, and I find that it lies in the way they were taught how to play.  When there is a lack of proper instruction, because everything in golf builds off each other (putting to chipping to pitching to full swing), if you are taught one thing wrong and practice it wrong, wrongness will build up.  It's simple really, but I'd hate to see you give it up completely.  Take care.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by jmjacj1118

Hi all. I have played for 19 years. I love the game but am now thinking of quitting. I am completely frustrated that I have been struggling with the exact same problem for nearly two decades. Slicing, inconsistent ball-striking - it's always the same. I have now taken packages of lessons from nine different pro's over the years. My current pro has told me that he doesn't know what I should do because he says my swing is great and I hit the ball perfectly during lessons on the range. Everyone of my pro's always says the same thing: "I dont understand why you're not consistently in the 70's." But I'm not. I'm barely in the mid-90's. I don't need to be a scratch golfer...I just want to stop being embarrassed when I play with clients and friends. Is there a time when you just have to realize "I'm terrible at this game" and give it up?

Thanks for the advice.

You and I could be "brothers" because I went through the same thing right down to what a few instructors said to me (I should be shooting 70s with my then swing).  The only difference is that I've only been golfing for about 15 years.  So, I have about 4 years less grief than you.  If I had a dime for everytime I wanted to quit golf, I'd have enough money to hire my own in-house instructor to follow me around everytime I played.

Quote:

Are you thinking too much? Free your mind and the rest will follow...

This.  But, you have to figure out why you're thinking too much.

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Here's and alternative suggestion: Instead of bringing your range game to the course, try bringing the course to the range.

ADD pressure to your range work. Create a game of ten excellent (straight) shots in a row. Bt the time you've hit five or six in a row, those last few become much harder. Mix up clubs after each shot. Go through whatever pre-shot routine you use for every shot. "Play" a hole on the range by starting with a driver, then hit the iron you'd have left...

If none of these ideas work (mine and others), then consider that your swing may not be simple enough to hold up under pressure. You may be relying too much on timing your hips or something that makes it great when it is great but not very dependable. Consider starting over with a new instructor and a simple swing. I did in 2005 when I found Moe Norman's swing as taught by Graves Golf. I'm not as good as I plan to be. But I can play with friends and clients and feel comfortable on any course.

While this has helped many, it didn't work for me.  I tried and tried to psych myself out at the range, tried to put pressure on myself while at the range.  Didn't matter because I still couldn't duplicate the pressure I put on myself while on the course.  In the end, I discoved that it wasn't that I didn't put enough pressure on myself at the range.  Rather, I put too much pressure on myself on the course.

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

That Barkley video is really telling.  To the OP I'd consider that to be a big part of the problem.  Since he's able to perform well at the range, but on the course his game falls apart and his old swing flaws take over I'd say his problem is mental.  Overcoming this will be tough, but I'd be willing to bet that the OP spends more time on the range compared to time on the course.  What I'd do is stop going to the range and start practicing on the course (or just playing).  You can do this by playing when the course isn't crowded.  Go out in the evening and if the course is empty only play a couple of holes but hit multiple shots off the tee, into the green, in the bunker, etc.  I've never been a big fan of time spent on the range because the range easily conceals problems in your swing.  How many fairways are 200 yds wide?  How many times do you draw a good lie on level ground on the course like you always do at the range?  How many times when you play a round do you get into a rhythm with a club by hitting it repeatedly?  The fact is it's rare you draw favorible conditions like you do at the range and when you do on the tee the fiarway you have to hit into often demands one particular shot in order to hit it successfully.  Miss hit a few shots when you do go to the course and your mindset can become very defeatist.  Anyone who seriously considers giving up the game has given up on believing in their ability to play well and has embraced about as defeatist an attitude as possible.  It's not surprising that someone who feels like this is struggling with his game.  We all have been been there.  One way I combat this is to realize that for every good round I have I'm going to have a bad one.  It's the law of averages. The more consistant you are the better those bad rounds will be but your "average" round is dictated by equally good and bad rounds.  As to the question of quitting if the game isn't fun I'd say it either makes sense to quit or to reevaluate what it takes for you to have fun on the course.

This was the answer for me.

IMO, OP and I suffer the same affliction; a form of performance anxiety.  This anxiety leads us to over-think to a point of distraction.

The very first lesson with my current instructor (a little over a year ago), we worked on my swing for about 15 minutes.  He saw that I had a flip, so he had me do knock-down shot drills.  Next thing I know, we're heading out to the course to play 3 holes.  The first hole we played was a 150 yard par 3.  Since I was still new to him, he had me verbalize my strategy for the hole (identify the safe zone on the green and select my target line).  At that point, he tells me to play the hole.  I grab a ball and tee it up.  I take a few steps back and make a couple of practice swings.  I align my club to my intermediate target spot in front on my ball and swing.  Dead-pull low and left about 15 yards off the green.  I turn to my instructor and wait for him to give me his analysis of what I did wrong.  Much to my surprise, he doesn't say anything.  He grabs a range ball and throws it in the tee box and says, "Hit that one".  I lean over to put it on a tee.  He says, "No tee".  Ok.  I step back so I can take my practice swing(s).  He says, "No practice swings".  Ok.  With nothing else really to do, I step up to the ball and swing.  The ball flies dead straight right over the flag and ends up 10 feet behind the flag.  My instructor looks at me, smiles and says, "Let's go putt".  I read the green for him and tell him where I want to start the ball.  He affirms and I stroke the putt.  My putt goes by the hole 6".  My instructor says, "Tap in par on a par 3.  I'll take that any day of the week".

It was at the point that I realized that my swing was already good enough to shoot lower scores.  Sure, it needed a little tweaking, but overall, it was plenty good enough.  All I had to do was accept that I didn't have to make a perfect swing each time.  Rather, make a good swing and trust that the results would be acceptable.  A little over a year ago, I couldn't break 100.  My game deteriorated to that level.  At my best (several years ago) I was a 13.  Towards the end of last year, I was probably a 17.  Fast forward to now, I'm an 8.  The reason for improvement?  90% mental and 10% mechanics.  I spent the majority of 1qtr 2011 just playing where I didn't try to make perfect swings nor where I tried to force/steer the ball towards the target. Rather, just swing and go from there.

By removing some of the self-imposed pressure to perform, I've actually allowed myself to perform better.  In essence, I've learned to get-out-of-my-own-way.

[Losttsol]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Here's and alternative suggestion: Instead of bringing your range game to the course, try bringing the course to the range.

ADD pressure to your range work. Create a game of ten excellent (straight) shots in a row. Bt the time you've hit five or six in a row, those last few become much harder. Mix up clubs after each shot. Go through whatever pre-shot routine you use for every shot. "Play" a hole on the range by starting with a driver, then hit the iron you'd have left...

If none of these ideas work (mine and others), then consider that your swing may not be simple enough to hold up under pressure. You may be relying too much on timing your hips or something that makes it great when it is great but not very dependable. Consider starting over with a new instructor and a simple swing. I did in 2005 when I found Moe Norman's swing as taught by Graves Golf. I'm not as good as I plan to be. But I can play with friends and clients and feel comfortable on any course.

Very good idea.  I do this as well and it helps a lot.  Grooving away with a 7 iron for 25 shots in a row isn't like real life playing.

Originally Posted by Dr. Strangeclub

Visualization.  You have to teach yourself to see the shot you are going to hit and HIT THAT SHOT.  The cerebellum will take care of coordinating everything to "Make it so," as Picard would say.  Amazingly enough, even clumsy mechanics will often still produce the shot you were looking at in your mind (more or less), because the brain will make adjustments to match your vision of your shot to whatever the swing mechanics turned out to be on a given shot.

Conversely, if you see yourself hitting it into the trees with a slice, previewing your embarrassment so to speak, the cerebellum will "Make it so." no matter what your swing mechanics might be.  The part of your brain that computes all this stuff doesn't know anything about good shots and bad shots, only how to do the last thing that was plugged into the visual/muscular packet.  If you're thinking about knocking it in the pond before you hit, that will happen as often as not.  If you see it arching majestically into the sky, landing on the green next to hole, that will be what the cerebellum will try to do and coordinate your movements accordingly.

I don't mean that this is automatic or easy, but you have to learn to do it if you want to get better.  Swing mechanics don't cut it.

I totally agree with this.  I always play better when I'm consciously thinking about where I want to put the ball.  In fact, I play better at courses where they have a 150yd stick in the ground that I can actually see from distance, than where they just have a marker on the ground.  It gives you something to shoot at instead of just firing away in some general direction.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by skates

I use to think if I played 2-3 times a week I played a lot and in all reality you have to play 5 times at least a week to get good at this game. If your an 11 handicap I would be happy as you are better than most. Go to the range try some different swings and find the right swing for you.

This depends on the individual.  I have never played more than twice a week consistently and I got down to a 2.8 last year.  There are plenty of things you can do around your house to improve your game without having to play 5 times a week.

I agree that if you are an 11 handicap, you should be having fun and be happy because that is nothing to feel bad about.

I would go to the range and work on YOUR swing.  Fixing a slice is not too terribly hard.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Sounds like you need an instructor that will take you off the mats and onto the course to see your game under real conditions.   If you hit well off the mats and not on a course getting more lessons or  practice on mats is not likely going to fix your problems.

This!!!!  Any instructor worth his salt will offer a playing lesson.  Usually from 6 to 9 holes, but if you develop a good relationship with your pro he might stick around for a full 18 hole round.  That is the only way he will ever know what you are doing differently on the course from what he sees on the range.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by skates

hey

First thing if golf isnt fun, or your not trying to get better than there is no point in playing.

Most teaching professionals will say this or that to make sure you come back to them as that is their main source of income.

In all reality it is really hard to get "good" at golf unless you play a lot. I use to think if I played 2-3 times a week I played a lot and in all reality you have to play 5 times at least a week to get good at this game. If your an 11 handicap I would be happy as you are better than most. Go to the range try some different swings and find the right swing for you.

What a load of rubbish!

Most people who play golf are quite happy to do it for the enjoyment, fellowship and exercise. How they score is almost incidental. If they play well, great, if they don't, so what? They're playing again in a few days time.

I know many golfers who play once or twice a week, never practice and play off single figures. And I'm talking about competition, playing by the rules. Not someone who says he's off 8 but has never played a competition round in his life and couldn't break 100 if there were no gimmes or mulligans. These are good golfers. In Australia, we don't have the practise facilities you guys have , so quality practice time is hard to get for lots of people. I know of half a dozen guys in their 60s who play off low single figures, never practise, but play comp twice or (very rarely) three times a week and have done for 30 years. That's not to say that they didn't practise when they were younger. Two peope in my regular Saturday foursome play once a week and both play of single figures. They never practise. They don't have the time. Once you've got reasonable ability and skills, you don't need to bash ball all the time. It's boring (for many) and doesn't guarantee improvement.

Obviously, if you want to be really good  - you have to practise. But it's how and what you practise rather than just practise.  BTW, an 8 handicapper (even a genuine one) is not even close in ability to a 2 marker, let alone a genuine scratch player.

For a lot of people, practise does nothing but ingrain faults. The more they practise, the worse a lot of players will get.

As for trying "some different swings" ... are you joking?

The OP seems more interested in the fact that the pro thinks he's got a "great" swing and hits it "perfectly" on the range rather than facing the reality that he's a hacker. If you can hit it on the practise fairway, you can hit it on the course. My guess is that on the practise fairway he's not using proper targets and is focusing on the way shots feel, rather than where they go. What feels like great contact on the range might miss the target by 20 yards.

Watch the user submitted videos on this site. I'll bet you can't find one where the player looks up at a target after putting the ball in position to hit it.  It's a common problem.

On the other hand, you have to be so good for it to matter, that you're better off just playing for enjoyment. You might just have shot 75 off a handicap of 15.  Great work, but there are 1000 guys within a hundred miles of you who would go home crying if they shot 74 on the same day at the same course.

So what if you can't break 100? Why does it matter?  If you played off 1, chances are you'd not break 90 in a serious event on a tough course where the pros are under par, so who cares?

It's all relative.

And, as for performance axiety, let me assure you that noone could care less how good or bad you are or what you just shot.Your friends will be glad for you, but they are thinking about their own game, I promise you.  You have nothing to be anxious about.  You could be playing in a foursome and have par figures and some of your partners wouldn't even know.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

This!!!!  Any instructor worth his salt will offer a playing lesson.  Usually from 6 to 9 holes, but if you develop a good relationship with your pro he might stick around for a full 18 hole round.  That is the only way he will ever know what you are doing differently on the course from what he sees on the range.

I agree, but for him to watch you play 18 holes you're looking at a 4 hour lesson. That would not be cheap.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Shorty

I agree, but for him to watch you play 18 holes you're looking at a 4 hour lesson. That would not be cheap.

That often depends on the relationship you build with him.  I've had one or another of our pros just come out to watch for a few holes for no charge, or even to play along, when he had no lessons scheduled.  I once paid for a half hour playing lesson and he stayed with me for 9 holes.  Since I've been playing the same public home course for some 30 years, maybe I have a narrow view of how it works elsewhere, but I got this sort of help 25 years ago too, with different pros and I was only playing a couple of times a month at most.  I don't act like I'm expecting any freebies, but I try to work up a friendly rapport with the staff, and that can translate into unexpected benefits.

[newtogolf]

Depends on the instructor, mine will play and instruct if you cover the green and cart fees as long as he's not scheduled.  Most won't charge for the full round unless they have to cancel scheduled appointments.

Originally Posted by Shorty

I agree, but for him to watch you play 18 holes you're looking at a 4 hour lesson. That would not be cheap.

[motsco]

I did not read every post except for the o.p. Here is 2 cents that will help you, don't worry if your swing looks good. You dont have to look like a pro to score. Get the ball to the hole. If you slicing of the tee with a driver flatten it out on your back swing and try to make a good finish trying to get your weight forward you will start to see that after a while of this you will start pulling the ball, adjust your club from there. Short game, find a way to keep your hands steady don't wrist it just go back and through head down. Don't try to look like a golfer pro just find a chip pitch that works for you as long as you can get it on the green your fine. Putting well I thing every body needs work on that. When hitting your irons try to hit down on them don't use a iron longer then a 7. Find some woods to fill gaps like a 9 wood and 7 wood. Most important part is have fun and make the game yours. Sorry if I'm off subject I didn't read all the post. I'm a 20 handi cap and I have found my game it's not great but it's good enough for to have fun and work on. Also I have found some things out that non of my instructors showed me. It's golf. It's not perfect! Have fun and find you swing. Hit through the ball not at it. T