Anyone Watch Dalton McCrary's How to Hit the Golf Ball as Straight as You Can Point?

[Mr. Desmond]

Ac[quote name="newtogolf" url="/t/52189/anyone-watch-dalton-mccrarys-how-to-hit-the-golf-ball-as-straight-as-you-can-point/90#post_886084"]When I first started reading this site, everyone was gushing about S&T.;  I had no interest in S&T; but found enough good people and useful information on here to become a member and support the site.  The fact we now consider 5SK the holy grail and not S&T; shows that we all can learn something from other golf swings and methods, no one method works for everyone.  I'd suggest that we all would benefit from having exposure to as many swing methods and ideas as possible and let the members decide what's best for them individually.  Dalton made an offer with Mr. Desmond to play a round of golf and share his thoughts about the golf swing as well as cover all the costs, Mr. Desmond has yet to accept.  Maybe someone else from the site would like to take Mr. Desmond's spot and report back.  Reading this thread I'm reminded back to the days when I wasn't agnostic and went to Catholic church where I was told how wrong all the other religions were...     [/quote] Actually, I did accept. I said, thanks, we will do something.

[dkmago]

Originally Posted by WillR

As Mr Greening & Mr Desmond have quite rightly replied to this forum in a manner of decency, this forum still declares indirectly they have a superior product to anyone else. It is quite clear what the agenda is here on this thread. It is nothing more than a sales promotion machine for the owner and co-owner of the sandtrap. Anyone who dares to mention anything other than their own 5 Simple Keys is immediately beaten down by the supporters of this site. The supporters and new members are quite clearly coerced to swing their minds over to 5SK rather than another product which produces a threat to them. How do I know, let`s just say I do. OK Go ahead and lock it down. You will be doing your members a real favor, so they don`t have to listen to your whining little shills.

The biggest difference between what you've said and reality is that ANYONE (even you) can research ON THIS SITE what the 5SK is all about (meat).

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Ac

Actually, I did accept.

I said, thanks, we will do something.

You did, but it seemed open ended.  If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by WillR

As a new member, my perception does seem to indicate that this forum thread is a closed group. If you do not agree to their beliefs, you are hounded until you do, or you just don`t post anymore.This is why there are so many `single` posts on here. People are either worried about being hounded or they cannot be bothered to hurl insults back and forth.It seems to me, if this thread is not making money from you, they are not interested in anything you want to communicate.You can clearly see that others post links everywhere, yet others are removed because they provide no form of revenue.

If you don't think there are varying viewpoints on this forum, I encourage you to spend more time reading around.  I'm about as contrarian as they come around these parts (although I usually back up my viewpoints and try and articulate them with specifics and/or examples), and I have been accepted here.  I also do not spend a lot of time learning the methodology and teachings of the site's admins (most of the terms still escape me, although I'm sure they are not difficult to absorb), and yet I've not been branded as an outcast as a result.  Your perception of things is far from reality.

Originally Posted by WillR

As Mr Greening & Mr Desmond have quite rightly replied to this forum in a manner of decency, this forum still declares indirectly they have a superior product to anyone else. It is quite clear what the agenda is here on this thread. It is nothing more than a sales promotion machine for the owner and co-owner of the sandtrap. Anyone who dares to mention anything other than their own 5 Simple Keys is immediately beaten down by the supporters of this site. The supporters and new members are quite clearly coerced to swing their minds over to 5SK rather than another product which produces a threat to them. How do I know, let`s just say I do. OK Go ahead and lock it down. You will be doing your members a real favor, so they don`t have to listen to your whining little shills.

First off--and I'm saying this as somebody who doesn't subscribe to the 5SK, at least not directly (I may benefit from watching a video randomly here or there)--the site owner's thinking their product is superior is to be expected.  Why would they teach it otherwise?  Would you expect them to think another method is superior and then teach something inferior?  So I'm not sure why that would even bother you.  It's not like they spend all of their time crapping on everybody else's methodology without warrant or merit.  As teachers and educators, discussing other methods can actually be instructional and educational, so from that perspective it would be warranted, and if other methods can stand up to the scrutiny, they shouldn't be worried.

Second, merely mentioning another product is NOT going to result in a beatdown.  However, if you mention it, hype it up, discuss the values of it while NEVER explaining it, talking about the merits of it nor the science/philosophy behind it, then you DESERVE to be harassed into either putting up or shutting up.  How any reasonable person could think differently is beyond me.

It's pretty clear by this time you are simply going to fully embrace a victim complex in order to make this look like some conspiracy to denounce a method (that has never been explained) because we are all brain-dead shills for the product being pushed by this site.  You are full of it.

[Mr. Desmond]

You did, but it seemed open ended.  If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

No worries Have a busy schedule at the moment and will contact Dalton after school begins next week

[boogielicious]

Originally Posted by WillR

As Mr Greening & Mr Desmond have quite rightly replied to this forum in a manner of decency, this forum still declares indirectly they have a superior product to anyone else. It is quite clear what the agenda is here on this thread. It is nothing more than a sales promotion machine for the owner and co-owner of the sandtrap. Anyone who dares to mention anything other than their own 5 Simple Keys is immediately beaten down by the supporters of this site. The supporters and new members are quite clearly coerced to swing their minds over to 5SK rather than another product which produces a threat to them. How do I know, let`s just say I do. OK Go ahead and lock it down. You will be doing your members a real favor, so they don`t have to listen to your whining little shills.

But there has been no substance at all presented by Mr McCrary or others about the subject.  It is said to be excellent by those who support it, but you can't really tell us why.  It sounds very much like "The Think Method" from the musical The Music Man .  Just think about playing the trumpet and you will play it.  Why practice a difficult passage on the guitar when I can just will my fingers to do it.  That is how they should teach people to teach guitar!  Why did I waste all those years practicing!

Mr McCrary claims there is no such thing as muscle memory when centuries of training methods from sword-fighting, to violin to gymnastics have show otherwise.  If this was the case, then why do they bother with Football training camp in the NFL or batting practice in Baseball?  They can just tell there bodies to do it right before the first pitch!

If he wants to discuss visualization or other proven techniques then I would love to discuss because I am not versed in these.  But stop playing the victim when all we are asking for is details.  If you won't give us details unless we buy it, then it is a sales call is it not?

A famous saying applies here.  "If it sounds too good to be true, it is."

[Arte]

Firstly I am not linked to DM in any way other than I am a satisfied customer.

I took up Golf in 2001, my start point was a book by Sam Snead bought in a second hand shop. I followed his instructions the best I could and managed to get my handicap down to the mid 20's.

A couple of years later I saw a series of adverts on the Golf Channel (I think) advertising the Straight shooting system. I was sceptical, but as they were offering a money back guarantee I asked a close family member to buy me a copy for my birthday.

The system contained 4 videos to be watched in sequence and a workbook.

The workbook tells how DM arrived at his philosophy on how to hit straight shots, and then goes into details of how "his" swing takes place, starting from address with the pushing back of the golf club to what he describes as the "one" position, he obviously continues right through the swing.

Compared to other systems I have read and seen on the net, this swing seems (to me) to be very simple. His positions are the ideal, but he does acknowledge that everyone cannot get into these (few) positions so you have a "as far as possible" compromise.

The video's show him speaking to a class explaining his philosophy, he then teaches one of the students how to use this swing. This teaching involves taking  the student through the various components of the swing (there are probably less than five elements) with few drills to reinforce the learning of each component. The student struggles a bit with some of what he is being told to do, but does end up hitting a few crisp shots in the end.

There is a recap where DM goes through everything and it finishes with a section on all the drills which aid you in becoming a 'straight shooting golfer'

DM makes reference to Hogan's 5 Lessons book, which I subsequently purchased. Is DM's swing revolutionary different from what Hogan and Snead have written: Not really.

DM is certainly not the best presenter of material that I have seen in front of camera, at times the whole production looks a bit amateurish, and includes a few  stories from way back in history. That said, in a likeable way he puts across why he believes you should do something, and shows you how to do it. He also explains some common faults and explains why you shouldn't do certain things.

Having read the workbook and watched the video's I came to the conclusion that I agreed with what he was saying and I started putting into practice what he was saying. Yes I improved, my handicap did not drop like a stone but I have slowly nibbled it down to a respectable number.

Of course like everyone else, I pick up titbits here and there, subscribe to news letters etc so I am probably now LESS of a Strait Shooting Golfer than I was when I was a 20 handicap.

There are dozens of systems trying to get your money to give you an instant reduction in your handicap on the market, I am not saying that DM is better than any other, indeed if Tiger or Rory struggle to get there swing right what hope is there for the rest of us.

All of the above are comments on the old system and not the new one that has now been released.

I found out about the new system from this thread and yes I have purchased it. The content has not changed but the presentation is better although I did find it useful to refer to the old workbook which is not supplied with the new digital download.

The system works for me, but I do realise that in reality I may well have become a better golfer with a completely different system.

[WillR]

What the heck are you talking about ? I have no product. Unless it`s my shower gel, tooth paste etc. I have never even had the time to watch these video`s you are all talking about. You are surely mistaken Sir to think I am what you are accusing me of. Please go back to 6th Grade and try again. Come back and post like an adult.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Arte

The workbook tells how DM arrived at his philosophy on how to hit straight shots, and then goes into details of how "his" swing takes place, starting from address with the pushing back of the golf club to what he describes as the "one" position, he obviously continues right through the swing.

The video's show him speaking to a class explaining his philosophy, he then teaches one of the students how to use this swing. This teaching involves taking  the student through the various components of the swing (there are probably less than five elements) with few drills to reinforce the learning of each component.

What is his philosophy? What are the fundamentals of his swing? What are the four or five basic elements?

Every system of teaching has basic fundamentals that are emphasized. What are Dalton's?

[Arte]

The basics are: Dalton believes that hitting the ball straight is not the hardest shot in golf. If the club head is square and traveling straight down the line to the target the ball will go straight.

He shows you how to increase the 'zone of squareness' The basic moves are that the swing is initiated by the club moving straight back to what DM calls the 'one' position (which varies from player to player depending on your own physical ability) you then move up to the top of the backswing which DM explains how to find your personal top position. The club returns down through your 'one' position where the head should be square again, through impact and along the target line.

In reality it is very much like 'Iron Byron' the machine that whacks golf balls.

[RPMPIRE]

Originally Posted by WillR

What the heck are you talking about ?I have no product. Unless it`s my shower gel, tooth paste etc.I have never even had the time to watch these video`s you are all talking about.You are surely mistaken Sir to think I am what you are accusing me of.Please go back to 6th Grade and try again. Come back and post like an adult.

I am rather surprised that you being a Sports Scientist can believe one of Dalton's philosophies that muscle memory does not exist. As a supporter of Dalton's teaching methods, I would expect a little more substance on his teaching methods and details about the swing mechanics from you.

If you did a simple search on the forum regarding 5SK, they do provide a lot of useful information and a lot of how/why details. It seems that "Straight Shooter" just wants everyone to pay up so they can get whatever Dalton is teaching them in his videos, which just by the looks of things, isn't all that detailed.

[Phil McGleno]

If hitting a straight shot is not hard why do no pga tour players hit the ball straight-they all play a curve of some kind. And Iron Byron swings the club on an arc-it is not "down the target line" at all except for one instant on the arc. Dalton McCrary has been around for a long time and hes a snake oil salesman with a bunch of quick fixes and no sustained ideas or concepts-that is why you never see swings of their students or before and after because they would all be bad. Just my opinion but Ive had numerous run-ins with the guy and hes always been like this. The only thing I agree with him on is that he cant teach the golf swing.:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by RPMPIRE

I am rather surprised that you being a Sports Scientist  can believe one of Dalton's philosophies that muscle memory does not exist. As a supporter of Dalton's teaching methods, I would expect a little more substance on his teaching methods and details about the swing mechanics from you.

We all agree Dalton is using the definition of muscle memory in a literal fashion.  In that sense, he's correct, repetitive muscle activities are managed in the brain, not the muscle, therefore, muscle has no memory.  In a non-literal sense we recognize that activities that we perform regularly are engrained in our brain and require little to know conscious thought to perform.

Watch a young child trying to feed themselves for the first few times, they quite often miss their mouth and mis-time the release of the food from their hands.  Over time, they become quite proficient at it as the movement becomes familiar.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

If hitting a straight shot is not hard why do no pga tour players hit the ball straight-they all play a curve of some kind.

And Iron Byron swings the club on an arc-it is not "down the target line" at all except for one instant on the arc.

Dalton McCrary has been around for a long time and hes a snake oil salesman with a bunch of quick fixes and no sustained ideas or concepts-that is why you never see swings of their students or before and after because they would all be bad. Just my opinion but Ive had numerous run-ins with the guy and hes always been like this. The only thing I agree with him on is that he cant teach the golf swing.:-D:-D:-D:-D

I don't believe pro's claim hitting the ball straight shot is hard, it's just not the best method for them to shoot low scores.

Many of the books I've read indicate the reason why the pro's hit a fade or draw is because they wish to avoid one side of their target.  For example I'd want to hit a draw as a lefty if water was on the left side of the hole.  As a lefty, a draw gives me a larger margin of error given the balls flight curves away from the water on the left.

[Yukari]

Why this advertisement thread is still ongoing is beyond me.

But I'll contribute to this nonsense for the fun of it.

DM's insistence on there being no "Muscle Memory" is his misunderstanding of the term.  Muscle memory does NOT mean that muscles have memory.  It simply means your brain is trained in a such manner to allow your muscles to repeat learned process.  His insistence on arguing there is no muscle memory simply shows his ignorance.

As for his method, I haven't seen one iota of substance through this entire thread.

A typical sales person's approach in trying to sell a garbage is to talk about the results without actually talking about the product itself.  If the product is a good product, you'll talk about the product and let the results speak for itself.  In this instance, it is the complete opposite.  All DM and his supposed students talk about is the results without actually talking about the product itself.

To borrow a well known saying: "if you have a product on your side, you'll talk about the product.  If you don't have a product on your side, you'll talk about the results."

[billchao]

Originally Posted by Yukari

A typical sales person's approach in trying to sell a garbage is to talk about the results without actually talking about the product itself.  If the product is a good product, you'll talk about the product and let the results speak for itself.  In this instance, it is the complete opposite.  All DM and his supposed students talk about is the results without actually talking about the product itself.

You got it right, there. It's all fluff. After reading through all of it, not a single word has made me remotely interested in the product at all. Maybe some people did genuinely benefit from it, who am I to judge? All I know is I don't make purchase decisions solely based on hype and anonymous internet reviews.

And the whole muscle memory thing is nonsense. Seriously, I wish it weren't, cause I keep telling myself to swing like Hogan and play bass like Geddy Lee. Too bad I still suck at both.

[Hacker James]

If in fact some believe that this type of thread should remain for the reason(s) of presenting different viewpoints and methodology, then the door should also be open (and may well be for all I know) to other views such as The Graves Academy (Moe Norman Swing), Hardy, and a host of others.  The main difference I believe is that thus far there have been no finite details and the material has been presented in what could be construed as a marketing ploy or advertisement.  The others I mentioned have been well documented with precise details, photos, and explanations at no charge and have been presented here in the past.  Since its inception in 2009 (correct me if I am wrong), the Plummer/Bennett Book of Stack n Tilt had its fair share of commentary and of course the 5SK of which we are fortunate to have the founders and instructors readily available whether or not one chooses to espouse their beliefs or convictions and all one need do is to type in a few key words and be able to receive very in-depth instruction at virtually no charge.  There probably is no need to close the thread at this point. It will eventually exhaust itself and expire of its own accord as people simply get fed up with hearing about it and have absolutely nothing to garner from what has been presented. I certainly have seen no swing  videos to date, which is of itself a curious point.

anyway....i'm done.....

[straightshooter]

Here is what I learned from the Straight Shooting golf VHS by Dalton. PS: My user name, straightshooter, does not imply I am a shill for the product. Thanks

I learned that I needed to examine my irons and the lie angle specifically. Mine were too flat. I am now +4 degrees upright on my irons.

I was presented a take away method that I was able to copy, mainly to keep the hand/club position until the left hand had passed beyond my right (trail) foot.

This eliminated my inside snatched take away. I had to practice this small movement to get it correct.

His plan shows one how to get a neutral grip on the club which he promotes.

Dalton's program discusses believing the changes he is presenting saying if you cannot disprove them, go ahead and believe and adopt his differences to "book" teaching.

One of the main differences is the release taught by Dalton versus the delayed lag talked about by so many. Dalton has the students begin the release of the clubhead shortly after beginning the forward swing motion. Other teachers try to get their students to pull down and maintain the wrist cock and lag until the hands approach the area of the zipper of their britches. Dalton teaches a different theory of the release. He uses Jack Nicklaus quote that he began releasing the clubhead immediately after the forward swing began.

I am wondering if this information will be construed as "meat" for the folks on this thread?

I shall proceed, remember I am not a shill. I purchased the VHS set circa 1996.

Dalton teaches a "roll" of the left forearm (and therefore all else) as the forward swing is being completed. By many, this would be called a very early release, in Dalton's world this is the move which allows the clubhead to square up to the target line and stay square for a longer distance than the 3-4" of the typical rotary type golf swing.

As part of the motion, he promotes a level head position and an attempt to see impact of the clubhead with the ball.

And he teaches a high (vertical) finish which coupled with the body movement and roll motion, allows the clubhead to finish pointing toward the ground after the complete swing.

Along the way, one is presented with numerous check points (with drills) to learn and perform the swing motion. He teaches a "no drop zone" whereby if your hands enter the no-drop zone and you have not begun the clubhead release, you will not hit a square shot as you did not allow the clubhead the necessary time to get square to the target line.

He also uses his stop watch to show how the ideal swing has an elapsed time of 1.25 seconds minimum and 1.50 as even better. No other teacher has ever discussed this elapsed time requirement. From the elapsed time presentation, he demonstrates how the golfer must develop a rhythm within this correct time frame and he suggests the mantra "one....and...roll",

not "oneandroll".

His swing also is a standing tall and upright posture with knowledge that the wrists are very important in providing club head speed.

His exercise of practicing hitting a rubber tire in order to see your square clubface is priceless.

I think his teaching does not have meat like is desired here. He does not give checkpoints A,B,C etc which maybe is the desired meat.

His workbook and the photos are easy to understand and easy to use to copy his swing.

It is all fairly simple but it is different as he differs from the grip and the release philosophy.

A great part of the instruction is his pointer to never bet a guy whose right shoe toe is worn out as this worn out area describes a golfer who finishes in a balance position with the weight on the left side and the right toe touching the ground!!