Par for the course inflates newer golfers scores.

[Topper]

I think what you describe is reasonable course management for a new golfer trying to maximize their score.

However, I'm a relatively new golfer, and I'm trying to develop a long game (driver, hybrids, and fairway woods).  I can hit these clubs OK on the range but it's different on the course when you're actually playing golf.  [There's a thread on this topic somewhere in the forums.]  So I will intentionally use drivers and hybrids to try to supplement range work and improve my skill.  But as you say, much of the time it either hurts or (at best) doesn't really help my score.  I hope that someday that will change.  Then again, there's a good chance that it will never change no matter how much I practice, and I'll have to leave the long clubs in the car when playing rounds where score is a priority.

[rustyredcab]

You've got to know, and play, your game. And as Topper said, you need to decide if you are trying to play golf and score the best you can, or are you working on your game.

Scoring is about managing your bad shots not making good shots. (Not my original idea, but one I like.) Even as a non-beginner, I get sucked into playing to my best possible shots instead of my most likely shot.

The 18th at my home course is a par five that doglegs around a lake. Long yardage on the card but only about 480 as the crow flies. If I pull my drive and end up just short of the water, I can end up on the fairway with as little as 210 to the pin almost entirely over water. It is a bad drive because the water is reachable with a big/bad bounce. I can either go for the green and risk dunking the ball but potentially have an eagle putt, or I can aim nearly away from the hole and lay up leaving a wedge in. If I lay up, I'll get on the green in regulation 80% of the time. If I go for the green, and I have a good lie, I'll make it 70% of the time. But there is rarely a nice flat lie from that part of the fairway. And a miss in the water means I am hitting from the same place again (maybe a few yards closer). If the somewhat arbitrary notion of an eagle was not so appealing, I'd never go for it. This is what I call "suckerville." Often I am a sucker. I go for it way too often. So, in an odd way, if it was a par four, I don't think I'd ever go for it because the glory of the eagle would be gone. My head says "Lay up stupid. Putt for birdie." My ego says "I've got this shot."

[dhanson]

sort of surprised one of these threads hasn't been mentioned.

[sacm3bill]

  dhanson said:

Originally Posted by dhanson

sort of surprised one of these threads hasn't been mentioned.

Well, even when playing the proper tees for their skill level, any golfer could be confronted with a long par 4 that requires them to at least consider a 3-shots-to-the-green strategy.

[TourSpoon]

It's called course management and is no different than me playing this par 5 that has trouble pin high and rear of the hole. I have learned this the hard way and even though most times I am capable of hitting it in 2 from 230, I usually hit a four iron to the front of the green because hitting it pin high off the green would yield a higher number. With the four I am either putting up hill or chipping for eagle versus trying to get u/d from an ugly place because I was trying to hit the 2H pin high.

There is a famous story about Tommy Armour taking a higher cap on as a bet that the guy could beat a more accomplished player in Boca Raton. Armour took him around, clubbed him conservatively and told him where to hit it. The guy had his personal best that day. Another example of playing to your strengths to post the best score possible.

[mikelegacy]

Being a higher handicap, sometimes I just can't help but want to hit that amazing drive on a par 5, but I agree, 9 times out of 10 i'm hitting in the tree line, and I hit LONG so my slice is HARD. This is why I wish I played golf competitively. I would think about the use of my clubs a lot more and I would reduce my score by 5-10 stroke easily. I'll normally waste 5-10 strokes a round just trying to get my ball out of the brush or the opposite fairway. I could easily reduce my handicap by not playing my driver as often, if ever, but I just can't force myself to do this when my score doesn't mean as much to me as it would if I was competing. I'm just a natural competitor. That said, I don't have a fairway wood game either. I've maybe hit my 3W off the fair way twice in my life. Both times resulting in the ball landing about 20 yards in front of me. People say Woods and Hybrids are easier to use, but I disagree. Traditional irons will always be my club of choice.

[trackster]

  RayG said:

Originally Posted by RayG

The OP's idea isn't an original idea (no offense). It was actually mentioned a LONG time ago in one of the Golf Magazines, maybe 20 years or something. It was almost exactly what he described. 3 6 irons to a par 5 will usually yield better results for the golfer looking to break 90 or something. Of course, forced carries and the like can mess that up. And the idea was based in course management and to NOT try and impress your buddies with that booming drive that 9 times out of 10 will find a fairway other than the one you're on. Many low handicappers will throttle back on shorter holes to get that good distance for using a full swing with a particular club. 350 par 4 would be a 220 3w leaving a nice smooth 9 Iron for example. Instead of trying to work a half chip/wedge from 60 to 70 yds out if they used a driver.

Haha that magazine is older than I am.

And I still don't feel like this falls in to the realm of course management.  I feel like it could be more of a variation of it.  Most course management has to do with how the hole is laid out.  Wide fairway, no bunkers, low cut rough, might want to try the driver.  Water to the right, OB to the left might want to lay up or club down.

What I am saying is play how you should play and not how the Par for the hole dictates you to play.  If you have a par 4 , It is common knowledge (not always easy)  to try to get on in 2 and 2 putt for par.  Play everything Par +1, so in theory your first shot is a  freebie to the traditional on in two.  Just poke it out there 160-180 yards and then play par 4 golf from there.  I honestly think that this would really help new golfers.

[Paradox]

  trackster said:

Originally Posted by trackster

Haha that magazine is older than I am.

And I still don't feel like this falls in to the realm of course management.  I feel like it could be more of a variation of it.  Most course management has to do with how the hole is laid out.  Wide fairway, no bunkers, low cut rough, might want to try the driver.  Water to the right, OB to the left might want to lay up or club down.

What I am saying is play how you should play and not how the Par for the hole dictates you to play.  If you have a par 4 , It is common knowledge (not always easy)  to try to get on in 2 and 2 putt for par.  Play everything Par +1, so in theory your first shot is a  freebie to the traditional on in two.  Just poke it out there 160-180 yards and then play par 4 golf from there.  I honestly think that this would really help new golfers.

picking the proper club in order to get the lowest possible score is course management.  If your driver is wild and you hit something else off the tee, then you are exercising course management to keep your ball in play.  If you know you can't reach the green in two and you lay your ball up to a spot where you can then get on and possibly be in 1 putt distance, thats course management.

What you're saying does make sense but It is an old idea.  I think I most recently read it in GOLF magazine 3 years ago.

[The Recreational Golfer]

We're having a "You say to-may-to, I say to-mah-to" thread here.

[trackster]

What is up with people saying that this is old advice.  I don't think anyone on this forum comes up with super creative ground breaking golf ideas.  It's a discussion forum for golf.  All the stuff presented here has more than likely been seen some where else.  I'm not presenting this like I discovered it, it is just an opinion I believe in.

And I don't see how this is considered course management when I am saying that you are not playing to the course.  You are playing to your Par (whether that be a 5 or a 6).  When ever I hear people talk about course management it is hitting 3 wood or hybrid of the tee to give yourself a ball in the fairway.  The goal is still to get on in 2.  But what I am saying is that you go into the hole thinking 3 to the green.  It has a lot of the same concepts as course management but at the same time a smart golf game already implores these tactics.

I just feel like if you took a new golfer, sent him out to a course that was posted par 72 and the same course where no par was posted, that he or she would play better with no par posted.

[funkyfred72]

I'm trying to figure out how this thread ISN'T course management. With everything that has been said, it most definitely is.

Ask yourself, "WHY am I not hitting a wood off the tee and using an iron?"  "Because I slice and could end up in the rough or under a tree.  I hit my irons more accurately."  Choosing which club to hit in ANY situation to get a more desirable outcome IS course management, no matter if you look at the layout of the hole or not.

  trackster said:

Originally Posted by trackster

And I don't see how this is considered course management when I am saying that you are not playing to the course.  You are playing to your Par (whether that be a 5 or a 6).  When ever I hear people talk about course management it is hitting 3 wood or hybrid of the tee to give yourself a ball in the fairway.  The goal is still to get on in 2.  But what I am saying is that you go into the hole thinking 3 to the green.  It has a lot of the same concepts as course management but at the same time a smart golf game already implores these tactics.

[sacm3bill]

  funkyfred72 said:

Originally Posted by funkyfred72

I'm trying to figure out how this thread ISN'T course management...

Course management has been redefined to "whatever Trackster says it is". Didn't you get the memo?

[FowlPlay]

I will be doing this from now on. Considering I'm a terrible golfer right now, and my most embarrassing shots are with the driver, I really think this will help me. Although it is apparently an old strategy, thanks for the tip.

[carpediem4300]

I always play the course for what par it is, if its a par 4 im going for the green in 2, i never think of playing a course to bogey every hole, while i can see it being a great advantage to the weekend warrior or occasional social golfer, to someone like myself who albeit has a high handicap but trying constantly get better, constantly practicing, i dont see how it would affect my scores?

if i leave with a score of bogey on every hole i will be dead chuffed,

[FowlPlay]

  carpediem4300 said:

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

I always play the course for what par it is, if its a par 4 im going for the green in 2, i never think of playing a course to bogey every hole, while i can see it being a great advantage to the weekend warrior or occasional social golfer, to someone like myself who albeit has a high handicap but trying constantly get better, constantly practicing, i dont see how it would affect my scores?

if i leave with a score of bogey on every hole i will be dead chuffed,

I think the idea is that it helps the mindset. You won't be as nervous about your shots if you have more strokes to par, amirite?

[carpediem4300]

well your not wrong?

but who would that help the most? i reckon the weekend warrior who changes the par mentally to bogey or if really bad double bogey then in their "mindset" they are shooting to par, which makes them happier and enjoy it more?............i would agree with that, especially the joy factor, as thats why we play

but for the more inclined player, who wants to constantly improve, i think it wouldnt offer much advantage, im always going to know its a par 4, by playing it as a par 5 im simply engraining into my mind that im not quite that good yet, which to me would put me down, i'd much prefer to play it as a par 4 and either par it or bogey it and think, dammmnn i came close there! than play it as a par 5 and think "sweet parred it,.....oh wait i didnt, bummer"

its probably my opinion more than real logic haha

  FowlPlay said:

Originally Posted by FowlPlay

I think the idea is that it helps the mindset. You won't be as nervous about your shots if you have more strokes to par, amirite?

[RayG]

  Topper said:

I think what you describe is reasonable course management for a new golfer trying to maximize their score.

What golfer in their right minds would want to MAXIMIZE their score? "hmmm, I could make a 4, but I'll go for a 6 instead..." :-D I know what you meant, but that just sounded a bit odd when I read it.

[ghalfaire]

I believe 4putt was correct.  Part of the learning process in golf is to understand your own strengths and weaknesses and use this information to minimize your final score.  It is often called course management but it is really about controlling your own game because you can' t manage the course, just yourself.

I see I should have read all the post before I posted this.  Many of you more than adequately covered the subject.

  trackster said:

Originally Posted by trackster

This I don't like.  That is like saying there is no need for me to get better at golf because I have my handicap.

False, I never mentioned course management thus why I brought up the thing about par for the course.  Course management has to do with the layout of the hole, what I am saying is that It would be wiser to not follow par for the hole all the time if you are a new golfer.  Course management is all about minimizing risk, what I propose is that you go into the hole thinking bogey golf for the hole.  Take the 3 shots that are the most likely for your game (not course layout) to get you on the green in GIR +1.