Playing by the rules........ Is there one here who can cast the first stone?

[bogey joe]

Let me start by saying I am by no means a well read golfer when it comes to the usga and r&a; rule books.  However, I do think that I am fairly well versed in the day to day rules that come up during an average round of golf.  Some years ago while on a golf trip to Myrtle Beach with some friends, friends not near my skill level, we were trying to hash out our bets the night before our first round.  My friends were asking me to give ridiculious amounts of strokes to them.  I was a near scratch player and my friends claimed to shoot 85 to 90 on average.  Finally after hours of negotiating I agreed to give each of them 35 shots on 18 holes on the condition that we played strictly by the rules.  This was a mistake on my part as far as friendships went.  I began on the first tee box by calling a penalty on one of them for teeing off in front of the tee markers, another was hit for searching for his golf ball in a hazard with using his club, another for raking his footprints behind as he walked to his ball in the bunker (testing the sand).  I made them hit 3 from the tee when they hit it out of bounds instead of dropping where it went ob, like they normally would.  when they hit it in the water I made them drop at point of entry or the drop area, not over the water as they did.  By the turn they had not only conceeded their bets, it seemed for a time my friendship as well.  So 2 questions here:  First, Do you think that if the average golfer (85 to 105 shooters) played strictly by the rules that he would enjoy the game as much.  Secondly, instead of asking if you have ever fudged a rule or unwittingly broken one, I like to know if there is anyone out there who believes they have never breached a rule of golf.  I myself am not without sin and cannot cast the first stone.  I thank you all in advance for your responses.

[Gresh24]

I am that "average golfer" you're describing.  I thought I was fairly well versed in day to day rules, but discovered I had a lot to learn.

For me, it would not be nearly as enjoyable to strictly follow every rule.  I do think I drop in the correct areas and/or re-tee when I have to.  Those I always try to make sure and get right.

[Spyder]

I don't think there is any golfer on the face of the planet who has never broken a rule. You need to remember that every golfer started off from absolutely zero understanding of the rules of golf and learned along the way. When you're born, you're not born with the USGA embedded into your brain. Every professional golfer, at some point in time, was a non-household name and an up and coming amateur, who has broken a rule.

I will never play strict rules with friends, even on bets, for the exact reasons that you pointed out. It's all fun and games until they're down 20 strokes by the third hole and call bullshit on every penalty that you point out. By the turn, they don't even want anything to do with you and it's simply not worth it. I'd rather keep my friendship than win a few bucks.

Personally, I think it's more fun to let them play casual and penalize myself. We can have more laughs throughout the round and be more relaxed. I'm also not the type of person to do this and then go back on my word and say "well, if we did play by the rules, then I clearly won ". That would be stupid.

I think you've learned your lesson though. Don't bet friends in golf unless you're playing with equally knowledgeable golfers.

[Stewie007]

Play strictly by the rules? Well, I probably don't, but I at least give it a sound effort. For instance, no practice swings in the sand, no testing the putting surface, where to drop the ball, etc. However, sometimes I do violate even these rules. I don't play in regulated tournaments, so I don't really care. When I start shooting in the 80s, I'll pay more attention, hehehe.

If it were a bet, though, you can bet I'd study the rule book the night before.

[iacas]

Everyone's broken the rules. Period.

I'm in the group that's broken them the least because:

a) I feel that I know them really well

b) I like to play "golf" and not some made up game with varying rules :-)

That said, even these days I'll go on the golf course (when I can get out! It's not too often!) and not play for a score, but will just use the course as a practice facility - hit a few drives here, drop a few balls in the bunker there, etc. That isn't "playing golf" though, that's just practicing on the golf course.

But if I'm playing golf at all, I can say I've never knowingly broke a rule.

I can safely say that I knew the rules better than 90% of golfers my first time out. I got hooked at a summer camp, bought a 7-iron in the fall, and had all winter to read about golf. When I was a kid, I read a LOT , so I read the rules book about twenty times that winter. The first time I played golf, I knew the rules pretty darn well.

[mdl]

I try to play by the rules, and do generally except in obscure situations where the rule's not clear.  The one rule I semi-regularly break is the OB re-tee rule.  If I'm sure I've hit it out of bounds, I'll play 3 on a 2nd tee shot.  But if I hit it towards the edge of in bounds but it looks like it's probably in play, I'll generally just go try to find it while others take their 2nd shot and just drop with a 1-stroke penalty if I can't find it (so basically stealing a stroke playing it as a hazard instead of OB).  I've gotten in this habit cause most courses I play are super busy so I don't want to take the time to both re-tee and search for my first ball.  When the course isn't busy I'll always take a provisional if I might have hit it OB.

But all the rule breaking you describe as rule breaking where your friends think it's onerous or lame to call penalties on when playing for money (even among friends), seems lame.  I rarely play for any money, but I sometimes play sort of friendly stroke competition with my golf buddies.  Even when I was a 90s player, if I was in such a friendly competition, I wouldn't tee up in front of the markers or drop on the far side of a water hazard or rake before my bunker shots (though I'm not sure I knew that was a penalty back then, but I never raked my footsteps pre-shot just because I'd rather do it all at once after the shot).

[bogey joe]

I completely agree and understand with how you handle the out of bounds.  I think in casual golf there should be no ob, just hazard to keep things moving and help everyone enjoy their round more.  As to the "testing the sand" rule, I only learned of it first hand in '87 at large high school tournament.  On the 16th hole with myself and two playing competitors were tied for the lead, locked in a great match,  One of my competitors hit his tee ball in the left edge of a large fairway bunker.  The rake was on the right side and he grabbed the rake walking across the bunker and drug the rake behind him to first take the shortest route, and second to keep the bunker raked.  My other competitor approached me and asked if I witness what player A just did?  I had no idea he committed an infraction of the rules, but as it turned out it was a penalty.  It was very awkward scenario but in the end I won the event by 1 shot over each of my competitors.  The victory has always and remains tainted to this day for me.  I would have never called the penalty even if I was aware of it because it is a STUPID rule.  But that is how I know it.  And by the way, the kid that called that penalty that day is now a P.G.A. tournament winner but still an ass.

[newtogolf]

I'm sure I broke rules early on, not intentionally but because I didn't know the rules.  Like others have said, if I'm practicing I toss the rule book aside, but if the game counts for handicap it's by the rules (at least to the best of my knowledge and those I'm playing with).  Sometimes it's not practical to play by the rules (going back to the teebox if you hit your drive out of bounds) if the course is packed.  In those cases I'll either make it a practice round or take ESC for the hole.

[zipazoid]

I can pretty confidently say I've never broken a rule in competition. At least not knowingly, meaning that maybe I teed a half inch in front of the markers & didn't realize it, that kind of thing.

Casual rounds, totally different story. And if we aren't playing for any stakes, I really don't care what you do, nor should you care what I do. My business.

Now, the situation described in the initial post? I say good for you. You gave them the strokes they wanted with the simple proviso of playing by the rules. It may have cost a friendship, but I think you did the right thing - you showed them just how difficult it is to strictly adhere to the rules. And further, I bet their usual 98 turned into a 110. A bet's a bet. If they can't hang with that, you're not the one to be ashamed.

[Grumpter]

I try not to cast stones unless they start insisting that we absolutely, positively must play a match. Otherwise I think golf should be played to the individuals rules. If you take mulligans, fine by me, if you don't re-tee to hit 3 when you knock your drive OB but rather hit from where the ball went out, fine by me. Want to play clean and place all year round? Fine by me. Anyone who plays outside of the written rules is usually only hurting their handicap making it harder on themselves if they do get into a competitive play situation. If it makes them enjoy golf more to not beat themselves up with the rules I'm all for it. After all what is better than someone actually enjoying the game?

[ghalfaire]

I play occasional "friendly" rounds with my buddies and I don't insist they play by the rules.  Things like giving putts inside the leather or someone "touching" the line of putt, etc.  don't really bother me and as long as there is no money at stake I just "go along to get along".  Having said that I do play by the rules as I have to live with my handicap at the club.   But when we play for money (even small amounts like $5) I insist we all know we are playing by the rules and any "committee rules" have to be out front before the round begins.  If any of these "committee rules" are in play I don't turn the round in for handicap.  In tournaments however we play by the rules and are penalized if you break one.  But I admit I'm not the one to throw the first stone.  While I strive to play by the rules, and believe I do most of the time, I am amenable to others not doing so in friendly rounds and sometimes for sake of the speed of play I will break one myself (like not going back to the tee when I can't find a ball that I had expected to be easy to find I'll just drop nearby and take 2 stokes).

[WWBDD]

Just ask yourself "WWBDD?"

[meenman]

Originally Posted by bogey joe

First, Do you think that if the average golfer (85 to 105 shooters) played strictly by the rules that he would enjoy the game as much.

The average golfer only shoots those *scores* because they do not play by the rules. - I have many friends that supposedly always shot in the 80s, but take away their mulligans and other less than honorable ways and those scores changed greatly.

I have never knowingly broken the rules, I actually over penalized myself as a newbie (actually hit off of cart paths and thought a 2 stroke penalty for out of bounds meant my 2nd tee shot was hitting 4)

I am generally considered the rules expert in the groups I play with and I really do not want to misinform anyone, so I do my best to make sure that everyone is playing by the rules.

[WWBDD]

Quote:

... I do my best to make sure that everyone is playing by the rules.

I'm sure that's greatly appreciated.

[trickymicky69]

I am the guy that ruins my pals Sunday morning round.

If I am playing - its by the rules - or I wont play with you

[Sheriff420]

Originally Posted by Stewie007

Play strictly by the rules? Well, I probably don't, but I at least give it a sound effort. For instance, no practice swings in the sand, no testing the putting surface, where to drop the ball, etc. However, sometimes I do violate even these rules. I don't play in regulated tournaments, so I don't really care. When I start shooting in the 80s, I'll pay more attention, hehehe.

If it were a bet, though, you can bet I'd study the rule book the night before.

That's how I feel about it. I've been hanging around 100 lately (97-104) and If I played strictly by the rules then I would be around 110-115. Since I'm not playing in a tournament or for money then you can bet I'll take two off the tee, drop where the ball went into the water and break out the foot wedge when I'm behind a tree without taking a penalty. I'm still learning so every round is just practice for me. When I start seeing 80's (in other words getting a little more consistent) then I'll start following all the rules and see those 80's jump back into the 90's. That will be fine though because when I start seeing 80's then that will mean that I'm keeping my ball in play more often and it will still be fun while playing by the rules. Right now it wouldn't be so fun if I followed every single rule.

[GJBenn85]

I've been playing only 8 months.  If from day one I had followed the rules 100%, I would have given up the game after a month.  With each round I play, I try to adhere to the rules based on my knowledge of them (I am still learning all of the rules) but it sure does not prevent me and my playing partner(s) from taking a mulligan or two.  What encourages me to learn the rules and adhere to them is the fact that because I am now penalizing myself for things I would have never penalized myself for in the beginning, my scores are still on a downward trend indicating my game is actually improving.

I occasionally catch my playing partners breaking a rule, either knowingly or unknowingly, but do not say anything since it is casual and frankly I do not care unless something is on the line (which there never has been to date).

Originally Posted by trickymicky69

I am the guy that ruins my pals Sunday morning round.

If I am playing - its by the rules - or I wont play with you

Wonder if there is a rule about shoving the head of a club up someone's *** for ruining a casual round of golf?  I hate the concept of pairing out of fear of being paired with a rule Nazi such as youself.  In casual golf, worry about your own game.  Only in competition or a bet do you have the right to ruin my round of golf if I do not happen to follow the rules 100%.

[trickymicky69]

Originally Posted by GJBenn85

I've been playing only 8 months.  If from day one I had followed the rules 100%, I would have given up the game after a month.  With each round I play, I try to adhere to the rules based on my knowledge of them (I am still learning all of the rules) but it sure does not prevent me and my playing partner(s) from taking a mulligan or two.  What encourages me to learn the rules and adhere to them is the fact that because I am now penalizing myself for things I would have never penalized myself for in the beginning, my scores are still on a downward trend indicating my game is actually improving.

I occasionally catch my playing partners breaking a rule, either knowingly or unknowingly, but do not say anything since it is casual and frankly I do not care unless something is on the line (which there never has been to date).

Wonder if there is a rule about shoving the head of a club up someone's *** for ruining a casual round of golf?  I hate the concept of pairing out of fear of being paired with a rule Nazi such as youself.  In casual golf, worry about your own game.  Only in competition or a bet do you have the right to ruin my round of golf if I do not happen to follow the rules 100%.

We do always play for money so your point is moot.

And besides which, are you telling me that you would rather win by not playing by the rules?

Its not being a Nazi its playing golf, not my interpretation of golf.