How good are hybrids, really?

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'm thinking about taking out my 5 iron for a 27 degree hybrid. Know it's deeply unmanly but, to be honest, I'm finding myself hitting a lot of 180ish approaches right now with a choked-down 24 degree hybrid instead. If it's a critical shot -- over water, say -- I won't even think twice about ditching the iron because I just don't trust it the same way.

And this is from a 4 handicap! What is a 24 handicap doing playing a long iron? Like Butch said in the OP, "crazy."

Stretch, you and I both know that short birdie putts are manly.

[inthehole]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

everyone except the most accomplished player should be using hybrids and carry no iron with a 4, 3, 2, or 1 on it.

no offense, but thats a pretty bold statement.     I could see if you were referring to traditional blade type long irons, but the modern cavity backed long irons are a pleasure to hit & offer much more forgiveness than traditional long irons.    Without exception, my CB 4 iron plays better than the two 4 hybrids I have owned (except out of the rough).    Maybe the integrated hybrids are better, but it's not a one size fits all thing & saying that everyone but the most accomplished player should use them is a tad opinionated ... IMHO, of course

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Chipless,

Your OP says "new to golf." IMHO, everyone except the most accomplished player should be using hybrids and carry no iron with a 4, 3, 2, or 1 on it. I would also make the long-iron exception for those who play in very high winds and are willing to trade a hybrid's forgiveness for a long iron's lower ball flight.

When you are ready to buy clubs, consider an integrated set that seamlessly adds hybrids into the set. As others have said on this thread, hybrids may not be easy to hit but they are easier than the irons they replace.

Adams makes great integrated sets (they may have invented the concept). You will see that Adams makes irons that appear to slowly meld into hybrids as the clubs get longer. The A&OS; set has a 7-hybrid. I also have heard good things about the slightly more "traditional" Mizuno JPX-800HD. The hybrids on the Mizuno set are hybrids of hybrids in that they are shorter and supposed to be even easier to hit than most hybrids. They don't even offer a 3 iron replacement, The hybrids replace the 4 and 5 iron. These integrated sets, targeted at beginner golfers, should tell you something about beginners using hybrids instead of long irons.

http://adamsgolf.com/products/irons/a7os.php

http://www.mizunousa.com/golf/products/mizuno-jpx-800hd-golf-irons

I'm probably not the right person to respond to this since I spent a couple years working on striping a 2-iron and now hitting one feels about as hard as hitting a 9-iron (still don't care for 1-irons - it it's that windy it's time to shut 'er down). but you're starting to sound like someone who's been brainwashed by the equipment manufacturers.

[glock35ipsc]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'm thinking about taking out my 5 iron for a 27 degree hybrid. Know it's deeply unmanly but, to be honest, I'm finding myself hitting a lot of 180ish approaches right now with a choked-down 24 degree hybrid instead. If it's a critical shot -- over water, say -- I won't even think twice about ditching the iron because I just don't trust it the same way.

I'm with you.  If I have a shot that requires the 5 iron, I have always gripped down on the 4 hybrid instead.  I just picked up a 27° Maltby hybrid head off eBay that I am going to put in the bag once the shaft arrives.

I could care less what anyone thinks about what's in my bag, as long as I can play the game with a smile on my face! I usually get a "what the hell is a Maltby?" to which I'll reply "it's not a what, but a who, and he prefers to be called Ralph!"

[zipazoid]

Twenty years ago, when I was 33, I not only had a 2i, 3i & 4i in my bag, I carried a 1 iron. And I could hit them all.

Now I'm 53 & the longest iron in the bag is a 4i, and I am close to removing that for a 4h. I just don't have the clubhead speed anymore. I mean, I can hit a 2i, but it gets about 20 feet off the ground now, flies about 160 and rolls out to 200. Perhaps useful at St. Andrews but not too many other places.

My set now consists of 3 wedges, a 7w & a 3h. I had to play around with the set makeup to get the proper distance gaps. Here's where I presently am:

Driver: 240

3W: 220

3h: 200

7w: 190

4i: 180

5i: 170

6i: 160

7i: 150

8i: 140

9i: 130

PW: 120

GW: 100

SW: 80

So my challenge was filling a 40y gap between my 3w (220) and my 4i (180) with as few clubs as possible, knowing that it couldn't be a 3i & 2i. Enter the 3h. I love it - I hit it 200 consistently & much higher than I could ever hit a 3i. I love my 7w too, as it's versatile..I can feather-cut it 180 with a nice high ball flight or hood the face a little & get it 195.

So. Hybrids are awesome. And in the next couple of years I can see a 4h replacing my 4i.

[k-troop]

Charlie Wi had a 4H (TM Rescue 11) in the bag this weekend.  Used it to birdie the brutal par-3 12th, 205-yds into the wind with the pin tucked about four steps from the front bunker and one of the firmest greens on the course.  I think there were only a handful of 2s on that hole all week, and two were hole-outs from the front bunker.

On this same hole, Phil hit 5-iron well short of the green and Tiger dumped it into the front bunker with a 4-iron.  I only saw one other ball hold the front of the green on Sunday, which actually landed in the strip of rough between the front bunker and the fringe.

Not a bad testament to the utility of utility clubs.

[sean_miller]

Although I'm sure nobody is suggesting the gust of wind that knocked down Phil's ball wouldn't have affected a shot struck with a hybrid or that Tiger shouldn't have either aimed farther right or taken a 3-iron, I'm not sure anyone was saying hybrids have no place for many players either. A couple guys (including me) were questioning the logic that every amateur should ditch his long to mid irons because Butch Harmons says so. Butch Harmon speaks the gospel when it comes to every player's club selection now?

Originally Posted by k-troop

Charlie Wi had a 4H (TM Rescue 11) in the bag this weekend.  Used it to birdie the brutal par-3 12th, 205-yds into the wind with the pin tucked about four steps from the front bunker and one of the firmest greens on the course.  I think there were only a handful of 2s on that hole all week, and two were hole-outs from the front bunker.

On this same hole, Phil hit 5-iron well short of the green and Tiger dumped it into the front bunker with a 4-iron.  Only other ball I saw hold the front of the green on Tuesday was I think Duke's, which actually landed in the strip of rough between the front bunker and the fringe.

Not a bad testament to the utility of utility clubs.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Although I'm sure nobody is suggesting the gust of wind that knocked down Phil's ball wouldn't have affected a shot struck with a hybrid or that Tiger shouldn't have either aimed farther right or taken a 3-iron, I'm not sure anyone was saying hybrids have no place for many players either. A couple guys (including me) were questioning the logic that every amateur should ditch his long to mid irons because Butch Harmons says so. Butch Harmon speaks the gospel when it comes to every player's club selection now?

I'm just making an observation.  The fact is that Charlie Wi hit a 4H and flushed it.  He landed it on the front fringe and held it.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Although I'm sure nobody is suggesting the gust of wind that knocked down Phil's ball wouldn't have affected a shot struck with a hybrid or that Tiger shouldn't have either aimed farther right or taken a 3-iron, I'm not sure anyone was saying hybrids have no place for many players either. A couple guys (including me) were questioning the logic that every amateur should ditch his long to mid irons because Butch Harmons says so. Butch Harmon speaks the gospel when it comes to every player's club selection now?

I'm just making an observation.  The fact is that Charlie Wi hit a 4H and flushed it.  He landed it on the front fringe and held it.

It was a great shot. I a few hybrid and know they can make great shots.

[Shindig]

For example, Y.E. Yang clinched his win over  Tiger in the 2010 US Open with a beautiful hybrid shot to the green.

2009 PGA Championship, but yes, that was a hybrid into the final green -- a beautiful shot that reminded us of Corey Pavin's 1995 U.S. Open victory. Something that kept me from hybrids for a long time was my inability to hit one well. I used an MP FLI-HI for a 3-iron instead and kept the 4 iron from my irons set. Then a friend encouraged me to try his 3-hybrid at the range one day. I knew he played standard length (I'm half an inch under), so I was hesitant. He then encouraged me to grip down on it, effectively making it shorter. I did and was hitting it well. Now I typically carry a 3- and 4-hybrid. I tell that story not to go into my own origin, but because I have seen this a few times in the past: someone with custom-length (fit) irons will try a wood or hybrid off the shelf and have trouble with it. Of course if you're fit to one length, trying to make another length club fit you will be problematic!

[walk18]

I was hooking my hybrid way too much. Now I have a ping HL 4 iron, it has some hybrid qualities like a wide sole, but it's definitely still an iron, so I kind of have the best of both worlds. I'm very happy with it.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by DocWu1948

There does seem to be disagreement over how to hit hybrids. Some say you swing them down like irons. Others say you swing them like woods, It probably also matters what kind of hybrids  you own. Some are like fat irons on steroids. Others look like little woods.

Anyway, I think Harmon isn't wrong.

Agreed.  Not all hybrids are created with the same player profile in mind, yet they are all lopped into the same category.  If you look at irons, they tend to be grouped into separate categories (SGI, GI and Players).  So, it stands to reason that a 5 capper playing blades looking a replacement for say his 3i has some different performance needs than say a 25 capper playing SGI cavity backs looking to replace his 3i.  Hence, if the 5 capper chooses a hybrid that's geared towards the 25 capper and visa versa, both players may not be happy with their respective choices.  Indeed, the 5 capper may find that his hybrid hits the ball too high with the inability to control (lower) the trajectory to his liking.  Also, he may find that the feedback is too muted, so he's constantly looking at the clubface to see where impact was.  In contrast, the 25 capper may find his hybrid hits the ball too low and is actually less forgiving than his 3i.  He may also find that the feedback is too harsh on mis-hits.  As with any club, the key is to be fitted to ensure that you have the right combo of shaft and clubhead for your needs.

I feel the most comfortable with irons.  In fact, I had a driver and then irons (2 -- SW).  However, after a bit of trial and error, I found a fairway wood and hybrid that effectively eliminated my 2 and 3i and my overall results have been better.

[k-troop]

There are different hybrids for different types of games, but I will agree that most are geared similar to the SGI player profile (offset, high launch).  The Adams Idea Pro (Gold; A12 Pro) line are definitely not SGI clubs.  They have small heads, are workable both ways, and depending on the shaft can have high or low trajectory tendencies.  Even though they are designed to mimic an iron, they still distribute the weight to enlarge the sweet spot and take advantage of materials to make the face hotter and more forgiving.

[LuciusWooding]

I agree with Butch's comment on one point, but it's a semantic detail:

Anyone trying to hit a 3/4 iron is crazy. I think he means someone using one and struggling, rather than using one period. In that case, hybrids are fine.

I personally have no trouble at all with my 4 and 5 irons, I only got a 3h because I took everyone's advice, and I doubt I'll be keeping it in the bag long. Lofts below 20* are hard to launch without a hybrid or wood; this is due to the modern ball spinning less and the lofts being lower for a given iron than they were in years past. Tiger Woods commented once that he tried to hit his 1 iron from college with modern balls in preparation for a windy course, but he couldn't hit it high enough no matter what he did. He uses a 2 iron sometimes, but purely for a low trajectory shot. It's used more like a fairway wood in that he doesn't expect to hold greens with it.

For one thing, hitting long irons requires a solid contact, proper swing mechanics, and a decent amount of swing speed is requisite to launch them and generate spin. If you're an old man or don't have a fast swing, by all means get hybrids up to the 6 hybrid. If you're more comfortable with hybrids, or want distance and forgiveness over workability and control, go with hybrids.

I like my long irons since I have a fast swing, and I mildly dislike hybrids in part due to the prevalence of graphite shafts. I hit hybrids long enough and all, but I like the feel and versatility of irons.

To play devil's advocate: consider the fact that hybrids usually cost a lot more than a typical iron, have a pricy graphite shaft, and aren't adjustable for fitting, in most cases.

[GaijinGolfer]

Most people find hybrids to be easier to hit than long irons and more versatile than fairway woods.  IMO, especially for a new player hybrids can be a great thing because the make it so much easier to get the ball up in the air and they work well out of the rough.

Personally, I learned the game with fairway woods and irons and really never have been very good with hybrids.  Ive just never gotten to the point where I felt as confident with one as I do with an iron.  I see that big head and my instinct is to want to sweep it like a fairway wood and hybrids just arent designed to work that way.

[darkstar76]

I'm in the exact same category as Beachcomber...have 3H & 5H to achieve the same distances & results. They are my favorite clubs in the bag. Now, I will say not all hybrids are the same. I had an '08 Callaway FT hybrid that I gave away b/c I couldn't hit it worth a damn. I have TM Burner 2.0 hybrids & they are the easiest, most consistent clubs ever in my hands.

There is a reason Tour pros carry hybrids in their bags...

[iacas]

I carry a 3-iron and a 4-iron. I have one hybrid in my bag, and it narrowly replaces a 2-iron.

Why? Because I can hit the 3-iron and the 4-iron, and they're more versatile clubs in terms of trajectory than a hybrid.

That's all.

[Paradox]

If you can hit your 3 or 4 or even a 2 iron, then Butch wasn't talking about you..like someone a few posts ago said..he's referring to people who can't hit those irons worth a crap but continue to swing away gouging divots like crazy.  THOSE are the ones who benefit from a hybrid.  I carry a 19* TM hybrid because when I mishit a drive, its usually gonna be a long way from the whole and I get more distance with a Hybrid from the rough than I do from an iron..and I can also work it better.  I've hit everything from monster hooks around trees, low hooks under trees, high draws, low draws, and the same with fades and slices.  It is just a club that suits me better because I am one of those that wouldn't be able to hit a 4 or 3 iron successfully more than once out of every 20 swings.

I think that the people who have a problem with hooking hybrids should really check into "player hybrids" like the TP line from TM, VR Pro's and so on...they are set up neutral to open and would probably make a difference.