2012 Honda Classic Discussion Thread

[jamo]

10 fairways, 15 greens:  not bad. 34 putts:  not good.  Why in the heck would the greatest putter in the game change his putting? [URL=http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7624365/tiger-putting-woes]http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7624365/tiger-putting-woes[/URL]

Because it's been terrible lately? His putting started slipping long before he ever started tweaking it.

[topspin4hand]

I have to see how many short putts he missed but I saw a lot of 30+ foot putts on shot tracker.  He needs to stick some of those approaches.

Originally Posted by k-troop

10 fairways, 15 greens:  not bad.

34 putts:  not good.

Why in the heck would the greatest putter in the game change his putting?

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7624365/tiger-putting-woes

[Chilli Dipper]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

How about Love with the ace at #5 now at -4 with Pernice, Rory M., and Rose following.  Sabatini had it going early birdieing 4/7 and then going bogey bogey for a -2.

If you asked me for the craziest potential 2012 storyline which I thought was plausible, it would have been this: Davis Love picks up a win during the Florida swing, finishes in the top 10 in the Masters, and creates talk of whether the Ryder Cup captain would use a Captain's pick on himself.

[jhwmusic]

I hear this is a "Home Game" for a lot of the players?! Despite LOVING the fact that its Nobilo announcing and not Faldo, he needs to stop with the home game talk....he said it about every other golfer. Thank you, Captain Obvious! Half of the PGA Tour lives in Jupiter or 2 hours down the road in Orlando.

[Canuck]

Another great showing for Rory. Hope he can pull out another round in the 60's tomorrow. Im sure Tiger will have a bounce back round tomorrow. Great to see Davis Love III at the top of the leader board again, also hope he can keep it up tomorrow and through the weekend.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by jamo

Because it's been terrible lately? His putting started slipping long before he ever started tweaking it.

I don't know when the consensus view is of when it started "slipping."  He had his game together for a few events in 2011, but couldn't get it done on the greens.  It's hard to judge his putting for most of 2010/11 when he was injured or hitting the ball sideways (or hitting 75-yard pop-ups with his 3-wood).  But that's clearly no longer the issue:  his putting--not the swing changes--is what's holding him back now.

I'd heard sometime mid last year that he changed his stroke, but I hadn't seen anything written on it.  It definitely looks quick on the short ones.

But he obviously changed his putter in 2010, so we can surmise that he saw a reason to change then.  I've heard people talk about the heavier weight of the Nike putter, etc--but the fact is that his Cameron putter won a whole lot of tournaments.  His putting was never the problem--his putting saved him when his body failed.  It doesn't make sense to me that he would scrap the only part of his game that he could count on even when his swing was completely gone.

He won a US Open with a broken leg using that putter.

(Edit:  just realized that I'm contributing to yet another thread turning towards "all about Tiger."  Not my intention.  The putting change really bugs me though.  I wish someone would ask him, and he'd be honest about what's going through his mind.)

[TourSpoon]

Along with a couple other tournaments...I have wondered the same thing. There never was a question when he stood over a ball.

[WWBDD]

No one's swing and/or putting stroke has been so scrutinized ... getting pretty boring actually.

On the bright side, Rory's right near the top of the leaderboard yet again ... top money earner this year easily if he keeps this up. I'm sure he will.

And John Huh ... wtf? Household name already.

[brocks]

Tiger was flirting with the cut line, but closed with a couple of birdies, so he'll play this weekend. Amazingly, his driving is now the strongest part of his game. He's hitting it as far as anyone, and his misses are mostly a matter of running out of fairway, rather than being way off line. His putting today wasn't bad, but he didn't have many looks. His wedge game is way off. Any pro, let alone Tiger, should be able to get it within ten feet from a hundred yards, but he isn't doing it. The poor Argentinian who suddenly found himself playing with Tiger and Westwood simply couldn't handle it. He finished 16 over, DFL.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by brocks

Tiger was flirting with the cut line, but closed with a couple of birdies, so he'll play this weekend. Amazingly, his driving is now the strongest part of his game. He's hitting it as far as anyone, and his misses are mostly a matter of running out of fairway, rather than being way off line.

His putting today wasn't bad, but he didn't have many looks. His wedge game is way off. Any pro, let alone Tiger, should be able to get it within ten feet from a hundred yards, but he isn't doing it.

The poor Argentinian who suddenly found himself playing with Tiger and Westwood simply couldn't handle it. He finished 16 over, DFL.

The only thing about Tiger's ballstriking that is currently lacking seems to be distance control.  I've heard that Nike 20Xi ball is explosive but difficult to dial back, which could be contributing to the problem.

His putting was much better today:  24 putts vs. 34 yesterday.  Today he had 10 birdie putts and made 5 of them with no 3-putts.  I didn't watch, so don't know how close he was hitting it--but that's definitely a victory over yesterday and last week.  6/8 in scrambling as well, so it seems (but I don't know how many of the missed GIRs were actually putts from the fringe).

If he can make it through the weekend with 55 putts or less (or 30/day or less with 14 or more GIRs), I might start to believe he's capable of winning again.

[iPutt]

Tiger is still losing 1.48 strokes to the field in putting. By comparison, the leader, Tom Gillis, is gaining 4.154 strokes putting.

[jamo]

The only thing about Tiger's ballstriking that is currently lacking seems to be distance control.  I've heard that Nike 20Xi ball is explosive but difficult to dial back, which could be contributing to the problem. His putting was much better today:  24 putts vs. 34 yesterday.  Today he had 10 birdie putts and made 5 of them with no 3-putts.  I didn't watch, so don't know how close he was hitting it--but that's definitely a victory over yesterday and last week.  6/8 in scrambling as well, so it seems (but I don't know how many of the missed GIRs were actually putts from the fringe).    If he can make it through the weekend with 55 putts or less (or 30/day or less with 14 or more GIRs), I might start to believe he's capable of winning again.

His website, which is usually pretty up to date, still has Tiger using the One Tour D.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by brocks

His wedge game is way off. Any pro, let alone Tiger, should be able to get it within ten feet from a hundred yards, but he isn't doing it.

You vastly over-estimate the abilities of PGA Tour players.

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?074

One guy - Greg Chalmers with only seven attempts from 100-125 yards - gets it inside of 10 feet on average. The median value is almost 21'.

And that's this year. Go back to 2011. Luke Donald unsurprisingly led the PGA Tour in this category last year (Zach Johnson and Justin Leonard were T2 one inch farther away). His average? Sixteen feet, four inches. The median value was again around 20-21'.

So let's not be unreasonable, eh?

[Shindig]

Tiger was flirting with the cut line, but closed with a couple of birdies, so he'll play this weekend.

Thank goodness Tiger knows when it is and isn't okay to flirt! Meanwhile, Brian Harman was flirting with a 59 before settling for a 61 - new course record by 3 - after a par on the par-5 final hole.

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by jamo

His website, which is usually pretty up to date, still has Tiger using the One Tour D.

Good info.  Whether it's the ball or something else, I think distance control is all that's lacking in his ballstriking.  And honestly, I don't know how anyone can putt well with that ball because the cover is so stiff.

Originally Posted by iacas

You vastly over-estimate the abilities of PGA Tour players.

We're not talking about Tour players, we're talking about Tiger.  He should be averaging less than six feet.

[k-troop]

WTF.  Three people managed to shoot 64 in the first five years of competetion at this course.  So far halfway through 2 rounds, they've had four 64s and a 61???

[brocks]

You vastly over-estimate the abilities of PGA Tour players. [URL=http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?074]http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?074[/URL] One guy - Greg Chalmers with only seven attempts from 100-125 yards - gets it inside of 10 feet on average. The median value is almost 21'. And that's this year. Go back to 2011. Luke Donald unsurprisingly led the PGA Tour in this category last year (Zach Johnson and Justin Leonard were T2 one inch farther away). His average? Sixteen feet, four inches. The median value was again around 20-21'. So let's not be unreasonable, eh? :-)

Do you happen to know whether the stats you quote include every shot from that range, or only shots from the fairway? I frequently hear the announcers, who presumably know what pros can do, say that X would expect to get inside 10 feet from a good lie at 100 yards. But if the stats include shots from thick rough or waste areas, then of course they will bring the average up.

[brocks]

WTF.  Three people managed to shoot 64 in the first five years of competetion at this course.  So far halfway through 2 rounds, they've had four 64s and a 61???

Yesterday they were playing ball in hand, so that helped. But today they aren't, so I agree that unless they made the pins a lot easier or something, it's hard to figure.