Ball flight laws and misinformation

[mdl]

Try this thread: Gear Effect Pop Quiz

Thanks for the link.  I'd heard of gear effect but never seen that helpful visual that makes it clear what's happening.

[iacas]

No one?  The only threads that edge toward anger or at least umbrage taking these days are political ones where you sensibly never chime in.  We need more threads with a simple golf/physics fact being disputed where we get grumpy Erik smackdowns!

I don't miss them. Saving my grumpy Erik for those who act up in junior camps. :)

On a more serious note, I'm sure these have been covered here somewhere at some point, but I can't find it and don't remember.  What are the effects of off center contact on ball flight (generally, I assume there will be some differences between the effects with different club heads, and maybe shafts and swing speeds)?  I'm thinking in terms of a few examples you gave above giving the ball flight effects of different face and path angles.  What happens if you throw in a relatively extreme non-shank heel strike, or a strike well out towards the toe, but still fully on the club face, not a squibber off the toe edge of the face?

Basically, and more so with drivers than woods, and more so with woods than irons, right on down the line…

- Strikes toward the heel start left (for a righty) and have more bias toward cut spin.

- Strikes toward the toe start right (righty) and have more bias toward draw spin.

Funny, ive never seen anyone hit a fade by swinging right, and never seen a draw from swinging out to in, isnt the worlds biggest golf affliction the big slice? Starting left and curving way right, according to these new theories how could that even be romotely possible?

You don't seem to have understood the very basic, simple stuff we're talking about:

- A ball that starts left has a face that's left.

- If it slices right from there, that means the path is farther left than that.

Face: -4°

Path: -10°

There's a pull-slice.

Please read up on this. The information is out there. For example… Ball Flight Laws .

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daa1969

Funny, ive never seen anyone hit a fade by swinging right, and never seen a draw from swinging out to in, isnt the worlds biggest golf affliction the big slice? Starting left and curving way right, according to these new theories how could that even be romotely possible?

You don't seem to have understood the very basic, simple stuff we're talking about:

- A ball that starts left has a face that's left.

- If it slices right from there, that means the path is farther left than that.

Face: -4°

Path: -10°

There's a pull-slice.

Please read up on this. The information is out there. For example… Ball Flight Laws.

Plus, I guess he's never heard of Jack Nicklaus.

[Mac62]

Funny, ive never seen anyone hit a fade by swinging right, and never seen a draw from swinging out to in, isnt the worlds biggest golf affliction the big slice? Starting left and curving way right, according to these new theories how could that even be romotely possible?

Try this with your putter:  Aim the face left and make an outside to inside stroke at a ball.  Make sure the face is to the left of the club path, not just left of perpendicular.  Tell us which way the ball travels off your putter face.  Clubface determines the initial direction of a ball, just as Erik said.

Also, you do realize there's a difference between a pull slice and a push slice, right?

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Funny, ive never seen anyone hit a fade by swinging right, and never seen a draw from swinging out to in, isnt the worlds biggest golf affliction the big slice? Starting left and curving way right, according to these new theories how could that even be romotely possible?

I regularly hit a draw from swinging out to in. There are videos of it in my my swing thread. I set up aligned right. I swing across my body with my club face closed to path.

[daa1969]

I have a question for everyone? There are some on this site that insist im wrong, but im having a hard time believing. I say the ball starts on the path you swing and direction is determined by the face, they are trying to tell me im completely wrong. I said but a draw, not a hook or pull, a perfect hit draw comes from an in to out path with the face closed to that path, a fade would be out to in with face open to path, the push would be in to out with face square to path, push slice in to out with open face, pull is out to in with face square to path, slice is out to in with open face, and a hook is face way too closed with any swing path, have i lost my mind cuz theyre insisting im wrong, theyre trying to say its only the face that matters and worse part is they say the slice is out to in with closed face, why then are we taught than in bunker or flop shot we aim left, open face, and swing left? I feel like im in a twilight zone!

[newtogolf]

I have a question for everyone? There are some on this site that insist im wrong, but im having a hard time believing. I say the ball starts on the path you swing and direction is determined by the face, they are trying to tell me im completely wrong. I said but a draw, not a hook or pull, a perfect hit draw comes from an in to out path with the face closed to that path, a fade would be out to in with face open to path, the push would be in to out with face square to path, push slice in to out with open face, pull is out to in with face square to path, slice is out to in with open face, and a hook is face way too closed with any swing path, have i lost my mind cuz theyre insisting im wrong, theyre trying to say its only the face that matters and worse part is they say the slice is out to in with closed face, why then are we taught than in bunker or flop shot we aim left, open face, and swing left? I feel like im in a twilight zone!

Maybe this will help,

[iacas]

I say the ball starts on the path you swing and direction is determined by the face, they are trying to tell me im completely wrong.

You are wrong. Did you watch the video?

I said but a draw, not a hook or pull, a perfect hit draw comes from an in to out path with the face closed to that path

Nobody here says any differently.

Assuming a righty for everything in this post…

A "perfect" draw is hit with a face pointing RIGHT of the target at impact, and a path just a little farther right than the face (thus "path in to out" relative to target line, and face "closed" relative to path).

the push would be in to out with face square to path

Yes but it's the face that makes the ball push, and the path (relative to that face) that makes the ball go pretty straight.

push slice in to out with open face

Not necessarily. You could easily hit a push-slice with the path left of the target line (i.e. "out to in.").

Here's how (again 0° is the target line, + is right, - is left):

Face: +6°

Path: -3°.

Bam! Push-slice, path "out to in" or "left" of the target line.

slice is out to in with open face

Open to the path, yes, but most slices are hit with a clubface left of the target line:

Path: -10°.

Face: -5°.

Face is "open" to path but points left of target line.

theyre trying to say its only the face that matters and worse part is they say the slice is out to in with closed face, why then are we taught than in bunker or flop shot we aim left, open face, and swing left? I feel like im in a twilight zone!

You're not in a twilight zone, you're just not understanding some very simple stuff, and you're confusing yourself by not referencing something static, like the target line. Out to in relative to what? Face "closed" relative to what?

Here are three slices:

Pull-Slice (Ball starts left, curves right)

Face: -5°

Path: -10°

"Straight Slice" (Ball starts toward target, curves right)

- Face: +1°

- Path: -5°

Push-Slice (Ball starts right, curves farther right)

- Face: +4°

- Path: -2°

This is also a push-slice:

- Face: +4°

- Path: 0°

So is this:

- Face: +6°

- Path: +2°

This is known stuff. Fact.

If you read the article, we prefer to use the words "right" and "left" to refer to stuff relative to the target line, and reserve "open" and "closed" for things relative to the path.

In other words, good draws that finish for right-handed golfers at the target are hit with a clubface pointing to the RIGHT of the target at impact. Good fades are hit with a clubface aimed LEFT of the target at impact. The path is simply farther right and farther left, respectively, for each.

[mvmac]

I have a question for everyone? There are some on this site that insist im wrong, but im having a hard time believing.

The instructor that taught you that path determines start line was incorrect. It's ok because that was the norm, I was taught the same thing growing up.

Ball starts where the face is pointed and curves away from the path.

@iacas made a good post, read it over a couple times.