Who wins too much?

[Beachcomber]

To expand on the point on Fowler... Again he doesn't need to win.  He could be like Penny Hardaway or Larry Johnson was to the NBA... Two guys who were big names in the NBA, but never won titles.  But they did influence and draw people to the game of basketball.  Nike and Converse did a great job of bringing attention to their respective brands, using these two players talents.

[newtogolf]

I'll agree that Rickie doesn't have to win right now, but he is going to get older.  Eventually, despite the flat brimmed hats and pink and orange shirts he's not going to be embraced by the younger demographics.  He's going to need to win if he's going to maintain his popularity within the PGA.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

To expand on the point on Fowler... Again he doesn't need to win.  He could be like Penny Hardaway or Larry Johnson was to the NBA... Two guys who were big names in the NBA, but never won titles.  But they did influence and draw people to the game of basketball.  Nike and Converse did a great job of bringing attention to their respective brands, using these two players talents.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I think Rickie Fowler is great for golf.  He brings a new demographic to the game - or at least maybe influence them to turn the golf channel on to watch him play.  He doesn't necessarily need to win.  As long as he is getting top 25's, he will be featured or shown on TV.

But what is funny, or, rather revealing, is how many Tiger haters claim that they disliked Tiger from the start because he got "undeserved" endorsements and sponsorships when he turned pro before he had won anything yet you don't hear anyone really hating on Fowler for that.  Especially considering that Tiger had the best amateur career since Bobby Jones and then started winning almost immediately while Fowler is more of a flounderer who still hasn't won a thing.  And his ridiculous dress is enough to make people dislike him.

BTW, did anyone notice how subdued Poulter's clothes were at Bay Hill?  Maybe he has decided that he should worry more about his golf game than making a sartorial statement?

[x129]

Golf is not a team sport.  If Fowler doesn't win he becomes Anna Kournikova. To be fair I am guessing Anna made more money than any other female tennis star during her run.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

To expand on the point on Fowler... Again he doesn't need to win.  He could be like Penny Hardaway or Larry Johnson was to the NBA... Two guys who were big names in the NBA, but never won titles.  But they did influence and draw people to the game of basketball.  Nike and Converse did a great job of bringing attention to their respective brands, using these two players talents.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by x129

Golf is not a team sport.  If Fowler doesn't win he becomes Anna Kournikova. To be fair I am guessing Anna made more money than any other female tennis star during her run.

Ricky is prettier than Anna.

[Shorty]

To expand on my earlier comment about Michael Campbell, before he injured his hand, which was quite early in his career, Campbell was one of the most naturally gifted and best players I ever saw.

I watched him going head to head with Norman and at that stage I would have bet money on him becoming a world beater. Unfortunately, he threw away a British Open and he never really played injury free.

I promis eyou - at his best, he was as good a player as you'd ever hope to see.  His U.S. Open win was not a fluke or an aberration, it's just tragic that his game went south after it and that he refused to give up. Let's not diss him for it.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Shows how much you know.

You got me on that one.  I remember very little of Michael Campbell other than he didn't win any other PGA tournaments besides the US Open (and I had to use Wikipedia for that info).  I did not do any research to learn of his injuries, nor did I even notice that he won several times on the European Tour.  For that, I apologize (just in case Mr. Campbell reads this forum).

However, my answers were intended in the spirit of the OP's original post ... as he stated - tongue in cheek.  I think his question was really rhetorical and just pointing out the hyperbole some announcers like to prefer.

[brocks]

The thing about golf though is that typically the outcome of tournaments arent decided by refs or rules officals, so you cant really say that anyone is ever handed a win.

As a matter of fact, Tiger's second pro win was handed to him by rules officials. It's a very sad story. A 29-year-old PGA rookie named Taylor Smith shot a 67 to tie for first with Tiger at the '96 Disney. His wife was bouncing up and down with joy, telling everyone around her that they were finally going to be able to buy a house. But the playoff never happened. One of Smith's competitors, a journeyman named Lennie Clements, noticed that Smith's putter had an illegal flat grip, and complained to the officials. Smith was DQ'd, Tiger got the win, and Smith got zero bucks. Both he and his wife were devastated. He lost his card the next year, gave up pro golf the year after that, and ended up working as a caddie in Houston. He was talking about making a comeback, but died suddenly at age 40, of complications from pancreatitis.

[Zeph]

Rules are rules. If you want to win, abide by them. It is of course a sad story, but that's the way it goes. Tiger won because Smith didn't follow the rules. As long as a player is not wrongly penalized, I'm fine with it. Just like I'm fine with the ruling on Dustin Johnson.

[BruceMGF]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Ricky is prettier than Anna.

What about Natalie Gulbis?

Oh, wait, she finally won a tournament.  Never mind.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by x129

Golf is not a team sport.  If Fowler doesn't win he becomes Anna Kournikova. To be fair I am guessing Anna made more money than any other female tennis star during her run.

I didn't say golf was a team sport.  Fowler could be a Kardashian.  He already has peoples attention and could never win a golf tournament and still make millions - off the course.  Because people like him and are interested in him.  He has his own brand, and that will sell.

[Old1964]

Originally Posted by BruceMGF

Well, sports is a zero-sum thingy.  If someone wins more, others win less, no?

In case anyone hasn't picked up on  it, there's a tongue-in-cheek point to my question.  I agree that it's a stretch to call any win undeserved.  Even Goalby in the 1968 Masters.

But when announcers go on about how many wins so-and-so ought to have, I wonder what tournaments they're supposed to have won and what happens to those who did win them.  There don't seem to be enough tournaments to go around for all the ones golf announcers say should be being won.

Indeed a golf tourney is a zero-sum gain event, but (I humbly suggest that) you logic is flawed.

You are assuming that what the "announcers" say makes any sense or is true at all.

[xxsoultonesxx]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I think Rickie Fowler is great for golf.  He brings a new demographic to the game - or at least maybe influence them to turn the golf channel on to watch him play.  He doesn't necessarily need to win.  As long as he is getting top 25's, he will be featured or shown on TV.

For instance, I played a round at Wood Ranch this past weekend up in Simi Valley... And there was a kid probably ~ 12yrs old who had that smurf blue Puma shirt/hat and pants on and looked like little Rickie Fowler.  He was on the putting green and the guys in our foursome all kind of snickered.  But when I thought about it... It's great that kids are picking up interest in golf because of guys like Fowler.  I mean think of it this way... If Fowler didn't attract these kids into golf... They may be out playing basketball, baseball, football, tennis or soccer.

And EA putting Fowler on the front of the Tiger Woods golf game - just helps grow interest.... I'm hoping guys like Cantlay, Cauley and others help spark interest too.

To the OP's question though... The only person who has won too much?  I've never thought about this, but I would say that guys like Couples, Love, Vijay, Els, Curtis Strange may have won a lot less if there were more guys like Tiger, Rose, Bubba, Webb, Rory and Keegan Bradley on tour when they were in their prime.

There was a time when golf was missing a super star - and many of the names above took advantage of that time in history.

Agreed!

I'm not sure a person can "win too much". Having any sort of dominant player is good for the game and the viewer. Us die hards might find it slightly more interesting having less predictable names on top of leaderboards, but who is to say what is too much?

Personally I would be absolutely amazed to see Tiger go on a multi-season tear again and make some people his bitch. Would that be winning too much? Or would too many other tour players have their little dreams shattered? I don't think so. All it would do is draw attention and money to the game we all love, and I just don't have any issue with that.

Not sure exactly what kind of point OP is trying to make here.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by brocks

As a matter of fact, Tiger's second pro win was handed to him by rules officials.

It's a very sad story. A 29-year-old PGA rookie named Taylor Smith shot a 67 to tie for first with Tiger at the '96 Disney. His wife was bouncing up and down with joy, telling everyone around her that they were finally going to be able to buy a house.

But the playoff never happened. One of Smith's competitors, a journeyman named Lennie Clements, noticed that Smith's putter had an illegal flat grip, and complained to the officials. Smith was DQ'd, Tiger got the win, and Smith got zero bucks. Both he and his wife were devastated.

He lost his card the next year, gave up pro golf the year after that, and ended up working as a caddie in Houston. He was talking about making a comeback, but died suddenly at age 40, of complications from pancreatitis.

Wow...I never knew that. How terrible.

[CreamerFan]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

IMO with Tiger appearing to be back in winning form and Rory playing well, Rickie becomes less important to golf.  If Tiger didn't find his swing or was injured, the thought was Rickie could increase interest in golf with the younger and female demographics

I don't know! I was at a golf store and the pro there said all the kids coming in are asking where all the puma stuff is.  Kids can't relate to Tiger anymore.  I still think Ricky nees to win pretty soon because he does bring kids and  females to the game.