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Dave

Why don't pros play SGI irons?

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Originally Posted by WUTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Ernie was with TaylorMade until 2003, then he went to Titleist. ...

mv,

The Big Bertha notes came from a presentation by a well-respected golf industry source. I'll have to do some backtracking, maybe the source got the names scrambled. Thanks for heads up.


No problem, this is a good resource if your a wacko like me :)  http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language;=en-US&family;=editorial&p;=ernie+els+2000&assetType;=image#4

Just typed in "Ernie Els 2000" into search and 6 pages came up

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Originally Posted by bwdial

Someone that knows more about physics can probably explain it better, but I think it has something to do with the center of gravity no only being low, but also being deep behind the clubface.  It's kind of like a wooden driver versus a modern driver.  The closer the center of gravity is to the face, the easier it is to curve the ball.

Of course, I could be wrong... but that's how it was explained to me.

VCoG and RCoG will have more affect on trajectory.  A CoG that is higher and closer to the face will produce a lower trajectory.  A CoG low and rearward in the head will produce a higher trajectory.

Curving the ball is all about face angle at impact relative to path direction.  85% of the ball's initial direction is determined by the clubface angle and only 15% of the ball flight is determined by the path.  Curving the ball is pretty straightforward.... for a righty to draw/hook the ball, club face is closed the the path.  An open face relative to the path will fade/slice.

Pros irons, or SGI irons, it's still works the same..... strike the ball with the center of the face, and the ball will start in the direction the face is pointing, and will curve relative to the face angle/path.  Where the SGI irons differ is that off-center strikes will fly less off-line because SGI heads are generally built around a higher MOI, or the ability to resist twisting about it's CoG.

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Shindig I couldn't get the quote to pick up your question. Blade size accounts for much of the feel advantage in players clubs, also a smaller club rotates marginally quicker, allows hands and feel to be a bigger part of trouble shots and of course bad lies. . Maybe not as big a deal as it once was but the best players are sensitive to even small differences.

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Most pros don't play SGI for the aforementioned reasons. However, I remember K.J. Choi playing with with a 3,4,and a 5 hybrid last year instead of long irons.

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On 4/12/2012 at 11:36 AM, LuciusWooding said:

No distance control.

No ability to hit a low shot.

Large head is bad for trouble lies.

Offset causes massive hooks and requires a weak slicer's swing to work.

Offset causes more shanks.

Offset throws off timing and feel.

Pressing the offset out of a cast club, or even a forged one, doesn't work as well as you think it does. It will either snap clean off, fatigue the metal, or mess up the hosel/shaft. Some SGI irons have around half an inch of offset, and set up closed to boot.

Sweet spot is in a different spot (out in center/toe) than the heel side of center typical of blades.

Only one way to set up; square and flat due to wide soles and offset.

Hits the ball too high, loses distance and control.

Suck balls in the wind.

Many SGI irons have "hot spots" and cause random +10 yards, not good for distance control.

No feedback.

Look off at address for better players.

Looks bad, feels bad, makes you feel bad, uncool, not as shiny as blades.

No amount of forgiveness and MOI helps a real miss.

Pros don't prioritize forgiveness and therefore don't need to compromise playability.

They are paid hundreds of millions of dollars as a whole to play the gear they do.

Bubba uses G20, which are SGI in my book. But most pros choose the irons they do for a reason.

SGI irons are designed for hacks. Better player's irons are designed to fit the needs of better players.

Should you screw with literally every spec of a club designed for hacks, or just design a club that works for better players? The players often help design the damn things and can get literally whatever they want, even like Rickie Fowler getting Cobra to custom design copies of his old Titleist blades that aren't sold to the public. If they wanted more forgiveness they would design the clubs with different specs, but they don't. Same reason hackers don't buy blades and get them bent strong, offset added, etc.

If everything you say is true, then NOBODY should be playing SGIs, with all those disadvantages framed up like that... 

The problem with your theory is that MOST golfers play BETTER with GIs and SGIs, once they try them out for a while...  

It used to be the case that pros (who are NOT practical models for most players to emulate, anyway, given their extreme gifts and massively focused dedication and TIME investment in this funny little game) didn't play hybrids, either, and didn't play graphite shafts, for most of the above "reasons" you stated; even that is changing, however.  Does that mean that you and I shouldn't play hybrids or graphite shafts?  

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

If everything you say is true, then NOBODY should be playing SGIs, with all those disadvantages framed up like that... 

The problem with your theory is that MOST golfers play BETTER with GIs and SGIs, once they try them out for a while...  

It used to be the case that pros (who are NOT practical models for most players to emulate, anyway, given their extreme gifts and massively focused dedication and TIME investment in this funny little game) didn't play hybrids, either, and didn't play graphite shafts, for most of the above "reasons" you stated; even that is changing, however.  Does that mean that you and I shouldn't play hybrids or graphite shafts?  

You are replying to a really old thread. 2012.

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41 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

You are replying to a really old thread. 2012.

Yeah, I know, but I'm new to SandTrap, and plus this issue keeps coming up over and over again even quite recently.  I just did a search on the issue and this old thread came up, and I've had some long thoughts about it so I posted.  

 

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On 4/12/2012 at 2:29 PM, Shorty said:

Would you drive a 4WD which you hated the look of and didn't enjoy driving because once every couple of years you wanted to drive over a curb or a branch on the road?

Pros don't use SGI irons becuase they don't need or want them.

The feel of a normal club hit in the centre is different from that of an SGI club hit in or near the centre.

And hitting it high is an advantage on some courses. Most players are looking for a lower ball flight.

I heard long ago that better players hit their long irons high, and their short irons low. For pro grade players this can be accomplished with club head speed. The greater the ball speed off the club face, the higher it will fly. So, the pros manipulate their swings in a way that will bring approach shots in lower. We've all seen them hit those low shots into the green that hop, skip, jump, and then slam on the brakes within one putt distance of the hole! 

Back when I could actually play this game a little bit, I played a set of muscleback irons. I still have them and the club heads are so ridiculously small it's laughable! But, if you have the skill to strike the ball near the sweet spot, bringing all that mass directly behind the ball, it will go like crazy! 

That's where the pros live.

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