I've got a feeling about Rory Mcilroy...

[BuckeyeNut]

I remember VIVIDLY when tiger turned pro and the old school pro's ripped Tigers "hello world" entrance at the Milwaukee Open with a vengeance.   I remember when my local cable company first started carrying the golf channel in 1996........the established pro's were really ripping him good.   The theme was the same.............. "this punk kid has done nothing on tour and he will change his tune once we give him a thorough beat-down and bring him back town to earth" ......The golf channel is too kind, because they virtually never re-air these old interviews of the established pro's.  I specifically remember interviews with Scott Hoch, Curtis Strange, Lanny Watkins and others talking big-time trash................

These interviews would make an interesting golf channel special! I remember them vividly.....they were brutal.  So brutal that it would be an embarrassment for these established pros 'of the era' to watch them after the fact.   The funny thing is I am no tiger lover......I lost all respect for him after 2009 as a person, but I can respect his dominance in the world of golf.   No grey area there......

[Ben]

  BuckeyeNut said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

I remember VIVIDLY when tiger turned pro and the old school pro's ripped Tigers "hello world" entrance at the Milwaukee Open with a vengeance.   I remember when my local cable company first started carrying the golf channel in 1996........the established pro's were really ripping him good.   The theme was the same.............."this punk kid has done nothing on tour and he will change his tune once we give him a thorough beat-down and bring him back town to earth"......The golf channel is too kind, because they virtually never re-air these old interviews of the established pro's.  I specifically remember interviews with Scott Hoch, Curtis Strange, Lanny Watkins and others talking big-time trash................

These interviews would make an interesting golf channel special! I remember them vividly.....they were brutal.  So brutal that it would be an embarrassment for these established pros 'of the era'  to watch them after the fact.   The funny thing is I am no tiger lover......I lost all respect for him after 2009 as a person, but I can respect his dominance in the world of golf.   No grey area there......

Off the original subject, but I too remember some pretty harsh comments when I was at the Nissan Open at Riviera when he got a sponsors exemption at 16yo...It wasn't many guys, but I remember a few, and they weren't being very nice.

[Shorty]

No point discussing it in terms of victories and majors.

The fact of the matter is, at 16 years of age he was the most exciting player on the planet by a million miles next to Tiger.

Obviously his 12 top 3s in his last 16 tournaments or whatever it is isn't impressive enough for some, but any non golfer could watch a thousand guys lined up hitting balls and he is the only one who would stand out as having something extra.

There is noone in the same stratosphere as McIlroy in terms of power, grace, excitement and sheer ability on a golf course.

I doubt whether anyone will eclipse Nicklaus or Woods' records, but if you're looking for the best golfer on the planet, it's McIlroy and then daylight.

[CraiginKSA]

Some people play the game.  A select few change the way the game is played.  Harry Vardon did it, Ben Hogan did it, Arnie did it, Jack did it, Tiger did it.

I don't see Rory as a game changer.  Sure he's number one.  So was Martin Kaymer.  He's got mad skills, but he's not Tiger or Jack.  He's more Phil or Nick.  Great talent, great work ethic, a guy you can root for, but is he that much better than Luke Donald, or Hunter Mahan, or Jason Duffner?  All of the latest youngsters on the tour are a direct result of Tiger showing the way.

In baseball we call an extraordinary player a five-tool guy - hit for power, hit for average, catch, throw, run.  I submit that in golf we have six tools - drive for distance, drive for accuracy, irons, short game, putting and course management/mental toughness.  Tiger is/was a six tool guy.  Jack probably five tool (he didn't need a short game, cuz he seemingly never missed a green! I mean seriously.  Have you ever seen Jack get up and down?).  Phil, four tools (his course management is awful and he's wild off the tee).  Rory is maybe four tool - course management and putting are not world class.  I see him winning a Faldo-like six majors or so.  There's too much money and too much talent-leveling equipment out there for him to dominate without being significantly longer and straighter than everyone else.

[soon_tourpro]

50% wins or 3 majors a year or such then we can talk.

[LuciusWooding]

  CraiginKSA said:

Originally Posted by CraiginKSA

Some people play the game.  A select few change the way the game is played.  Harry Vardon did it, Ben Hogan did it, Arnie did it, Jack did it, Tiger did it.

I don't see Rory as a game changer.  Sure he's number one.  So was Martin Kaymer.  He's got mad skills, but he's not Tiger or Jack.  He's more Phil or Nick.  Great talent, great work ethic, a guy you can root for, but is he that much better than Luke Donald, or Hunter Mahan, or Jason Duffner?  All of the latest youngsters on the tour are a direct result of Tiger showing the way.

In baseball we call an extraordinary player a five-tool guy - hit for power, hit for average, catch, throw, run.  I submit that in golf we have six tools - drive for distance, drive for accuracy, irons, short game, putting and course management/mental toughness.  Tiger is/was a six tool guy.  Jack probably five tool (he didn't need a short game, cuz he seemingly never missed a green! I mean seriously.  Have you ever seen Jack get up and down?).  Phil, four tools (his course management is awful and he's wild off the tee).  Rory is maybe four tool - course management and putting are not world class.  I see him winning a Faldo-like six majors or so.  There's too much money and too much talent-leveling equipment out there for him to dominate without being significantly longer and straighter than everyone else.

You're nuts. You're calling McIlroy Faldo-like? Faldo does not obliterate every elite golfer in the world by 8 shots at a US Open. And mentioning Faldo and Mickelson in the same breath is likely to cause a volatile reaction. You could not pick 2 players with more opposing styles. Phil never takes his foot off the gas, always goes for the hero shot, etc. Faldo always lays up and plays not to lose. Rory is a bit of a tempered Phil, he hits 3 wood a lot and manages his way around the course pretty well, but he has the ability to hit some amazing shots that Faldo simply never had in his bag. It's easy to take the safe play when you can't reach the green anyway. Rory has a set of cajones and will try some shots that might have risk, but can pull them off pretty often.

McIlroy is stupid long and can outdrive almost anybody when he has a mind to. Did you see him smoke one by Fowler last week with a 3 wood? Fowler is no slouch either, and it went by him a decent bit. He doesn't hit that many fairways, but he's pretty solid for a player of his length. You must not have watched the US Open last year because he was hitting 340 yard bombs in the fairway all week. He struggles at times, especially when it's windy, but when he doesn't struggle he shoots low scores, period. His iron game is widely considered the best, and his short game is among the elite on tour. He's in the top 10 in driving distance, and he does that hitting 3 wood all the time when Dustin and Bubba get paid more to blast drivers all year long. How much longer does he have to be?

His putting is pretty damn good overall, but he does miss short ones more than he could. His course management is better than it was, and will only improve as he actually plays courses multiple times and gets even more tournament experience. Mental game is his only real question; he plays quickly and decisively and stays cool, but he has lost that cool in stressful situations before. However, his mental game in terms of not compounding errors is very solid. He learned from the Masters and you didn't see him have a bad run of holes very often since. He missed the partial wedge the other day in the playoff because he tried to take something off, got the distance right, but didn't go through the ball solidly enough and blocked it a few yards. In past years he'd either hook it or knock it over the green. Fowler happened to hit the shot of his life for his approach instead of his tee shot like Rory did and it turned out to be the right move. Getting a little snakebitten is no indication that you don't have a lot of talent. Fowler did make birdie, and Rory would have made par so it's not like it was a bad miss.

As for talent-leveling equipment, I don't think it makes a difference. Today's equipment is a non factor for the pros and distance certainly isn't as much of an advantage as you make it out to be. There are scads of long hitters on tour with few or no wins. There is no one else on tour with the raw talent Rory has, not even close.

[inthehole]

Its a different era ... collegiate golf is developing talent like never before, guys are far more fit today & at any given tournament, any one of the top 40 or 50 has a realistic chance to win if they get hot.    It's tougher to beat those kind of odds consistently ... Rory is a great player, time will tell if he'll be legend ... from what I've seen at respective points of their careers, he's no Tiger.

[CraiginKSA]

Quote:

McIlroy is stupid long and can outdrive almost anybody when he has a mind to. Did you see him smoke one by Fowler last week with a 3 wood? Fowler is no slouch either, and it went by him a decent bit. He doesn't hit that many fairways, but he's pretty solid for a player of his length. You must not have watched the US Open last year because he was hitting 340 yard bombs in the fairway all week.

You must have not watched the Masters when he was retreiving his drive off of one of the member's patio, and hitting it into the creek.  So you're agreeing with me that he's not always accurate with the driver.  But when he does get it going, he's impossible to beat.

No, I'll give you that he's not anything like Faldo in style of play.  But I can see him winning 6 majors like Faldo.  I was saying that's his potential in my opinion.

As far as equipment - if you miss hit even a little bit with that old gear, you were in trouble.  Now, those miss hits are just in the rough.

[iacas]

  LuciusWooding said:

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Rory will have a longer career than Tiger, in my opinion. Tiger tore up his knee while he was winning like that, and played a major on a broken leg that couldn't have healed completely after that.

And Rory's already had issues with his back.

[GaijinGolfer]

Rory isnt even close yet to being as dominant as Tiger was.  Rory has some talent, no doubt but he has a ways to go before you can call him the new king of golf.

[SamCreamer]

Don't take this all too seriously I'm not expert but in my opinion, the difference is the capability that Tiger has to win. I truly believe if Tiger had to hit his approach after seeing Rickie stick it that close would've left it close too, because that's just what he does in those moments. I also think Tiger would've won Wells Fargo had he been in Rory's position so I don't think they're comparable yet although Rory is amazing and I do think he'll win this weekend.

[scottyjoe145]

The point I was trying to make is that the comparison is becoming a valid discussion. The length Rory had at the Wells Fargo is another gear people. Its brand new to him and I dont expect him to have it harnessed yet. Its a game changer, hell its a career changer. Its unmatched for his size and raw talent. Bubba, DJ, & Garrigus are long... but Rory is not plagued with a 10 cent head. Lets face it, no one will ever be Tiger again... not even Tiger. Its early still, but damn, this McIlroy kid is the new "it" guy. I think my initial comments were just a reflection of how I felt watching him play... I feel it again.

[saevel25]

Yea but Tiger was playing in a transition period, he wasn't playing againts the young talent now who don't fear him. He came out, bombed it 30 yards past everyone, had the game, and terrorized the tour with it. Now, he's not an elite driver of the ball, these guys don't fear him, there not going to crack under the pressure of him being on the leaderboard. Alot of Tiger's wins were him being able to stayed composed, while others choke. If Tiger played his game today, i would seriously think he would have significant less wins than he did playing in the early 2000's...

[GaijinGolfer]

  saevel25 said:

Originally Posted by saevel25

Yea but Tiger was playing in a transition period, he wasn't playing againts the young talent now who don't fear him. He came out, bombed it 30 yards past everyone, had the game, and terrorized the tour with it.

Exactly.  Tiger had a swagger and confidence that he KNEW that he was going to win and where on Sunday he could intimidate his opponents into taking themselves out of contention.

[trickymicky69]

  BuckeyeNut said:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

Rory has potential.....no doubt!  He'll never measure up...my 2 cents.

Rory needs to start winning PGA  tour events in Bunches including multiple majors each year to even be worthy beginning to entertain such a discussion.  He needs to start winning NOW.....picking off the odd victory a year or 2 won't get it done.

Rory has no chance to measure-up with tiger unless he commits himself full time to the PGA tour.   So far, he is like Luke Donald.....great at making top10s, but not much of golf champion. At this point, making a comparison is laughable.

so if he won one or two tournaments a year and that just happened to be an open or a masters he wouldn't measure up?

[saevel25]

Yes, but who was he playing againts, Phil who couldn't win a major, Greg Norman was done, Jack was done, Nick Price was done.. The only real contenders were VJ and David Duval, and they only lasted a season. There is so much more talent on the tour now, i think that if Rory wins half as many as Tiger did, it would be equivalent of what Tiger has accomplished. Thats how weak the competition was compared to now..

[Precis1on]

The field has caught up with Tiger. Tiger was exciting to watch when he started playing because of his length and his short game accuracy and putting. The field has caught up to Tiger in length, and Tiger's short game and putting seems to have regressed.

Not to discount what Tiger has done in the early 2000s though. Even with the explosiveness of the newer guys on Tour, I doubt they would have won the way Tiger did back then. The field now is very level in my opinion. Tiger will have to really step up his game to dominate like he used to.

[Zwick]

The field didn't cought up as much as Tiger just fell back. There can't just be that much more talent in 2 years.