Feherty Packing Heat

[phillyk]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Huh? What are you talking about? Your post is borderline incoherent, and totally off the mark from anything I have said on this thread.

First you attempt to not put yourself in this situation by using your intelligence and being aware of your surroundings at all times. So actually the best thing in your ridiculous situation is to not be in that situation in the first place.

"There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself." -Dave Grossman On Killing

So being aware of your surroundings is the #1 thing someone can do to avoid situations that require using a firearm in defense of themselves.

You are quoting the exact same thing as I am talking about.  Fear is seen body language, the slumped walk, and a big sign over your head.  I was talking about awareness.  But apparently you didn't understand that bit.  I am not putting myself in that situation, I LIVE in that situation.  Idk even know why we are arguing anymore except the fact that I don't need a gun to feel protected and it seems you do.

[x129]

Would it be justified to shoot a guy that has a gun and has been stalking you? How about banging his head into the ground before he can draw his gun and murder you? If you start a fight, it is hard to claim self defense. Yes some criminals have done that after they shot a home owner that pointed a gun at them. As far as I know none of those defenses worked. In the Zimmerman case the details are not out and may never be.   I definitely don't know if stalking someone makes you an agressor in these type of cases in Flordia, who knows what was said, and who knows who initiated physical contact.

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Would having someone straddling your prone body, bashing your head on the sidewalk, be justification?

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Would having someone straddling your prone body, bashing your head on the sidewalk, be justification?

Remember, he put himself in that situation by approaching Trayvon Martin. One thing that anyone with a carry license should get through their head immediately is just because they have a gun now, they are not the police. It is not a CCW permit holder's job to patrol the neighborhood fighting crime. George Zimmerman set gun law back 20 years with his little stunt in Florida. He gave anti-gun zealots exactly what they wanted, a jackass with a gun. I hope they fry him.

Originally Posted by phillyk

You are quoting the exact same thing as I am talking about.  Fear is seen body language, the slumped walk, and a big sign over your head.  I was talking about awareness.  But apparently you didn't understand that bit.  I am not putting myself in that situation, I LIVE in that situation.  Idk even know why we are arguing anymore except the fact that I don't need a gun to feel protected and it seems you do.

Okay tough guy, you are more man than I am NOT! I am just not letting an inflated tough guy bravado cloud my sense of judgement. I know that I have a much better chance of protecting my family with a gun. If you feel differently then that's great, I hope neither of us ever has to find out who is correct.

Some more quotes from On Killing by Dave Grossman (I hate to quote him so much but he explains my thinking more eloquently than I ever can)

"If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you..."

"Their [sheep] only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones were attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth."

Now this is getting old..Back to the golf forum

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by x129

Would it be justified to shoot a guy that has a gun and has been stalking you? How about banging his head into the ground before he can draw his gun and murder you? If you start a fight, it is hard to claim self defense. Yes some criminals have done that after they shot a home owner that pointed a gun at them. As far as I know none of those defenses worked. In the Zimmerman case the details are not out and may never be.   I definitely don't know if stalking someone makes you an agressor in these type of cases in Flordia, who knows what was said, and who knows who initiated physical contact.

I'm not sure if you are saying your description is referring to the Zimmerman case, but it doesn't jibe with the evidence released thus far by the prosecutor's office.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Remember, he put himself in that situation by approaching Trayvon Martin. One thing that anyone with a carry license should get through their head immediately is just because they have a gun now, they are not the police. It is not a CCW permit holder's job to patrol the neighborhood fighting crime. George Zimmerman set gun law back 20 years with his little stunt in Florida. He gave anti-gun zealots exactly what they wanted, a jackass with a gun. I hope they fry him.

In hindsight, I'm sure we all agree that Zimmerman should have not approached Martin, no doubt. But what he initially did as a Neighborhood Watch person (in a neighborhood that had been beset by frequent burglaries) doesn't seem unreasonable.  He asked an unknown person what they were doing walking around his neighborhood.  What tone Zimmerman took, and how Martin responded, will probably never be fully known. But I wouldn't assume that Zimmerman was looking to use his gun up until the time he was on his back, having his head getting beat against the sidewalk.

[x129]

What details are different? That Zimmerman persued a guy. There were words. And then he got his ass kicked(although lately this is more up in the air). Sounds about right but I know the details of the case change quite often. The problem is that we don't know what was said and the steps between that and the ass kicking.  Maybe Zimmerman said "I have a gun" which would be a clear threatening move which enables the other party to self defense. Maybe he grabed him and told him he wasn't going anywhere. I am guessing you are allowed self defense when you are be restrained against your will. Maybe he got punched out of no where. Who knows. There are no real witnesses and Zimmerman's recall is flawed due to his proximately to the event. You can read the studies about how poor people are involved in conflicts with recalling the facts. They are not lying. But what they think happened doesn't match reality. This isn't a simple case of a guy gunning down an innocent black guy or  someone using a gun self defense against an attacker. It's a lot messier than that.  Both parties screwed up to some degree. Wether those screw ups justify getting killed or sent to prison is up to the law to decide.  Would Zimmerman acted the way he did if he didn't have a gun? Who knows. Would he have been seriously hurt if he didn't shoot? Who knows.

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I'm not sure if you are saying your description is referring to the Zimmerman case, but it doesn't jibe with the evidence released thus far by the prosecutor's office.

[JCoop]

It's very, very interesting how people who were no where near the Zimmerman/Martin episode seem to know that Zimmerman had no justification for lethal self defense. Must be more psychic golfers than I had previously surmised.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by JCoop

It's very, very interesting how people who were no where near the Zimmerman/Martin episode seem to know that Zimmerman had no justification for lethal self defense. Must be more psychic golfers than I had previously surmised.

You might want to delete this post.

Because what you're saying is that there is no way of knowing whether someone committed a crime or not.

[newtogolf]

I think he's saying there's no way for us (who weren't there during the altercation) to know who's at fault given we don't have all the facts and details.  The news based on the pictures they are showing would have you believe Martin was a 12 year old kid.  Only facts we know for sure is Martin is dead and Zimmerman pulled the trigger.

Originally Posted by Kapanda

You might want to delete this post.

Because what you're saying is that there is no way of knowing whether someone committed a crime or not.

[NM Golf]

It's very, very interesting how people who were no where near the Zimmerman/Martin episode seem to know that Zimmerman had no justification for lethal self defense. Must be more psychic golfers than I had previously surmised.

It's called a neighborhood "watch" for a reason. As soon as he approached that kid he became negligent as he was carrying a gun. You cannot insert yourself into a situation like that if you are carrying a gun. You shouldn't do it even if you're not. I am not saying that Trayvon Martin is blameless because he's not. Had he handled himself correctly he'd still be breathing. Zimmerman had called the police, he should have left it at that. As soon as you get a CCW and begin carrying a gun you take on more responsibility than an average person. You have to make a better decision than George Zimmerman did.

[xmanhockey7]

Originally Posted by iacas

I do too. He was being sarcastic.

I honestly don't think so based on things I've heard him say in other interviews and on his show.

Also (not directed at you iacas) as someone who does carry I do my best to avoid situations where there is a greater chance of having to use my gun and I am the very first person to back down from confrontation. There are plenty of stories of people in "safe" areas that either wish they'd had a gun or are darn happy they did. Take my friend for example. She was 18 years old and hanging out with her boyfriend and a couple of his friends. It got to the end of the night and she was ready to go home. One of her boyfriends friends we'll call Jake said he'd take her home as they lived very close to each other. She had known him for a few years as they went to the same high school and he had always seemed like a nice person. Well when Jake was taking my friend home he started coming onto my friend (great friend huh). She declined but he kept coming. He decided to pull the car over and locked her in. She began trying to get out but he overpowered her. Realizing things were going bad quickly and nothing having a way out she was smart enough to turn on a voice recorder she had in her purse (ended up being the evidence that put him in prison for only 2 years). Struggling to fight off Jake who was much bigger and stronger he beat her nearly to death and raped her.

So can someone tell me how she should have avoided this situation? She was getting a ride from someone she knew and because she wouldn't voluntary have sex with him he beat and raped her. Thankfully she survived (barely) but still fears he will find her and try to harm her (she has a restraining order but let's face it that'll do nothing if he intends to harm her). She ended up turning to me because she knew I was into guns and had me help her pick out a gun and get her carry permit. Despite having a gun she still does fear he will come but now at least she has a fighting chance.

[carpediem4300]

Woah, different direction all together! Re: zimmerman - i only know what i saw on the news,......the things i feel about what ive been told by the media (which isnt alot to go on) 1) i dont know how your neighbourhood watch works but in the uk the idea is they are an extra set of eyes/ears for the police, allowing as quick a response as possible,...not to enforce the law themselves 2) if zimmerman didnt approach trayvon this wouldnt of happened 3) just because he was getting a beat down why did he have to shoot him? What happened to just fighting back and having a good ol handbags at dawn? Again this is based on what the media have told me, and i wasnt there, so my comments are quite pie in the sky

[iacas]

Originally Posted by carpediem4300

3) just because he was getting a beat down why did he have to shoot him? What happened to just fighting back and having a good ol handbags at dawn?

The Zimmerman stuff aside (quite honestly, I don't watch the news), most states pretty clearly state that you're justified in the use of lethal force if you are being attacked. The severity of the beating is a factor (felony assault vs. misdemeanor assault) in the justified use of lethal force.

[carpediem4300]

it all sounds very complicated tbh! its quite coo learning about other cultures/laws though and getting other perspectives,....

[Shot 1]

I shot a 69 today on the RTJ. ......oh is this the wrong thread ?

Been playing golf 50 yrs, never been shot at on the golf course, but have been robbed and not by my playing buds.  The white jeep had been hangin around a cul-de-sac  by the 15th tee. On this day the tees were as far from the cart path as could be and the cart path was pretty close to the cul-de-sac. While we hit,  2 scum bags ran from the jeep and grabbed everything they could from the carts, (cell phones, range finders, and one wallet), returned to jeep and haven't been seen since !   They very easily could have waited for us to walk back to the carts and robbed us at gun point, if they had the mind to.

So, things can and will happen anywhere, anytime.  Prepare to maybe give yourself a chance .........or follow the herd.

That's one of the GREAT things about being an American citizen..... U still have a choice.......at this time.

Everyone got yur panties straightened out?  I now have a small golf bag gun.No one ever sees it, it's just there.  Never know when a gator or deer or turkey might attack........

Happy Memorial Day guys..........give a VET a hug !

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

It's called a neighborhood "watch" for a reason. As soon as he approached that kid he became negligent as he was carrying a gun. You cannot insert yourself into a situation like that if you are carrying a gun. You shouldn't do it even if you're not. I am not saying that Trayvon Martin is blameless because he's not. Had he handled himself correctly he'd still be breathing. Zimmerman had called the police, he should have left it at that.

As soon as you get a CCW and begin carrying a gun you take on more responsibility than an average person. You have to make a better decision than George Zimmerman did.

I don't follow your reasoning. Are you saying that Zimmerman should not have even talked to Martin, solely because he was carrying a gun? How could he have known that this would lead to a shooting? By your reasoning, anyone who has a CCW should not interact with anyone, because a violent confrontation may occur, and you may have to shoot someone.  That doesn't make sense.

Living in Orlando, we get daily doses of the case.  As more evidence has been released by the prosecution, a clearer picture starts to emerge.  However, Zimmerman's statements to police have not been fully released yet.  Time will tell how much his statements coincide with the physical evidence.

[Mr. Desmond]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

I don't follow your reasoning. Are you saying that Zimmerman should not have even talked to Martin, solely because he was carrying a gun? How could he have known that this would lead to a shooting? By your reasoning, anyone who has a CCW should not interact with anyone, because a violent confrontation may occur, and you may have to shoot someone.  That doesn't make sense.

Living in Orlando, we get daily doses of the case.  As more evidence has been released by the prosecution, a clearer picture starts to emerge.  However, Zimmerman's statements to police have not been fully released yet.  Time will tell how much his statements coincide with the physical evidence.

First, if the teen is just walking, is there reason to follow him?

Second, if the 911 Operator requests you not follow him, why follow him?

And this guy packs a gun.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

First, if the teen is just walking, is there reason to follow him?

Second, if the 911 Operator requests you not follow him, why follow him?

And this guy packs a gun.

Ask yourself this:  If you were concerned enough about your neighborhood that you volunteered for Neighborhood Watch, then saw an unknown person walking alone at night in an area where burglaries had occurred recently, wouldn't you want to know what he was up to? And once you called police, knowing they may or may not respond, wouldn't you keep an eye on that unknown person?

I recall reading a partial statement from Zimmerman where he said he was in fact returning to his vehicle when Martin came from behind and blindsided him with the punch that knocked him to the ground.  Of course, this may or may not be true, but what if it is? That's why the case for murder will be so hard to prove.