What would you have done? (Course respect question) And also, whats the call?

[mdl]

To me, this seems like silly, almost theocratic devotion to the letter of the rules.  You watched a dude right in front of you take a huge f-ing divot out of the green and it ended up right in your line.  Declare it GUR and take free relief no closer to the hole.  The grounds crew is going to get out the white paint when they get to it sometime later in the day anyways.

And I agree with Shorty.  Unless you were like 6 inches from the divot and it was perpendicular to your line to the hole, there's absolutely no way you couldn't get WAY closer to the hole by just hitting past one side or the other of the divot rather than taking a drop two club heads to the side.

On dealing with the guy, right on.  No need for passive aggressive, only call the marshall path.

[Sandy Trap]

First off, common sense should tell you not to hit a wedge on the green and take a divot.  Even someone new to the game should know that they probably shouldn't ruin the perfect green carpet around the pin.  I mean just look around and you will see that there are not any other divots in the green.

Even if the guy was a complete moron and thought ruining the green was OK, his disrespect for the marshal was the end of him.  If you make an honest mistake apologize and I doubt they will boot you.  If you act like a jerk, you deserve to get kicked out.

I have to side with the OP on confronting him.  There is no way I would be able to hold my tongue if someone did that.  I mean COME ON!  I am very lenient when it comes to new player making mistakes, but that is behavior that needs to be immediately addressed and stopped.  He needs to know that what he did was completely unacceptable.

I love being on the golf course and always try to keep it in good shape.  I pick up all trash that people drop and put it in my bag, fix my ball marks, etc.  It sucks when you go to fix your ball mark and you can't tell which one is yours.  I find that most people don't bother fixing them.

[showtime583]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

This isnt a muni shithole, its a nice country club, of which im a member, and have a right to try to protect the course anyway I can.

Question (and perhaps this was covered earlier).....if this was a private country club with "$20K" greens, who was the member hosting the offending party? It would be highly unusual for him to out there by himself, and most certainly would accompanied by at least 1 other member?

In my experience, most "nice" country clubs don't have rangers or marshals. The course is "policed" by the members.

Is it just me or does something not sound right here?

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

I would have called the clubhouse in both circumstances. One to report the guy, and then Two to ask the "committee" how to proceed (ie declare it ground under repair for an abnormal situation). In absence of the second call I would have taken relief with penalty with the understanding that I would ask at the first opportunity if I could consider that ground under repair (wouldn't equity come into play as the previous players did not have to putt through a trench created during the round?). Had this been an actual US Open, I would have waited for the rules official who would most likely asked for a repair, or granted relief. At the local course level, I can't see any greens keeper who would want you to play through this condition as to further aggravate the damage that was done.

I am curious to hear from Fourputt. He has seen quite a bit as a rules official.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Is there a precedent for playing 2 balls?  One played from the original spot, maybe aiming outside the line of the hole and hoping to still 2-putt, and another by way of taking relief as GUR, and then asking the clubhouse later if that could be treated as GUR?  Or would that constitute some level of "cheating" by figuring out the speed needed to execute the putt?

Brandon

I think that this rule may be the best way to go as long as you announce to the group your intentions of employing the rule and which ball you intend to count if permitted.

Rule 3-3

Doubt As To Procedure

a . Procedure

In stroke play, if a competitor is doubtful of his rights or the correct procedure during the play of a hole, he may, without penalty, complete the hole with two balls.

After the doubtful situation has arisen and before taking further action, the competitor must announce to his marker or fellow-competitor that he intends to play two balls and which ball he wishes to count if the Rules permit.

The competitor must report the facts of the situation to the Committee before returning his score card. If he fails to do so, he is disqualified .

Note: If the competitor takes further action before dealing with the doubtful situation, Rule 3-3 is not applicable. The score with the original ball counts or, if the original ball is not one of the balls being played, the score with the first ball put into play counts, even if the Rules do not allow the procedure adopted for that ball. However, the competitor incurs no penalty for having played a second ball, and any penalty strokes incurred solely by playing that ball do not count in his score.

b . Determination of Score for Hole

(i) If the ball that the competitor selected in advance to count has been played in accordance with the Rules , the score with that ball is the competitor’s score for the hole. Otherwise, the score with the other ball counts if the Rules allow the procedure adopted for that ball.

(ii) If the competitor fails to announce in advance his decision to complete the hole with two balls, or which ball he wishes to count, the score with the original ball counts, provided it has been played in accordance with the Rules . If the original ball is not one of the balls being played, the first ball put into play counts, provided it has been played in accordance with the Rules . Otherwise, the score with the other ball counts if the Rules allow the procedure adopted for that ball.

Note 1: If a competitor plays a second ball under Rule 3-3 , the strokes made after this Rule has been invoked with the ball ruled not to count and penalty strokes incurred solely by playing that ball are disregarded.

Note 2: A second ball played under Rule 3-3 is not a provisional ball under Rule 27-2 .

[Sandy Trap]

I honestly just do not understand why you would give yourself a penalty.  You had to move the ball 6 inches to avoid a divot in the green, just move it.  This isn't a major championship; I don't see how someone could get mad about you moving the ball in that situation.

To each his own.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by showtime583

Question (and perhaps this was covered earlier).....if this was a private country club with "$20K" greens, who was the member hosting the offending party? It would be highly unusual for him to out there by himself, and most certainly would accompanied by at least 1 other member?

In my experience, most "nice" country clubs don't have rangers or marshals. The course is "policed" by the members.

Is it just me or does something not sound right here?

Yeah, I thought the same thing. Having played at least 2 dozen high end country clubs in the NY/NJ metro area, I've never encountered one with marshalls. Perhaps the OP's course needs them to protect smaller players from guys who are twice their size and in great shape.

[Sandy Trap]

When I play Tiger Woods PGA 13 on Playstation, I am allowed to use my wedges on the green...  I don't see what the problem here is.

[Hoganwoods]

Originally Posted by zeg

I think it's hilarious that people assume new golfers would automatically know that the green is subject to different rules than the rest of the well-manicured grass that they're allowed to take divots out of.

I think it's sad that they'd suggest someone who doesn't yet know the details of etiquette should not be playing. Apparently those of us who weren't brought up on the golf course don't belong there until we magically acquire that knowledge.

Look, there's no sense assuming ill will before you know anything. Playing an honest shot off of a green is not something we should do (barring unusual situations where a chip shot is appropriate), but at the same time it's not obviously destructive behavior. It's different from someone hacking holes in the green just for kicks (which I've seen at a practice green once). Yes, you ought to try to stop it before it happens, but you can do that without being a jerk about it. This gives you a chance to educate him if he simply doesn't yet know the rule/etiquette.

To turn it around, what possible benefit do you get by assuming he's intentionally destructive and treating him like a jerk from the outset? The only difference I see is that you'll probably make a fool of yourself calling another golfer names on the course.

Yes, in stroke play anyway, if you're unsure how to proceed and obtaining a ruling is impractical, you can play two balls. I think you have to declare in advance which one you would like to use (in case both methods are legal). You then look it up or obtain a ruling after the round and use the appropriate score.

Are you serious? Come on man...the dude hit an iron off a green.  In all things we do in life there is some measure of common sense... either this guy is a total idiot or he did it on purpose.  From what the OP has told us, it's the latter.  I know what you are trying to say and I can respect that you like to think people don't have bad intentions...but well they often do.  This guy had no respect for the course, the members (OP) or the marshal and got booted.

[AmazingWhacker]

I'm pretty sure I saw Phil chip one off a green over one of those "middle of the green" bunkers a year or 2 back.

Anyway - chuckleheads at muni courses should know better.  No way would I assess myself a penalty over it.  If it were a tournament or something I would call over grounds crew but, if not, I would just move the ball out of the way of the divot and proceed.  Nobody I play golf with would say anything about it.  You're not expected to putt through big divots.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker

I'm pretty sure I saw Phil chip one off a green over one of those "middle of the green" bunkers a year or 2 back.

Anyway - chuckleheads at muni courses should know better.  No way would I assess myself a penalty over it.  If it were a tournament or something I would call over grounds crew but, if not, I would just move the ball out of the way of the divot and proceed.  Nobody I play golf with would say anything about it.  You're not expected to putt through big divots.

Different situation.  It is against the rules to hit from an incorrect green.  Phil was on his own green, and on your own green you can do whatever you need to do.  The greenskeeper may not like it, but that is the risk they take by putting a bunker on a green or putting a flagstick in a place where chipping from the green might become necessary.  I think I saw Furyk chip on a green at the Memorial this past weekend.

[Sandy Trap]

A chip from a PGA pro over a bunker or nasty break is A LITTLE different than a full swing hack from a 50 handicap.  Just a little.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Hoganwoods

Are you serious? Come on man...the dude hit an iron off a green.  In all things we do in life there is some measure of common sense... either this guy is a total idiot or he did it on purpose.  From what the OP has told us, it's the latter.  I know what you are trying to say and I can respect that you like to think people don't have bad intentions...but well they often do.  This guy had no respect for the course, the members (OP) or the marshal and got booted.

Yes, I'm serious.

Common sense, yes, but if you have one thing drilled into your head from reading the rules, it's "Play the ball as it lies." So I can have sympathy for someone who doesn't know better. I believe I've played out of marked flower beds before realizing what the markings meant. That's a bit different, but I can imagine a self-appointed course defender giving me unwarranted flak for my ignorance.

In this case, yes, it would have quickly become clear that even the benefit of the doubt wouldn't protect this guy. No argument there.

In general, though, I'd bet 99% of golfers would know better, and 99% of the others would be grateful to be informed they got to play off the fringe instead of off the green. I hate the thought of playing an iron on a tight putting green lie.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by zeg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoganwoods

Are you serious? Come on man...the dude hit an iron off a green.  In all things we do in life there is some measure of common sense... either this guy is a total idiot or he did it on purpose.  From what the OP has told us, it's the latter.  I know what you are trying to say and I can respect that you like to think people don't have bad intentions...but well they often do.  This guy had no respect for the course, the members (OP) or the marshal and got booted.

Yes, I'm serious.

Common sense, yes, but if you have one thing drilled into your head from reading the rules, it's "Play the ball as it lies." So I can have sympathy for someone who doesn't know better. I believe I've played out of marked flower beds before realizing what the markings meant. That's a bit different, but I can imagine a self-appointed course defender giving me unwarranted flak for my ignorance.

In this case, yes, it would have quickly become clear that even the benefit of the doubt wouldn't protect this guy. No argument there.

In general, though, I'd bet 99% of golfers would know better, and 99% of the others would be grateful to be informed they got to play off the fringe instead of off the green. I hate the thought of playing an iron on a tight putting green lie.

I hope the percentage is virtually 100. There's no way the guy didn't know better. His response was the clincher.

[JerryTimes]

I didn't go back to the beginning, but did you say this guy over shot his green by 100 yards????

[ApocG10]

Originally Posted by JerryTimes

I didn't go back to the beginning, but did you say this guy over shot his green by 100 yards????

If your coming up the hill, you can see the flag from 5, but not from 1. If you dont know the course, its entirely possible to think its your green, which would make it the longest par 5 i've ever played, lol. He probably hit a wood or a long iron thinking he had to get to #5. That, or he hit the longest shot of his life.

[inthehole]

This is an unfortunate situation & your ball falling directly behing his divot falls into the "if you didn't have bad luck, you wouldn't have any luck at all" category.    I do have a question though ... I have been carrying a chipper lately & would have probably used it safely in that situation without further damage to the green - is it legal to use a chipping club (or any iron for that matter) on a green, or are we required to only use a putter on a green ??

[ApocG10]

I believe you can use a chipper. See talk of phil taking a wedge shot over a bunker in the middle of a green earlier in this thread. Though I never would. Im not phil mickelson.

[3putt53]

You can use any club you wish on a green. If you want to putt with your driver or your sand wedge,go ahead. You'll see pro's putting with clubs other than their putters when they become "damaged".