65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

that wouldn't matter if someone had a track record, or other type of resume, that shows they are a master of golf.  however here, we only have someone's handicap to judge them by.  and i feel that someone that's a 20 handicap shouldn't be spouting off that we should be spending all our time putting and chipping.  i'll go w/ the advice of the single-digit handicap as they are speaking from their experience.

There may be someone out there who has a great ability to teach golf (or any other physical sport for that matter) without being able to play it themself.  It comes down to credibility, in my opinion. Why would anyone take advice from someone who has never played the game well?

I'm not talking about the gurus to the stars like Foley or Harmon, who are physically not as good as as their professional students.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by dsc123

You have his statement and his explanation for it.  You know, what he actually said.

this thread has gone on so long its hard to keep track of why someone is referring to.   again, i'll take the advice of icacas and NOT the person w/ the 20+ handicap.   and if butch harmon, at his youthful age, barring no disabilities, was a 20+ handicap, he certainly wouldn't be tiger's coach.  if you can't use your own advice to get better, then shut the h** up.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dsc123

You have his statement and his explanation for it.  You know, what he actually said.

I was going to say the same thing.

I've recently gotten into disc golf. Just today I got into a discussion about the rates of rotation versus someone moving his arm forward (right arm for a right-handed back-handed throw). We see similar things in golf - someone who spins too much and doesn't get his arms down fast enough - releasing his first and fourth accumulators too slowly if you're into TGM terms.

I felt I was giving really good advice because I could relate it to my golf instruction, despite being perhaps an 18-24 handicap in the world of disc golf.

While handicap levels are generally true, they're not always the best indicator. I believe the best indicator is the quality of the advice given.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

I was going to say the same thing.

I've recently gotten into disc golf. Just today I got into a discussion about the rates of rotation versus someone moving his arm forward (right arm for a right-handed back-handed throw). We see similar things in golf - someone who spins too much and doesn't get his arms down fast enough - releasing his first and fourth accumulators too slowly if you're into TGM terms.

I felt I was giving really good advice because I could relate it to my golf instruction, despite being perhaps an 18-24 handicap in the world of disc golf.

While handicap levels are generally true, they're not always the best indicator. I believe the best indicator is the quality of the advice given.

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

this thread has gone on so long its hard to keep track of why someone is referring to.   again, i'll take the advice of icacas and NOT the person w/ the 20+ handicap.   and if butch harmon, at his youthful age, barring no disabilities, was a 20+ handicap, he certainly wouldn't be tiger's coach.  if you can't use your own advice to get better, then shut the h** up.

Interesting little dilemma you got here.  You will certainly take Erik's golf advice (you'd be crazy not to) ... but will you also take his advice on taking advice?

Also, who's to say that the 20+ HDCP isn't getting better?  How do you know that he wasn't a 30 prior to doing whatever it is he was suggesting to you?  Equally as possible, a 1 HDCP giving you advice on what he's doing without telling you that he used to be a +3.  Furthermore, us hacks who have tried a lot of different things can have some insight into things that don't work and can give pretty good advice on that as well.

"Just because you are ahead of me on the track does not mean you are going faster right now." - Golfingdad, 2012

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

"Just because you are ahead of me on the track does not mean you are going faster right now." - Golfingdad, 2012

I like it!

[ChrisGSZ]

The original post actually focussed on two things - what to practise, and how to practise. Much of the debate (in fact nearly all of it - from just a skip-read...) has focussed on the 'what'. Given limited practice time, most people would improve by addressing the 'how' a bit more. In particular, good players who want to get to the very top need to focus on the how....

I'm referring to the science of 'deliberate practice' - to give it it's technical term. It's becoming the norm in other sports. Erik hinted at it in the original post. Does this deserve a new thread?

[boogielicious]

Chris,

There are three other threads in this section on "How to practice".  My fav is below.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54840/simple-specific-slow-short-and-success-the-five-s-s-of-great-practice

[ChrisGSZ]

Thanks for that - I'll take a look. I joined only recently and I'm still finding my way around.....

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Interesting little dilemma you got here.  You will certainly take Erik's golf advice (you'd be crazy not to) ... but will you also take his advice on taking advice?

Also, who's to say that the 20+ HDCP isn't getting better?  How do you know that he wasn't a 30 prior to doing whatever it is he was suggesting to you?  Equally as possible, a 1 HDCP giving you advice on what he's doing without telling you that he used to be a +3.  Furthermore, us hacks who have tried a lot of different things can have some insight into things that don't work and can give pretty good advice on that as well.

"Just because you are ahead of me on the track does not mean you are going faster right now." - Golfingdad, 2012

erik is talking about live instruction where he can actually gauge the advice of people.  my complaint was about the 20+ handicappers that are on this thread making no damn sense, saying we should devote 50% of our practice to putting, since 50% of our shots are putts.

one thing i've noticed about this site is people immediately react to the post right above them without reading any of the other posts.  its why many of the threads on this forum get off track .. its like a painful version of the 'operator' game.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

one thing i've noticed about this site is people immediately react to the post right above them without reading any of the other posts.  its why many of the threads on this forum get off track .. its like a painful version of the 'operator' game.

I think this forum does a vastly superior job of staying on topic, far more so than any other forum (in any topic) on which I've ever participated.

Some natural wandering is inevitable, but I think, by and large, the vast majority of threads here stick closely to their original topics.

That said, this line of discussion is definitely off topic, so it ends now and I get to use the angry smiley with the sign:

[JasonK88S]

I'm so glad you posted this. I have such a terrible time off the tee box with my driver. I often play with buddies that wont even pull their driver out of the bag and just use the 3w or hybrid every tee shot. Helps keep the ball under control but IMO this is only a temporary fix. I continue to use my driver and it is improving little by little as I practice. I need to spend a little more time with the driver instead of the other things that I do. I'm getting a new driver for Christmas so hopefully that will help me stay motivated.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

erik is talking about live instruction where he can actually gauge the advice of people.  my complaint was about the 20+ handicappers that are on this thread making no damn sense, saying we should devote 50% of our practice to putting, since 50% of our shots are putts.

one thing i've noticed about this site is people immediately react to the post right above them without reading any of the other posts.  its why many of the threads on this forum get off track .. its like a painful version of the 'operator' game.

Not sure why 20 handicappers would be able to give good advice only in person, but whatever.

What you are doing is the golfing ability equivalent of racism.  You are saying that because a 20+ handicapper suggested that we should devote 50% of our time to practicing putting that all 20+ handicappers are morons and incapable of giving advice.  I think all you should have done is complain about the one idiot who thinks that, rather than generalize based on his golfing ability.

There are people of all golfing skill levels who disagree with Erik's theory (not sure why, but they are out there), so I am sure you can find scratch golfers who think that you should devote an extra large amount of time to putting.  Is their opinion more "right" than 20-capper guy because they are better golfers?  How could it be, when it's the exact same opinion?  The equivalent to your theory is the reason why everybody is so ingrained with the old, backwards, ball flight laws lies.  We assumed because really good teachers and players were telling us, that the information MUST be correct, when, in fact, it was very, very wrong.

And regarding your last statement ... it's really hard not to.  Even if you have read the entire thread from the beginning, you aren't going to go back and read it all every time, so I totally agree that over time these threads veer for that reason.  Heck, there are probably some older threads where I have contradicted myself if I posted on there enough times.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not sure why 20 handicappers would be able to give good advice only in person, but whatever.

What you are doing is the golfing ability equivalent of racism.  You are saying that because a 20+ handicapper suggested that we should devote 50% of our time to practicing putting that all 20+ handicappers are morons and incapable of giving advice.  I think all you should have done is complain about the one idiot who thinks that, rather than generalize based on his golfing ability.

There are people of all golfing skill levels who disagree with Erik's theory (not sure why, but they are out there), so I am sure you can find scratch golfers who think that you should devote an extra large amount of time to putting.  Is their opinion more "right" than 20-capper guy because they are better golfers?  How could it be, when it's the exact same opinion?  The equivalent to your theory is the reason why everybody is so ingrained with the old, backwards, ball flight laws lies.  We assumed because really good teachers and players were telling us, that the information MUST be correct, when, in fact, it was very, very wrong.

And regarding your last statement ... it's really hard not to.  Even if you have read the entire thread from the beginning, you aren't going to go back and read it all every time, so I totally agree that over time these threads veer for that reason.  Heck, there are probably some older threads where I have contradicted myself if I posted on there enough times.

racist??  no, i'm being selective.  let's group everyone on this thread into two groups, those that agree w/ erik and those that don't.  the only other way to evaluate the quality of that advice, since i'm not actually interacting w/ the person but instead am reading what they write, would be the quality of their own game.   thus, i trust erik over the 20+ posers on here.

furthermore, to coach at a top level for nearly every sport requires proof of some ability within the sport itself.    us soccer has licensing standards like this, for example.   so, here, since i can't force someone to prove their theories, i will evaluate based on their handicap.  those with better handicaps than mine carry much more weight then those that put '??' for their handicap.   and for those, i ignore their golfing tips, since they're obviously not at a high enough level to follow their own advice.   if someone's handicap is 20+ because they're disabled, then they should mention that cause otherwise i ain't listening to someone that can't keep their ball in play!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

racist??  no, i'm being selective.  let's group everyone on this thread into two groups, those that agree w/ erik and those that don't.  the only other way to evaluate the quality of that advice, since i'm not actually interacting w/ the person but instead am reading what they write, would be the quality of their own game.   thus, i trust erik over the 20+ posers on here.

furthermore, to coach at a top level for nearly every sport requires proof of some ability within the sport itself.    us soccer has licensing standards like this, for example.   so, here, since i can't force someone to prove their theories, i will evaluate based on their handicap.  those with better handicaps than mine carry much more weight then those that put '??' for their handicap.   and for those, i ignore their golfing tips, since they're obviously not at a high enough level to follow their own advice.   if someone's handicap is 20+ because they're disabled, then they should mention that cause otherwise i ain't listening to someone that can't keep their ball in play!

I didn't mean to scare anybody with the actual word racism ... but I figured if I wrote handicapism, nobody would quite know what I meant.

OK, so what if you have Erik telling you to practice putting 10% of the time, then another pro comes on here and tells you you should practice putting 90% of the time, which one are you going to believe?  They are both pros so they must both know what they are talking about, no?

I would guess in this case, what you would do is actually evaluate the advice itself and make your decision on whether or not it makes sense from that evaluation, am I right?

I'm suggesting that maybe we should do that from the start with all advice, and don't put much stock into people's listed handicaps.  (This is different, by the way, from looking at a piece of advice you know to be cuckoo, then glancing at the handicap and seeing a 35, then thinking to yourself, "Aha, I understand now")

[iacas]

One more time, with feeling!

The meta-conversation about from whom to take advice is not really the topic here, guys. :)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

One more time, with feeling!

The meta-conversation about from whom to take advice is not really the topic here, guys. :)

"Sorry" ... he said as he slumped away from this thread sheepishly.

[JasonK88S]

Quote:

then they should mention that cause otherwise i ain't listening to someone that can't keep their ball in play!

I wouldn't listen to someone who says I "ain't".

[saevel25]

Still you can be a student of the golf swing and not played golf. Especially today with video cameras. Its like a head football coach who never played before.