65/20/15 Practice Ratios: Where to Devote Your Practice Time

[Golfingdad]

I think I would disagree with this a bit.  I think 15+ handicappers might benefit from this since putting the ball in play is a bit more critical in the early stage of one's golf game.

I think once you get your full swing at least a bit under control you may want to look more at a 45/40/15 ratio.  I spend about an hour on chipping/pitching, 15 minutes on putting, then go spend about an hour on full swing when I hit the range and I feel like I am right where I should be once I hit the course.  I also think once you are under a 15 handicap you should play WAYYYYY more than you practice.  Like practice once every 5-10 rounds (with exception of practice green chipping/putting and a few warmup balls on the range before a round).

Lower 'cappers, am I off base here?

Yes.

Putting the ball in ball is the most critical for everybody at every stage of the game.  Putting is easy and requires very minimal practice.  Chipping and pitching slightly more than that.

As an (admittedly anecdotal) example, I rarely practice pitching and putting, and always practice my full swing, yet still lose most all of my strokes on my full swing.  I hit about 1/3 of the fairways and about 7 greens per round, on average.

To lower my handicap I need to hit more greens.  Period.

[SoundandFury]

I think I would disagree with this a bit.  I think 15+ handicappers might benefit from this since putting the ball in play is a bit more critical in the early stage of one's golf game.

I think once you get your full swing at least a bit under control you may want to look more at a 45/40/15 ratio.  I spend about an hour on chipping/pitching, 15 minutes on putting, then go spend about an hour on full swing when I hit the range and I feel like I am right where I should be once I hit the course.  I also think once you are under a 15 handicap you should play WAYYYYY more than you practice.  Like practice once every 5-10 rounds (with exception of practice green chipping/putting and a few warmup balls on the range before a round).

Lower 'cappers, am I off base here?

Depends on what you're working on I think.  I'm in the process of a pretty big swing overhaul, so I'm probably spending closer to 75% of my practice time on full swing.  I also cut back from playing 3x per week and practicing 2ish times to practicing every day (combo of range and mirror, practice swings, etc.) and playing maybe 2x.  Guess it's sort of dependent on where your game's at.

I do think though that short game (unless you have a tour card) requires less time/effort to improve than a full swing.  My bunker game had gone to absolute garbage as of a few weeks ago.  Spent maybe an hour total over multiple practice sessions working it out and I'm back to being pretty good in the sand again. No way that happens if there's something significantly wrong with your swing.  Same with putting and chipping; less times pays bigger dividends than it does with a full swing.

[SoundandFury]

Yes.

Putting the ball in ball is the most critical for everybody at every stage of the game.  Putting is easy and requires very minimal practice.  Chipping and pitching slightly more than that.

As an (admittedly anecdotal) example, I rarely practice pitching and putting, and always practice my full swing, yet still lose most all of my strokes on my full swing.  I hit about 1/3 of the fairways and about 7 greens per round, on average.

To lower my handicap I need to hit more greens.  Period.

Beat me to it.  +1.

[dkolo]

Depends on what you're working on I think.  I'm in the process of a pretty big swing overhaul, so I'm probably spending closer to 75% of my practice time on full swing.  I also cut back from playing 3x per week and practicing 2ish times to practicing every day (combo of range and mirror, practice swings, etc.) and playing maybe 2x.  Guess it's sort of dependent on where your game's at.

I do think though that short game (unless you have a tour card) requires less time/effort to improve than a full swing.  My bunker game had gone to absolute garbage as of a few weeks ago.  Spent maybe an hour total over multiple practice sessions working it out and I'm back to being pretty good in the sand again. No way that happens if there's something significantly wrong with your swing.  Same with putting and chipping; less times pays bigger dividends than it does with a full swing.

One thing I'm a believer in (it comes from the Mickelson DVD), is that things like bunker practice helps you with your overall swing by helping you with your tempo and other things. It's been my new thing this year and it's really worked: every time I start having trouble with my full swing (usually shanky), an hour in the bunker is a cure-all. I suspect is has to do with calming down my swing path from being too far outward as I tend to hit straight or cutting across the ball in the sand, and it helps build in a smoother tempo with good follow-through.

[mmoan2]

I think I would disagree with this a bit.  I think 15+ handicappers might benefit from this since putting the ball in play is a bit more critical in the early stage of one's golf game.

I think once you get your full swing at least a bit under control you may want to look more at a 45/40/15 ratio.  I spend about an hour on chipping/pitching, 15 minutes on putting, then go spend about an hour on full swing when I hit the range and I feel like I am right where I should be once I hit the course.  I also think once you are under a 15 handicap you should play WAYYYYY more than you practice.  Like practice once every 5-10 rounds (with exception of practice green chipping/putting and a few warmup balls on the range before a round).

Lower 'cappers, am I off base here?

I'm not a low capper and I disagree. It's a matter of expectations and goals. If you want to improve, smart full swing practice can be as valuable as playing golf. Practicing once every 5-10 rounds is a sure way to keep yourself grounded at your current skill level, and possible ingrain bad habits. Like others have said, good, smart full swing practice can be done in your garage or backyard with a camera and/or mirror, etc.

I also used to be one who tried to fight the 65/20/15 ratio and found it's no use! It's too true! Maybe if you've never picked up a golf club in your life, a few weeks getting serviceable short game and putting skills could be time better spent than working on full swing. After that, though, it's all GIR unless your short and putting game are severely lacking.

[Shindig]

I also used to be one who tried to fight the 65/20/15 ratio and found it's no use! It's too true! Maybe if you've never picked up a golf club in your life, a few weeks getting serviceable short game and putting skills could be time better spent than working on full swing. After that, though, it's all GIR unless your short and putting game are severely lacking.

I just want to point out the situation you're describing is accounted for in the rules. The situation you describe would be someone who has a glaring weakness.

[mmoan2]

I just want to point out the situation you're describing is accounted for in the rules. The situation you describe would be someone who has a glaring weakness.

Not sure what you mean. I was trying to express that if your glaring weakness is the entire game of golf itself because you've never played before, MAYBE putting and short game might be a good idea to start with in greater %.

[iacas]

Not sure what you mean. I was trying to express that if your glaring weakness is the entire game of golf itself because you've never played before, MAYBE putting and short game might be a good idea to start with in greater %.

Yeah, honestly, IMO that kind of thing depends on the player. But this article and the 65/20/15 ratio isn't really geared toward beginning players.

[PooN]

I still feel like you will shave off more strokes in a round by gearing up your chipping/pitching.  If you can get up and down more you will shave strokes.

As a high single handicap I could miss nearly every GIR and still shoot a decent round (high-70's/low 80's) if my short game is getting me close and I am draining the 4-8 footers.  That is assuming my driver and irons are staying in play... maybe not in the fairway and on the green, but not OB or in the hazards (like the higher handicappers may have issues with).

[14ledo81]

I still feel like you will shave off more strokes in a round by gearing up your chipping/pitching.  If you can get up and down more you will shave strokes.

As a high single handicap I could miss nearly every GIR and still shoot a decent round (high-70's/low 80's) if my short game is getting me close and I am draining the 4-8 footers.  That is assuming my driver and irons are staying in play... maybe not in the fairway and on the green, but not OB or in the hazards (like the higher handicappers may have issues with).

Of course you will shave strokes by getting up and down.

You can save more strokes by making sure your are getting up and down for par instead of triple bogey.....

[fr0sty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PooN

I still feel like you will shave off more strokes in a round by gearing up your chipping/pitching.  If you can get up and down more you will shave strokes.

As a high single handicap I could miss nearly every GIR and still shoot a decent round (high-70's/low 80's) if my short game is getting me close and I am draining the 4-8 footers.  That is assuming my driver and irons are staying in play... maybe not in the fairway and on the green, but not OB or in the hazards (like the higher handicappers may have issues with).

Of course you will shave strokes by getting up and down.

You can save more strokes by making sure your are getting up and down for par instead of triple bogey.....

The only reason you can shave a stroke by getting up and down is because you added the stroke by missing the GIR in the first place.

The fastest way to add strokes to your score that you can shave off with your short game is by hitting poor drives and approach shots.

[PooN]

You can save more strokes by making sure your are getting up and down for par instead of triple bogey.....

Kind of what I'm talking about... if you are a low handicapper you are not slicing/hooking your shots OB.  Even if you are not having a great ballstriking day, you are generally getting the ball down the length of the fairway and close to the greens.  Having a good short game to get you close to the hole when you are around the greens and in the hole when you are 4-8 feet away will most certainly be saving your pars and bogeys.

Higher handicappers don't have enough control over their swing to keep the ball in play so they may shave more strokes from full swing practice and getting the ball to stop traveling so far offline.  By the time they are chipping/pitching a greenside ball they may be laying 5, 6, 7+ from all the penalties/duffs/skulls/whifs/etc. they've incurred along the way to the hole.

[PooN]

The only reason you can shave a stroke by getting up and down is because you added the stroke by missing the GIR in the first place.

The fastest way to add strokes to your score that you can shave off with your short game is by hitting poor drives and approach shots.

That's not entirely true.  I would say for any non-scratch golfer you are going to have a larger percentage of two-putting the majority of your approach shots.

A lower handicapper will have a greater percentage of one-putts from just off the green.

[Golfingdad]

Kind of what I'm talking about... if you are a low handicapper you are not slicing/hooking your shots OB.  Even if you are not having a great ballstriking day, you are generally getting the ball down the length of the fairway and close to the greens.  Having a good short game to get you close to the hole when you are around the greens and in the hole when you are 4-8 feet away will most certainly be saving your pars and bogeys.

The thing is that the short game has a pretty low ceiling as far as how good you can get relative to how much practice it takes.  Even if you practice forever and a day on your chipping and pitching, you're still leaving yourself a missable par putt.  You say 4-8, so lets split the difference and call it an average of 6'.  Did you know that some of the best players in the world, including last weeks winner on the PGA tour, average making only 50% of their putts from 6'?

Along those same lines, the 100th best player in the world average getting up and down from between 20 and 30 yards about 50% of the time. From over 30 yards, where I suspect these amateurs you are referring to will be often enough, especially if they're focusing all of their practice on their short game, the 100th best pro is getting up and down just a bit over 1/4 of the time.  (Tour average of all scrambling combined is 58%)

It's a safe assumption that no matter how much we're practicing, we're not getting better than pga tour pros, right?  So, even at best, we're talking about realistically getting to the point of being able to get up and down from off the green MAYBE 1/2 of the time - and that's being super generous.

Even if you miss EVERY SINGLE GREEN, you're only saving 7-9 strokes.  But ALAS!!  You're not saving 7-9 strokes, because short game and putting is not that hard ... even somebody like me, who almost NEVER practices short game or putting, is already going to get up and down a few times.  (In fact, according to GameGolf, right now I'm "Scrambling" at 32%)  So that means that I'm already getting up and down between 5 and 6 times per 18 missed greens.

If I was to allocate ALL of my practice time to the short game, then I could in theory save 2-3 strokes per round.  Short game and putting are not unimportant, but they are relatively easy skills that have a fairly low ceiling, and a low shot separation value from good to bad players.

It's just not worth wasting too much practice time on because you don't get the value you think you do.  I hope that makes sense.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I actually think it depends on how good you would like to get at the game.  The quickest way to drop a few strokes is probably the short game, but as shown above, it will only get you just so far.  If you want to get close to scratch golf, you had better put the time in to make your long game better.

True.   Reading these post, I think I am a stage where I need to work more on my 2nd shot to make the next leap.   I average 32 putts per round now (and once got down to 30 putts/round).   A lot has to do with getting my last shot into green closer to hole, not necessarily b/c I have Steve Stricker/Inbee Park putting skills.

My initial response on putting (no pun intended) more time on short game (including putting) was based on my journey from 35 handicapper to now.   I've seen too many like us get on green in regulation and end up with 3 or 4 putts, or get near green and needing 4 - 5 more strokes to put the ball in the cup.

Now, I am at 65-30-5.   I spend least amount of practice on putting, and it is still the best part of my game, relatively speaking.

[GolfLug]

Haven't read too many posts on this thread, and do not get too many opportunities to hit the range much (once a month maybe) but when I do:

75-80% driver: All important, mostly single handedly makes or breaks my round to the order of +/- 5 to 6 shots. D-Swing also tends to vary the most.

15%-20%  short-mid irons: This doesn't change as much but I absolutely have to watch my grip so I practice to simply confirm it with my ball flight generally.

I play golf to hit drives and approach shots because that is where the joy is. Short game for me is nothing but necessary functional evil. Psychologically, it is what is necessary after failing to execute 1, 2 or 3 decent preceding shots already.

So...

5% or less: Chipping. I practice to keep my stroke/contact clean. Not much else. Goal is to get ball ANYWHERE on the green.

0-1%: Putting. Maybe I should respect it a tad bit more but part of it is an inherent dislike for it. There's golf and then there's putting.

[Shindig]

Now, I am at 65-30-5.   I spend least amount of practice on putting, and it is still the best part of my game, relatively speaking.

I played yesterday and was really reminded early of how little I practice putting, relative to the rest of my game. I three-putted holes 2 and 3 (both for double bogey, sigh), and missed a 3' putt a few holes later. But then again, I hit 7 GIR, and I would have hit more if I had counted two of my three O.B. shots as mulligans instead of stroke + distance. I was hitting my driver well and even had an opportunity to go for a par-5 in two (I missed by a few yards, in the second cut, and had a 10' birdie putt that I missed, only to tap in for par). Now, does my morning setup and A1->A4 practice count towards my 65%? I'm not really even keeping track.

[rkim291968]

Haven't read too many posts on this thread, and do not get too many opportunities to hit the range much (once a month maybe) but when I do:

75-80% driver: All important, mostly single handedly makes or breaks my round to the order of +/- 5 to 6 shots. D-Swing also tends to vary the most.

15%-20%  short-mid irons: This doesn't change as much but I absolutely have to watch my grip so I practice to simply confirm it with my ball flight generally.

I play golf to hit drives and approach shots because that is where the joy is. Short game for me is nothing but necessary functional evil. Psychologically, it is what is necessary after failing to execute 1, 2 or 3 decent preceding shots already.

So...

5% or less: Chipping. I practice to keep my stroke/contact clean. Not much else. Goal is to get ball ANYWHERE on the green.

0-1%: Putting. Maybe I should respect it a tad bit more but part of it is an inherent dislike for it. There's golf and then there's putting.

I can't  hit long and I try to make it up with excellent short game.   I am gonna be one of those annoying old golfers who seem to always get up and down.   I will continue to practice & fine tune my short game.