Lance Armstrong - about time too!

[Shorty]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lance-armstrong-faces-fresh-doping-charges-from-usada/2012/06/13/gJQAefnPaV_story.html

It's been pretty much accepted by all but the most gullible that Armstrong wasn't as squeaky clean as he liked everyone to think, but it seems that at last he's going to have to face the music seriosuly. About time.

[Mr. Desmond]

The last case against him fell apart. Seems like this is Part Deux. Since all cyclists seems to dope, or everyone seems to admit as such, I think only the most rabid care.

[Motley01]

Interesting. I always kinda thought he didn't, but in the back of my mind I was always wondering.

Cyclists dope, baseball players dope, football players dope.

At least on the PGA Tour, being on steirods wont do anything for your game. LOL

[Kapanda]

Could not care less that he dopes. Those are the most stupid rules ever invented.

At the same time, cheating is cheating. But the rules should most definitely be changed.

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by Shorty

It's been pretty much accepted by all but the most gullible that Armstrong wasn't as squeaky clean as he liked everyone to think....

Rumor:   Lance doped (but never been proven despite many attempts)

Fact:    Passed over 500 drug tests (without a doubt the most tested athlete in sports)

Why is it that it is "gullible" to tend to believe in the 100's of passed tests and the many failed attempts to prove he doped instead of unsubstantiated rumor and innuendo that he did?       Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.     But why is it is so easy to claim that anyone who thinks he didn't is apparently a gullible moron?

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Clambake

But why is it is so easy to claim that anyone who thinks he didn't is apparently a gullible moron?

Dude, this is the Internet. Anyone who disagrees with the guy who's talking is a gullible moron.

I suppose you are looking for rational, civil discourse? That went out of fashion a LOOOONG time ago.

[boogielicious]

I think the gullible folks are the ones who believe the witch hunters.  He has been tested far more than anyone else and never, ever tested positive.  Cheaters have all got caught.  They want to validate their cheating, so they want to indemnify Lance.  You can either believe data and fact or you can fall for innuendo and media hype.  This case could not go to court because there was no credible evidence .  Now they want to take it out of the justice system because it is the only place they can continue this giant waste of money.

What is being accomplished with this?  Nothing.  Lance has raised hundreds of millions of dollars for cancer research and has been inspiration for many cancer victims.  There is no gain for anyone in continuing pursuing this.  They are wasting tax payer dollars for nothing.

[BEAN]

I have to say I was not surprised at all and I cant think of a pro athlete that was caught using PED's that would.  Its just come to that point now.

[VoidOfEnigmas]

don't think he dopes, people have been trying to prove it for years and he never failed a test, had anyone come forward that wasn't an outsider, and he always seemed like a classy guy.

[iacas]

I'm pretty cynical, but 500 passed tests? Where there's smoke there's fire, but I don't think there's even a puff of dandelion you could confuse for smoke here.

[bunkerputt]

This quote says a lot here:

"alleges that Armstrong...engaged in a massive doping conspiracy"

If it was so massive, how come we're still even talking about it?  In the real world, people get found out quick.  Smells like someone's got an axe to grind with him to me.

[Bullitt5339]

The worst part is that the Department of Justice has so many problems in it's own right, don't they have better things to do than to worry about Lance Armstrong?  Is this really something important enough that they need to be spending their time and our money on?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Shorty

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lance-armstrong-faces-fresh-doping-charges-from-usada/2012/06/13/gJQAefnPaV_story.html

It's been pretty much accepted by all but the most gullible that Armstrong wasn't as squeaky clean as he liked everyone to think, but it seems that at last he's going to have to face the music seriosuly. About time.

Agree.

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

The last case against him fell apart. Seems like this is Part Deux. Since all cyclists seems to dope, or everyone seems to admit as such, I think only the most rabid care.

You're probably right.

Yikes, I can see I need to exit this thread now.  I'm surprised in 2012 there are still this many people that naive.

[newtogolf]

I am on the fence here.  One one side, he's been tested more than any athlete I'm aware of and he appears to have passed every one.  On the other just about every member of his team doped or used PED's so I'm having a difficult time believing that he's completely clean.   I'm going to stay neutral until more information comes out.  What bothers me most is that we're spending a ton of money going after a guy that's retired from cycling for no purpose other than to strip his Tour de France victories.

[Clambake]

The real questions to be asked here isn't do we think Lance doped or not, but why is this a focus of a Justice investigation?   What greater good can this use of tax dollars and stretched resources possibly serve?    Ah, but I have an answer......

The Eurozone debt crisis is the fundamental reason.      With the Syriza party poised to gain greater power in Greek elections this weekend and potentially unravel their buyout deal, this puts greater stress on the French and German relations who orchestrated it in the first place.   With Sarkozy now out and new French Prime Minister Ayrault now in power, there is a very fragile support in France to continue salvage not only the Greek deal but also the looming issues in Spain and Italy.     If France backs off from their efforts with Germany to address the problems, leaving  Germany as the only Eurozone country with the economic resources to save Europe, there will be insufficient support and the entire European economic region will suffer severe collapse, hammering the rest of the global economies at the same time.

The French have long hated Armstrong, and his winning of "their" race 7 times has been a symbol of national disgrace as he destroyed the record of their great cycling champion Bernard Hinault.   This has been a long standing issue in French pride, and they harbor deep and ill feelings to this day.     For the US, this issue is a leverage point that can be used to help address the Euro debt crisis.

It would be very difficult for the US to step in directly and help support any European bailout efforts.   Besides being economically limited ourselves, the political ramifications of the US riding into Europe to force a direction would be untenable to the Eurozone member nations.    But if we can use leverage to help hold France together with Germany, then the two strongest nations in the region still have a chance of dealing with Greece, Spain, Italy, and the other fragile nations.     By agreeing to take down Armstrong through doping charges, the US can restore French pride once again and help provide greater power to Ayrault in his efforts to placate the French citizens who are anathema to a Greek bailout.     With the great legacy of Hinault restored, the French can once again feel superior in the region and will be again willing to help dictate to their neighbor nations how to run their finances.   The French-German alliance will be restored, and they will be able to use their joint influence in the Eurozone to force the changes required to restore economic stability.

So, for a few million dollars of Justice department resources, the US can orchestrate the actions needed to rescue the teetering Eurozone economies and keep stability in the world investment markets - a brilliant and amazing bargain!!!

(Ok, of course I don't really believe this.    But it makes as much sense as some of the other conspiracy theories surrounding Lance!)

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Clambake

The real questions to be asked here isn't do we think Lance doped or not, but why is this a focus of a Justice investigation?   What greater good can this use of tax dollars and stretched resources possibly serve?

Duh!  How can you not see it??  The exact same "greater good" that was acheived with the Barry Bonds case and is about to be acheived with the Roger Clemens case.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Agree.

You're probably right.

Yikes, I can see I need to exit this thread now.  I'm surprised in 2012 there are still this many people that naive.

IQ2 debate on whether PEDs should be accepted.

What I can't understand, honestly, is why people even care in the first freakin place!

[GaijinGolfer]

Originally Posted by Clambake

Rumor:   Lance doped (but never been proven despite many attempts)

Fact:    Passed over 500 drug tests (without a doubt the most tested athlete in sports)

Why is it that it is "gullible" to tend to believe in the 100's of passed tests and the many failed attempts to prove he doped instead of unsubstantiated rumor and innuendo that he did?       Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.     But why is it is so easy to claim that anyone who thinks he didn't is apparently a gullible moron?

I agree to a point.  The French hated the Armstrong dominated the tour and for years have been looking for any scrap of evidence to show him as a cheater.  Just as in the Braun case, you can sometimes get a false positive and all it takes is 1 positive for everyone to label someone as a cheater for life.

Armstrong doesnt do himself any favors though.  His likeability factor is almost non-existent.