Can't hit with a full swing

[Robb]

Sorry if you are offended because I don't follow conventional teachings about the golf swing, but following "conventional teachings" never got me to 300-plus yards. 

I never reached 300 yards until I was 64 and began rotating my elbows, forearms and hands. And I know through experience and practice precisely where in the swing sequence I need to rotate my hands. 

When a high-jumper or basket ball player starts to "jump" and flex or spring off their toes, they don't stop and say, "I can't do it. I've only got 14 milliseconds. It's impossible."

The hand rotation as a result of practice is anticipated. The timing may vary from golfer to golfer and is learned first in EASY SWINGS and learning to accelerate at the bottom.

Sorry, I don;t have a laboratory other than the driving range and golf course, so all I've got is, "I know it works, because I do it."

Jack Nicholas was criticized for years with his flying elbow, as was john Daly and Bubba Watson for their swings. Copying them and other long ball strikers is what lead me to longer drives. 

The conventional tripe never got me beyond 250 yards.

Robb

PS: I don;t like argument, so I will not comment further. 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Robb said:

Sorry if you are offended because I don't follow conventional teachings about the golf swing, but following "conventional teachings" never got me to 300-plus yards. 

I'm anything but offended, and I don't espouse "conventional teachings" either.

In fact, if you polled people here, they'd say what you're describing is closer to "conventional instruction." You're talking about trying to do something that's physically impossible: initiating a rolling of the hands over a foot or two before impact.

As I said: physically impossible. Your muscles quite literally cannot receive a signal to do something and fire that quickly.

1 hour ago, Robb said:

I never reached 300 yards until I was 64 and began rotating my elbows, forearms and hands. And I know through experience and practice precisely where in the swing sequence I need to rotate my hands.

Congratulations. But if you are rolling your hands over, it's way, way, way before two feet before impact.

1 hour ago, Robb said:

When a high-jumper or basket ball player starts to "jump" and flex or spring off their toes, they don't stop and say, "I can't do it. I've only got 14 milliseconds. It's impossible."

They have a hell of a lot longer than 14 milliseconds.

1 hour ago, Robb said:

The hand rotation as a result of practice is anticipated. The timing may vary from golfer to golfer and is learned first in EASY SWINGS and learning to accelerate at the bottom.

The entire downswing is accelerating. Actually, I take that back. The clubhead is accelerating the entire downswing (if you define the downswing as change of clubhead direction). The hips begin decelerating prior to impact. The torso decelerates prior to impact. The hands decelerate prior to impact. These are true of long drivers and PGA Tour players and average golfers alike.

1 hour ago, Robb said:

Sorry, I don;t have a laboratory other than the driving range and golf course, so all I've got is, "I know it works, because I do it."

I do have a laboratory, and PhDs, and degrees of my own, and a background in science, and I've read the papers, and so on. As I said, you're describing a "feel" that may or may not help others, but it's far from universal, and in fact, is contrary to some actual facts in the areas with which I'm very familiar.

"I know it works, because I do it" doesn't really cut it… You think you're doing something. I get that. That's all I teach to people: feels that if they "do" it the actual mechanics improve. But people are fooled into thinking (for better or worse) that what they're feeling is what they're actually doing. Tiger Woods wrote in his book (IIRC) that he feels he putts straight back and straight through. He does not. Arguably the best golfer of all time couldn't tell you exactly what he was actually doing on a relatively simple motion.

1 hour ago, Robb said:

Jack Nicholas was criticized for years with his flying elbow, as was john Daly and Bubba Watson for their swings. Copying them and other long ball strikers is what lead me to longer drives. 

I don't care about a flying elbow. I've got students whose right elbows are higher, some are lower, etc. You don't know anything about how I teach or who I am, so please don't make assumptions or try to put me in a convenient box so you can keep up your rant against "conventional instruction."

1 hour ago, Robb said:

PS: I don't like argument, so I will not comment further.

I'll be honest: I read that as "I don't like being challenged on what I believe."

Like I said, I'm glad the feel works for you, but it's not what you're actually doing, nor something I recommend other people try to do.

[Robb]

I don't have anything to prove (except to myself). 

My longest drives have reached 350, but that was when I was younger at 65. I've lost a few yards since then, but my hands and wrist roll are helping me gain back my yardage. 

The season is about over here in Northern Illinois, so I'll have to wait until I've turned 68 to get back into the 320s.

You may or may not want to share this video link from Paul Wilson. 

I believe it will help most golfers. 

Signing off.

Robb

 

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, Robb said:

I don't have anything to prove (except to myself). 

Again, I never said you did. It's a discussion, and one in which I've pointed out that several things are quite literally impossible, or entirely "feels," etc. You've ignored the facts I've shared, and keep posting about flying elbows and such.

20 minutes ago, Robb said:

My longest drives have reached 350, but that was when I was younger at 65. I've lost a few yards since then, but my hands and wrist roll are helping me gain back my yardage. 

Cool. Awesome. You should compete in the Senior Long Drive championships. Says here the finalists in the 60+ division averaged only 307.75 yards. http://beauproductions.com/golfswingsws/USSLD/2016ussld.html And they're not even playing golf. Your 350 or 320 while playing golf should blow them away.

20 minutes ago, Robb said:

You may or may not want to share this video link from Paul Wilson. 

I won't be sharing it, but you can and did.

[JDP]

While going down the rabbit hole this thread popped up. I managed to get through this thread because Erik wasn't overtly rude and was actually thoughtful.  

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, JDP said:

While going down the rabbit hole this thread popped up. I managed to get through this thread because Erik wasn't overtly rude and was actually thoughtful.  

But you appear to be. Why don't you just post and leave the snark out? Start off on a new foot.

[iacas]

20 hours ago, JDP said:

While going down the rabbit hole this thread popped up. I managed to get through this thread because Erik wasn't overtly rude and was actually thoughtful.  

I've disagreed with the things you've said to others in other threads, and told you why.

I make a living teaching, I train other instructors, and I've likely spent a lot more time studying golf and the golf swing than you have.

If you attach personal feelings to statements of fact, or my disagreement with your opinions, then you're going to find a lot of things rude which are not at all so.

Please contribute to the discussion. Your post here does not.

[JediFish]

Well since this post has resurfaced, I read it and found that I have a lot in common with the OP. My half swings are beautiful and contact is crisp with straight ball flight and decent relative distance. I think using that swing and "feel" while slowly working it into a 3/4 then full swing will benefit me. 

[klineka]

On 3/26/2017 at 2:25 PM, JediFish said:

Well since this post has resurfaced, I read it and found that I have a lot in common with the OP. My half swings are beautiful and contact is crisp with straight ball flight and decent relative distance. I think using that swing and "feel" while slowly working it into a 3/4 then full swing will benefit me. 

I have noticed that when I first started trying to take what I felt were half swings, when I watched them on video, they actually looked like normal full swings. Previously I was wrapping the club way too far behind my head and was very inconsistent. Over the past 2 months the feeling of the "half" swing has become my normal swing feeling and has resulted in aprox. 1 club less of distance, but significantly higher accuracy and consistency which alone has dropped my scores around 5 strokes compared to where I finished last season.

[Kalnoky]

13 minutes ago, klineka said:

I have noticed that when I first started trying to take what I felt were half swings, when I watched them on video, they actually looked like normal full swings. 

I have an identical experience. The instinct to go too far back is really strong. A mirror helps a lot to retrain yourself. It is also helpful (at least for me) to think about the follow through/finish, and make that the focus of my swing, i.e. "Short" backswing, "long" finish. 

 

 

[span3636]

Just look at John Rahm' swing. Only go back as far as you feel comfortable.

 

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/26/2017 at 2:25 PM, JediFish said:

Well since this post has resurfaced, I read it and found that I have a lot in common with the OP. My half swings are beautiful and contact is crisp with straight ball flight and decent relative distance. I think using that swing and "feel" while slowly working it into a 3/4 then full swing will benefit me. 

Thanks for getting things back on track. When I saw how old this thread was I didn't know if it would even be advisable to take a look at it. I looked at the OP and skipped straight to here. Here's what I gleaned from the OP.

First of all, he is a lefty, thus his handle of "LH"rocker! Thus the 3 O'clock reference. He also said that his friends tell him his downswing is much faster than his backswing. If that's correct, it tells me that however far back he gets his backswing, he's "jumping" from there through impact to finish.

I'm a righty and believe me, I know. I've done that plenty in my life. And when I was young, I could still hit the ball plenty far. But, when I caught myself at it and tried to lengthen my backswing, while doing nothing about the transition or "tempo" I found myself living in a world of hurt!

I have fought this tendency for many years. Caught myself at it again last Summer when I attended the TST NE Ohio outing and subsequently viewed Iacas' video posted on the outings page. My hands barely got above waist high on the backswing. I hit the ball "OK", but at 64 years old, I can't generate the kind of clubhead speed I could when I was younger.

Now I'm just trying to work on getting my hands shoulder high. I can get the club to parallel easily on a practice swing, but I think something happens in many of our brains when actually confronted with striking a shot. We get in a hurry to "hit the ball", wind up sawing off the backswing short, and jump from the top.

If that's the case, why not just take a reasonable backswing, hands shoulder high, make a smoother transition, and give ourselves a better chance to strike the ball solidly and gain some distance at the same time!

[MarvChamp]

I am an old golfer with restricted hip turn. I found that, in trying to swing longer,  I was just arm swinging with some shoulder rotation and a little hip turn. The result was...Up out of posture, too much forward weight (or almost a reverse c) and casting or flipping.

The pro gave me a drill to "shorten" my swing. First move after setup is wristcock with club parallel to ground. Pause. Then begin shoulder turn and club to about 3/4.  Then swing into the ball. I found I got really good solid compression and good distance. Also, it "felt" like a 1/2 or 3/4 swing, but it was actually longer and in balance.  Also my hips actually turned to their restriction limit though I wasn't trying. My 2cents. I am going to work the drill for awhile.  -Marv

[Buckeyebowman]

That sounds like a great drill!