My Swing (Jetfan1983)

[JetFan1983]

Can I just stress again that I love evolvr? Mike, James and all their instructors are great at what they do and have helped me a ton. I'm still in the program.

I guess I'm just still buzzing from the in-person lesson experience!

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by cipher

I don't know why I have not come across your thread yet, but nice looking swing.  Looks like your thread has been "logged" down a bit though.

It's only cuz he's been hurt and not updating for so long.  His is one of the more enjoyable journeys to follow (ironically enough, you have been filling that void in the meantime - I also enjoy following Ernest's progress, but he seems to be on hiatus now too) so it's great to hear that he's back on the horse!

Ernest has a great thread. Lots of fun ones to follow here, even if I'm not all that active on them. I do read all the ones from the regulars.

Originally Posted by cipher

I don't know why I have not come across your thread yet, but nice looking swing.  Looks like your thread has been "logged" down a bit though.

Thanks for the compliment, cipher. My post-evolvr swings are a lot better than the OP ones.

Hopefully for my next line of swing videos I can put something up showing a really nice picture change!

[cipher]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It's only cuz he's been hurt and not updating for so long.  His is one of the more enjoyable journeys to follow (ironically enough, you have been filling that void in the meantime - I also enjoy following Ernest's progress, but he seems to be on hiatus now too) so it's great to hear that he's back on the horse!

I see.  JetFan, hope you are 100% now and can enjoy some golf.  I will enjoy watching your progress.

[JetFan1983]

What I'm working on:

1) More arm bend in my right arm at A2. Fail here. God it feels like it's so bent, but it's not. I'm only like 15 degrees from where I want to be, but that seems like a mile. Gotta keep working on that.

2) This one is tough because it involves so many pieces I need to work on. The transition is so dynamic it's tough to do unless I take a full swing. Of course, I slow the hell down when I do it, so tempo is a major thing here when trying to fix this, but there are a lot of things that get bundled into me making a better transition:

a) shallow club and load trigger finger and flying wedge

b) add pressure into lead foot

c) bring arms down and keep the left shoulder steep

3) This one I'm not really working on but I have to be aware of it for the future. No.2 on this list is really my priority right now even though no.1 on this list plays a big role in making no.2 possible. But I need that left shoulder to rotate more to my left rather than up or else my body senses I'm going to hit it fat. My head then pops up as a result far too early. Anyway, again, this is just something I try to feel in slow motion practice swings, but not when I'm actually swinging because this is too much to think about.

You'd think I'm not following my priorities but I am. I had an 8 hour lesson with James, and this is what we worked on. Stephan from evolvr wants me to keep my hip slants steeper in the early downswing as I add pressure forward, and James never really went out and said that to me, even though that does correlate with me keeping my left shoulder steeper. So I work on both. In slow motion practice swings, I feel that as I transition, I am keeping the left shoulder steep and the right hip high as the arms come down and pressure goes forward.

This is a lot of stuff. Again, 1 and 2 are what I'm really focusing on.

Here's me today taking a full swing at the end of my range session. This swing was made after I hit about 60-65 balls hitting just slow motion swings trying to hit my priorities. I used seven iron the entire time.

Result was a perfect push draw with a shallow divot. Already I'm seeing results even if the shaft tipped out here and my shoulder popped up after A5... it was a really small improvement that has already made my swing better. I'm happy with the baby step forward I made today.

PS- I screwed up the camera angle, sorry. Needs to be more left, but this isn't so much an analysis video. Just a "where I'm at right now" kind of video so you guys can see me hitting a full shot in real time.

[mvmac]

Looks good bud

[JetFan1983]

Here's a downloadable swing in slowmotion for analysis purposes if anyone is interested.

Again, I'm working on only a) trying to feel more arm bend by A2 and b) shallowing the club and increasing all accumulators in the transition while bringing my arms down and keeping my shoulders steep.

When I get to A5, my body gets extremely confused as to what I should do... my shoulder wants to pop up and stay closed rather than rotating to my left and opening up. My head pops up because I think it doesn't understand what the hell my body is doing. At any rate, I can still somehow time it and hit the ball somehow....

Obviously I need to figure out what I should do from A5 to A8 still.... Pretty sure I need to feel more left tilted throughout the downswing, and then release my pelvis after A6 so everything can keep turning to my left.

Still, I nicely got the shaft at A5 to be under where it was at A3. And my shoulder stayed steep to A5 while my arms came down. Baby steps?

Originally Posted by mvmac

Looks good bud

Hey, just noticed you responded. Thanks, Mike! I think I'm baby-stepping my way towards something.

I wish you and I got to work together in person like I did with James. He literally had to hold my shoulder in place when I brought my arms down because the feeling was so alien to me. It took all morning to even change the picture, and I still hit a shank, but as you and Erik say, sometimes a shank can be a step forward.

[jamo]

Hey, just noticed you responded. Thanks, Mike! I think I'm baby-stepping my way towards something. I wish you and I got to work together in person like I did with James. He literally had to hold my shoulder in place when I brought my arms down because the feeling was so alien to me. It took all morning to even change the picture, and I still hit a shank, but as you and Erik say, sometimes a shank can be a step forward.

August 3rd, man! ;-) Swing looking good.

[JetFan1983]

Thanks, Jamo. Yea... this change has been so difficult. Haha you'll have to have fun on August 3rd without me, brother! Don't let Erik win!!

If I may pose a theoretical question to you all here for a second though:

I know when the right arm bends in the takeaway that it plays a major role in allowing the hands to travel inward. I know rotating the hips and shoulders correctly is the primary contributor to this, but right arm folding is the other one.

I also know the right arm shouldn't travel behind the golfer's shirt seam as that creates a number of problems in its own right.

But does the right elbow travel closer to the shirt seam by A4 relative to where it was at address? Is there slight movement here? Or does the right arm just fold? The answer to this would help me out with exaggerating the correct feel here as on video it pretty clearly shows I'm not doing this well.

My guess is that the right arm can travel closer to the shirt seam from A1 to A2 as it folds, but then has to stop moving, at which point it just folds and the shoulder turn more or less takes care of the inward path.

Or is the correct answer here that an increase in right armpit pressure points is what majorly contributes to making the right arm fold correctly by A2?

Sorry if I'm getting too feel based with my question here.

[LSU_justin]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Thanks, Jamo. Yea... this change has been so difficult. Haha you'll have to have fun on August 3rd without me, brother! Don't let Erik win!!

If I may pose a theoretical question to you all here for a second though:

I know when the right arm bends in the takeaway that it plays a major role in allowing the hands to travel inward. I know rotating the hips and shoulders correctly is the primary contributor to this, but right arm folding is the other one.

I also know the right arm shouldn't travel behind the golfer's shirt seam as that creates a number of problems in its own right.

But does the right elbow travel closer to the shirt seam by A4 relative to where it was at address? Is there slight movement here? Or does the right arm just fold? The answer to this would help me out with exaggerating the correct feel here as on video it pretty clearly shows I'm not doing this well.

My guess is that the right arm can travel closer to the shirt seam from A1 to A2 as it folds, but then has to stop moving, at which point it just folds and the shoulder turn more or less takes care of the inward path.

Or is the correct answer here that an increase in right armpit pressure points is what majorly contributes to making the right arm fold correctly by A2?

Sorry if I'm getting too feel based with my question here.

I hope someone can answer as I'm also having problems with getting my right arm folding faster..

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by LSU_justin

I hope someone can answer as I'm also having problems with getting my right arm folding faster..

Justin, I was thinking that maybe a good way to do this would be just experimenting with feels and then checking with our cameras to see what the picture looks like. I generally know what it should look like, so maybe even without knowing the theory, we can still fix the problem.

I know my upper arm has to be more vertical as opposed to angled. Photo on the right I'm doing it... hard to remember what feel I used here. I guess I can find it again.

Some good player examples:

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by LSU_justin

I hope someone can answer as I'm also having problems with getting my right arm folding faster..

Try putting a tee or a glove in your right arm pit and/or feel like the butt of the club stays the same height from A1-2.

[LSU_justin]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Try putting a tee or a glove in your right arm pit and/or feel like the butt of the club stays the same height from A1-2.

Thanks, Mike.

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Justin, I was thinking that maybe a good way to do this would be just experimenting with feels and then checking with our cameras to see what the picture looks like. I generally know what it should look like, so maybe even without knowing the theory, we can still fix the problem.

I know my upper arm has to be more vertical as opposed to angled. Photo on the right I'm doing it... hard to remember what feel I used here. I guess I can find it again.

Some good player examples:

Here's another player example that Stephen used in my analysis.

Video that was also recommended.

I really like Mike's suggestion of keeping the butt of the club the same height. Good luck moving forward.

[JetFan1983]

Still working on the same stuff obviously, but I'm just trying to get my swing thread back on track here.

Shaft tipping out still but that's okay... just gotta keep at it. Also, when I pump drill, my hands don't stay inward enough... I'm trying to remove the pump movement entirely, but that's surprisingly been difficult.

Anyway, I think I need to clean up my understanding of how the spine and shoulders work into P6 and beyond because this head popping up movement is pretty terrible. Hopefully that can be a priority sometime soon, but for now, I'm gonna stick to working on the same stuff (arm bend at A2, arms down/shoulders steep/shallow shaft from A4 to A5).

This is how I'm practicing right now. Feel free to throw in comments or suggestions if you think they are relevant to what I'm doing or trying to do. Thanks!

Lastly, my short game and putting has seen a huge improvement since my clinic with James. I know how to use the bounce now and holed out a few pitches from 30 yards the last time I practiced. The local pro watched as I hit two hole outs in three swings, and he nearly crapped himself! Bunker game improved 1000%. And the stuff James has me working on on the putting greens has been really, really useful. I was sworn to secrecy though on that, so he asked me not to post about the putting tips he gave me. I guess there are just some things we have to pay for.

Full swing wise, I guess I really need to feel it shallowing out as the accumulators increase and the arms come down. Hopefully I can get a little bit more improvement in the next few sessions.

Short game improvement has come quickly. Long game improvement is coming at a snail's pace.

[JetFan1983]

Actually, maybe I should add this one too. Sorry for the double post, but I think this is a good indicator of what I'm trying accomplish.

I was really trying to bend the arm by A2, shallow out/bring arms down, and then rotate hard to the left and fire my right arm... a lot of stuff.

But I dunno, this seems like a productive way to go about it. As always, your thoughts are welcome.

[RPMPIRE]

Give this man a Stupid Monkey badge already!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

I know when the right arm bends in the takeaway that it plays a major role in allowing the hands to travel inward. I know rotating the hips and shoulders correctly is the primary contributor to this, but right arm folding is the other one.

I'd disagree with that.

Given the same elbow position and the same amount of torso and hip rotation, a right elbow folded at 90° will have far less depth than one not folded at all, for all parts of the backswing up to about A4 (where the plane in which the right elbow folding is roughly the same as the camera's plane - i.e. the right hand will go straight up and down, and thus depth won't change much at all).

If you want to get more nuanced with this then obviously yes the rates at which you fold the right elbow will affect the elbow trajectory and thus its location in time and space, which then similarly affect "hand depth," but no, the right arm folding is not a contributor to "allowing the hands to travel inward." The right elbow folding does more of the opposite, in fact.

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by iacas

I'd disagree with that.

Given the same elbow position and the same amount of torso and hip rotation, a right elbow folded at 90° will have far less depth than one not folded at all, for all parts of the backswing up to about A4 (where the plane in which the right elbow folding is roughly the same as the camera's plane - i.e. the right hand will go straight up and down, and thus depth won't change much at all).

If you want to get more nuanced with this then obviously yes the rates at which you fold the right elbow will affect the elbow trajectory and thus its location in time and space, which then similarly affect "hand depth," but no, the right arm folding is not a contributor to "allowing the hands to travel inward." The right elbow folding does more of the opposite, in fact.

Yeah agree with this.  We can see golfers roll #3 early and have the hands "push" away from the body but that golfer would probably be losing pp#4.  If I wanted to have my hands go the most in, I'd keep #4 and #5, not load PA#1 and turn like crazy.

[JetFan1983]

I see what you guys are saying. Thanks for the correction. Perhaps though they do go more inward in the takeaway. Like in this picture from before in my thread:

But I assume that the point of all this isn't inward hands, but rather (and Erik stated this in his first post in this thread) the importance of loading the trail arm correctly so one doesn't end up doing what I was doing last year at the top of my backswing.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Yes, by bending your elbow, you've changed your elbow location and thus the pressure points under your upper arm. If you had kept the pressure on the left the same as on the right (i.e. had the same upper arm angle), your hands would be more "in" on the left (too far in, but still, "more in"). Instead your entire arm, from the upper arm to your hands, is just more "out."