Out-of-Bounds Rule Change Discussion

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

If teeing off, I thought you hit a provisional at a 2 shot penalty. The dropping rules regarding hazards and OBs always somewhat eluded me. I thought point of entry is where you perform the drop unless otherwise specified by the course rules.

If you hit a shot OUT OF BOUNDS (marked by white stakes), you are NOT allowed to take a drop at the 'point of entry' (or more correctly 'point of exit'). Your only course of action is to take a 1-stroke penalty, and then re-hit the shot from the point where you took your previous shot from. For example, if your tee shot slices right and goes out of bounds 250 yards down the hole. You MUST take a 1-stroke penalty, and then hit (stroke #3) from the tee-box again. That is the only option under the rules. Any other procedure is incorrect.

[tstrike34]

Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

If you hit a shot OUT OF BOUNDS (marked by white stakes), you are NOT allowed to take a drop at the 'point of entry' (or more correctly 'point of exit'). Your only course of action is to take a 1-stroke penalty, and then re-hit the shot from the point where you took your previous shot from.

For example, if your tee shot slices right and goes out of bounds 250 yards down the hole. You MUST take a 1-stroke penalty, and then hit (stroke #3) from the tee-box again. That is the only option under the rules. Any other procedure is incorrect.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by tstrike34

If teeing off, I thought you hit a provisional at a 2 shot penalty.

The dropping rules regarding hazards and OBs always somewhat eluded me. I thought point of entry is where you perform the drop unless otherwise specified by the course rules.

Have a look at these two rules

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-26/

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-27/

They explain it all.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think the USGA feels interior OB is a contrivance and not something you'd expect. For example we had one hole that was a 90° hole, and you could drive the green with a 3-wood or even a 5-wood, but you had to hit over another tee and another green to get to your green. The interior angle of the dogleg was marked as OB for awhile, then the club planted some trees left of the tee to stop players from wanting to try to cut across.

Plus, what area is actual out of bounds in this case? Do the ends of the triangle connect to form a triangle of OB area? Because if so then the one green was entirely out of bounds. So the USGA is likely against interior OB because it really doesn't even make sense.

And it's not even how the words are. OUT OF BOUNDS. Not "a stiffer penalty." Course architects have plenty of things at their disposal to punish players more severely within the boundary of the golf course, but when players leave the bounds of the course (or lose their ball), well, that's automatically worse. They've left the entire playing area.

It's a long thread and you guys may have already covered this but ...  I have played a few courses with internal OB and I agree that it is lame and a crutch, and with Erik that they simply could just put up trees to block people from trying to cut these corners or play down the wrong fairway.

I also agree that it makes no sense to call it OB, because it's not.  But since it is white stakes ... what happens when you are playing the other hole (the one that the OB stakes were put up to protect) and you accidentally hit it on the other side of the stakes?  It seems to me that since it's not really OB and it's only there to keep you from cutting the corner on the one hole, that they wouldn't apply for any other holes.  Is that correct?

[ejimsmith]

this may not be on topic with the current discussion, but last saturday i played a round where someone from the group in front drove back to tee off again because his ball was lost OB.   while the pace was very reasonable, we did have to wait on most shots, but still, the single that was grouped with me lost his sh*t when the guy came back.  i did my best to walk back away to act like i was out of the conversation, but i did find it both (a) annoying that the guy didn't hit a provisional and avoid the conflict of coming back and (b) annoying that the guy that i was playing with had to make an issue out of it when it did nothing to change the current pace of play.

again, may not be on topic here, but its a reminder to all, play a provisional as much as possible, else the 70 year old, cranky guy behind you will give you tons of grief over it.  i give the re-hitter credit though, he put his next tee shot on the fairway!

[David in FL]

this may not be on topic with the current discussion, but last saturday i played a round where someone from the group in front drove back to tee off again because his ball was lost OB.   while the pace was very reasonable, we did have to wait on most shots, but still, the single that was grouped with me lost his sh*t when the guy came back.  i did my best to walk back away to act like i was out of the conversation, but i did find it both (a) annoying that the guy didn't hit a provisional and avoid the conflict of coming back and (b) annoying that the guy that i was playing with had to make an issue out of it when it did nothing to change the current pace of play.  again, may not be on topic here, but its a reminder to all, play a provisional as much as possible, else the 70 year old, cranky guy behind you will give you tons of grief over it.  i give the re-hitter credit though, he put his next tee shot on the fairway!

I agree with always hitting a provisional if you have any doubt. Having said that though, remember that the same penalty applies to a lost ball. There are times when a ball is lost in the rough or otherwise through the green when you would never have doubted your ability to find and play it. That will result in a trek back to the tee.....or wherever the shot was originally played from. When that happens I'm usually a little grumpy (understatement) to begin with. I'm not sure that I'd react well to someone giving me a hard time about it..... :~(

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It's a long thread and you guys may have already covered this but ...  I have played a few courses with internal OB and I agree that it is lame and a crutch, and with Erik that they simply could just put up trees to block people from trying to cut these corners or play down the wrong fairway.

I also agree that it makes no sense to call it OB, because it's not.  But since it is white stakes ... what happens when you are playing the other hole (the one that the OB stakes were put up to protect) and you accidentally hit it on the other side of the stakes?  It seems to me that since it's not really OB and it's only there to keep you from cutting the corner on the one hole, that they wouldn't apply for any other holes.  Is that correct?

we have two adjacent holes where hitting it into the other fairway gives you a nice look into the green. Over the years they have planted trees but it doesn't keep big hitters from trying the tactic. They finally stopped trying to stop them. What we did was narrow the fairway in the areas that would be the landing areas from the other holes so there is a risk-reward element to trying it. We have actually removed the majority of the trees as they were not good for the overall health of the turf on our golf course.

We had a PGA event at our golf club through the 60's and 70's and our Green Committee was going crazy over the pros using this tactic to their advantage, so they made a local rule, only when the tournament was in town, and put white stakes down the middle between the two holes. You were OB on either hole if you hit it toward the other hole and past the stakes. The PGA resisted at first, but we did it for about the last ten years the tournament was here.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by phan52

we have two adjacent holes where hitting it into the other fairway gives you a nice look into the green. Over the years they have planted trees but it doesn't keep big hitters from trying the tactic. They finally stopped trying to stop them. What we did was narrow the fairway in the areas that would be the landing areas from the other holes so there is a risk-reward element to trying it. We have actually removed the majority of the trees as they were not good for the overall health of the turf on our golf course.

We had a PGA event at our golf club through the 60's and 70's and our Green Committee was going crazy over the pros using this tactic to their advantage, so they made a local rule, only when the tournament was in town, and put white stakes down the middle between the two holes. You were OB on either hole if you hit it toward the other hole and past the stakes. The PGA resisted at first, but we did it for about the last ten years the tournament was here.

Well then, your situation is unique I believe.  Every time I've seen it used it was specifically for one hole.  A 90 degree dogleg around another green and fairway.  There is no advantage from the other hole, so my question is how could they justify that also being OB coming from the back side with OB stakes that aren't even actually OB stakes.

And I don't know your course but I doubt they were trying too hard with the trees then.  Put a row of italian cypress trees along the side of the tee box and nobody who's not crazy is going to try and hit through them.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Well then, your situation is unique I believe.  Every time I've seen it used it was specifically for one hole.  A 90 degree dogleg around another green and fairway.  There is no advantage from the other hole, so my question is how could they justify that also being OB coming from the back side with OB stakes that aren't even actually OB stakes.

And I don't know your course but I doubt they were trying too hard with the trees then.  Put a row of italian cypress trees along the side of the tee box and nobody who's not crazy is going to try and hit through them.

Been there, done that. Put some of those dense trees next to a tee and see how fast the turf conditions deteriorate. We want less trees,not more. Besides, it is a VERY elevated tee and you really can't block access to the adjacent fairway.

The reason for them both being OB is because, accordiing to rule, white posts are OB. It doesn't matter what side you are coming from. The PGA relented when whe made it OB on both holes.

.

[KevCarter]

24/5 Boundary Stakes Having No Significance in Play of Hole Being Played Q. White stakes installed between the 7th and 8th holes define out of bounds during play of the 7th hole, but they have no significance during play of the 8th hole. Are such stakes obstructions during play of the 8th hole? A. No, the Definition of "Out of Bounds" states that such stakes are not obstructions. However, in this case it is recommended that, by Local Rule, the stakes be deemed immovable obstructions during play of the 8th hole.