Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016)

[Stretch]

Sports rules are not law.

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a rule and a law?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a rule and a law?

You don't go to jail for breaking a sports rule.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by iacas

Sports rules are not law.

Originally Posted by Stretch

Just out of interest, what's the difference between a rule and a law?

Originally Posted by zipazoid

You don't go to jail for breaking a sports rule.

On the other hand, if while playing sports you break a law, you are also probably going to be penalized.  Wait, maybe not ...

Assault and battery in football and hockey is encouraged (and in basketball and baseball it's allowed sometimes).

Speeding is encouraged.

Stealing is certainly OK in all sports.

Nevermind.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

On the other hand, if while playing sports you break a law, you are also probably going to be penalized.  Wait, maybe not ...

Assault and battery in football and hockey is encouraged (and in basketball and baseball it's allowed sometimes).

Speeding is encouraged.

Stealing is certainly OK in all sports.

Nevermind.

Actually I seem to remember assault charges being levied against a hockey player a few years back for hitting another player in the head with his stick.  It's only a matter of time before we start seeing the same from helmet-to-helmet hits in football.  All it's gonna take is some guy to get paralyzed or killed because of a flagrant hit.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by dave67az

Actually I seem to remember assault charges being levied against a hockey player a few years back for hitting another player in the head with his stick.  It's only a matter of time before we start seeing the same from helmet-to-helmet hits in football.  All it's gonna take is some guy to get paralyzed or killed because of a flagrant hit.

Todd Bertuzzi, if I recall correctly ... but that was in Canada, I'm pretty sure.  It was a cross check to the back of the head.  And, not sure that they held up.  I don't necessarily have a big problem with them doing that - why should you have a free pass from the law because you are playing a sport - but I do have a big problem with how the enforce that type of thing.  He only took flack for doing what he did because he put the other guy in the hospital.  The hit was not more egregious than hits we see in hockey every single game, but because guys don't usually end up in a coma, the violators are not punished.

And I agree with you on the rest of your point.

Whoops ... I just went waaaaaaaaaaaaay off the reservation on this ANCHORED PUTTERS thread.  Sorry about that!

[zipazoid]

It's like this -

If (as of 2016) you anchor your putter it's a two-stroke penalty.

If you wrap your putter around someone's neck, you're going to jail.

Hope that helps.

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

So because they waited too long they should not do what they feel is the "right thing"?

Yeah Why wasn't it wrong 15-20 years ago? Why are their sensibilities so stricken in 2012? Is it because players are now winning Majors with it? That's not a good enough reason. Either it is wrong or it's not.

Quote:

Apparently you think so. I disagree. Better late than never.

Fairly hypocritical to do it after all these years and they clearly have left themselves open to criticism.

Again, I always thought the anchored putter was wrong. But at this point, I would prefer they do something about the equipment and the ball if they are going to get rightious so late in the game.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

It's like this -

If (as of 2016) you anchor your putter it's a two-stroke penalty.

If you wrap your putter around someone's neck, you're going to jail.

Hope that helps.

Do you know if, after 2016, you would get MORE jail time if you used an anchored stroke while wrapping it around someone's neck?

Oh, and thanks for bringing it back around to putters for me!

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by phan52

Yeah Why wasn't it wrong 15-20 years ago? Why are their sensibilities so stricken in 2012? Is it because players are now winning Majors with it? That's not a good enough reason. Either it is wrong or it's not.

Fairly hypocritical to do it after all these years and they clearly have left themselves open to criticism.

Again, I always thought the anchored putter was wrong. But at this point, I would prefer they do something about the equipment and the ball if they are going to get rightious so late in the game.

It wasn't that it wasn't "wrong" 15-20 years ago.  It was simply "irrelevant".  It didn't threaten the tradition of the game just because a few yahoos decide to experiment with a non-traditional putting method.  It didn't become relevant to the traditions of the game until popularity exploded over the past 2-3 years.  Look at the numbers for who was using them on the tour, and the numbers of young players who were playing with nothing BUT anchored putters, never learning the traditional stroke, and those numbers speak for themselves.

It's just like the size of drivers...same thing.  When they started getting a little bigger, it wasn't a huge issue (pun intended, I guess).  But after several of those "gradual" changes, someone suddenly woke up and said "holy crap, look how big they're getting!".  When they finally drew the line it was at 460cc.  How they came up with that, I don't know, but if you ask me it's WAY too big.  I would have preferred they stepped back to 300-350, personally.  But they didn't ask me.  Nevertheless, my point was that the first few steps (from, say, 200-250, for example) probably seemed like a minor issue at the time.  Had they realized to what extremes the manufacturers were going to take it, they might have stepped in sooner.  But you can't always tell what effect certain changes will have on the game until you let them run their course.

They didn't know anchored putting would threaten to make traditional putters extinct until they let it go and see what happened.  But if its popularity increased over the next 5 years at the same rate that it's been increasing over the past 5 years, you'd be hard-pressed to find traditional putters in the future.

THAT is the issue, as far as I can see it.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Texian

I didn't say Tiger finished second in any major to someone who won with a long putter. But asking me to believe that Phil's supposed dislike for the USGA  is the reason he says the proposed change is "unfair" is a far greater stretch than me suggesting that Tiger's opposition is because he's concerned golfers using long putters will deny him Jack's record.

OK,. so you don't think that when you write:

It would have had to be outstandingly convincing for me to not believe the real reason is because he wants to break Jack's record and doesn't want to keep getting beat in majors by guys using long putters.

and

If he was so interested in "the good of the game," why didn't he speak out before his competitors began denying him major victories with long putters?

that "doesn't want to keep getting beat . . .", and "before his competitors began denying him major victories with long putters" you are implying you think someone with a long putter denied him a major?  OK, then.  I am starting to understand your method of communication.  You aren't making it up, but then you are making it up.  You imply he was denied, but then you aren't saying he was denied.  Now that I understand that we are dealing with multiple personalities ......

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Do you know if, after 2016, you would get MORE jail time if you used an anchored stroke while wrapping it around someone's neck?

Oh, and thanks for bringing it back around to putters for me!

Only if it's intentional.  lol

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Do you only read your (and my threads)?

Person after person here has stated it should be banned because putting from an anchored point provides an advantage over the person with free swinging arms.

No, they said that the anchoring is what makes it qualitatively different from a stroke.  I defy you to find one message here from ANYONE what says it is an advantage for every single player.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by dave67az

It wasn't that it wasn't "wrong" 15-20 years ago.  It was simply "irrelevant".  It didn't threaten the tradition of the game just because a few yahoos decide to experiment with a non-traditional putting method.  It didn't become relevant to the traditions of the game until popularity exploded over the past 2-3 years.  Look at the numbers for who was using them on the tour, and the numbers of young players who were playing with nothing BUT anchored putters, never learning the traditional stroke, and those numbers speak for themselves.

It's just like the size of drivers...same thing.  When they started getting a little bigger, it wasn't a huge issue (pun intended, I guess).  But after several of those "gradual" changes, someone suddenly woke up and said "holy crap, look how big they're getting!".  When they finally drew the line it was at 460cc.  How they came up with that, I don't know, but if you ask me it's WAY too big.  I would have preferred they stepped back to 300-350, personally.  But they didn't ask me.  Nevertheless, my point was that the first few steps (from, say, 200-250, for example) probably seemed like a minor issue at the time.  Had they realized to what extremes the manufacturers were going to take it, they might have stepped in sooner.  But you can't always tell what effect certain changes will have on the game until you let them run their course.

They didn't know anchored putting would threaten to make traditional putters extinct until they let it go and see what happened.  But if its popularity increased over the next 5 years at the same rate that it's been increasing over the past 5 years, you'd be hard-pressed to find traditional putters in the future.

THAT is the issue, as far as I can see it.

I highly doubt that. Everybody I know has at least tried it and the vast majority don't like it at all.

And as far as manufacturers taking equipment to extremes, they have to get every single innovation past the powers-that-be at the USGA. They have had plenty of opportunities to put a stop to it, expecially the ball. When they are gaining 10 yards at a clip, they are well aware of the effect it will have on the game.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by phan52

Yeah Why wasn't it wrong 15-20 years ago? Why are their sensibilities so stricken in 2012? Is it because players are now winning Majors with it? That's not a good enough reason. Either it is wrong or it's not.

Fairly hypocritical to do it after all these years and they clearly have left themselves open to criticism.

Again, I always thought the anchored putter was wrong. But at this point, I would prefer they do something about the equipment and the ball if they are going to get rightious so late in the game.

Yes, because guys are winning majors with it.  Because when it was just the over 55 crowd doing it on the senior tour it did not threaten to change the game.  Kids taking up the game do not look to the senior tour for their examples.  But they do look to the guys winning on tour.  And some have reported HS kids starting out with these things.  Croquet putting was legal for a long time and people did it.  But then Snead, a high profile golfer, did it and it became a threat to the game because they thought that people would copy his example, and so it was outlawed.  IMO the ruling bodies gave anchoring a little time, once it became more common on the big tour, to see if it was going to be a passing fad.  But it went the other way and they took action.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phan52

Yeah Why wasn't it wrong 15-20 years ago?

It was. I have been saying this since I started the site. It was just not as relevant back then.

Originally Posted by phan52

Fairly hypocritical to do it after all these years and they clearly have left themselves open to criticism.

The USGA/R&A; already addressed your concerns about "why now?"

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Yeah Why wasn't it wrong 15-20 years ago?

It was. I have been saying this since I started the site. It was just not as relevant back then.

Yep. You've been saying it for years. Great job knowing that this should/would be banned.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by iacas

It was. I have been saying this since I started the site. It was just not as relevant back then.

It wasn't relevant when Johnny Miller won at Pebble Beach 25 years ago or Orville Moody won the Senior Open in 1989? Or Azinger won on tour over a decade ago?

They debated this before and deemed it "a very individualized art form. To inhibit a golfer's individual style would take some of the fun out of the game." (David Fay)

...offended sensibilties, all of a sudden..bah..

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by phan52

It wasn't relevant when Johnny Miller won at Pebble Beach 25 years ago or Orville Moody won the Senior Open in 1989? Or Azinger won on tour over a decade ago?

They debated this before and deemed it "a very individualized art form. To inhibit a golfer's individual style would take some of the fun out of the game." (David Fay)

...offended sensibilties, all of a sudden..bah..

No, it wasn't relevant.

Again, when just a few people are doing it, it is no threat to losing the traditions of the game.

When popularity increases to the point that it threatens to overtake traditional methods, something needs to be done.

As for the Fay quote, it crosses a line in my opinion when equipment has to be made specifically so these "artists" can practice their "style".

Having said that, if we argued that as long as we use traditional equipment we should be able to use it however we choose, then we should get rid of ALL the rules regarding what constitutes a stroke.  I realize some people would like that, but I'm pretty sure the majority value the history and tradition of the game a little more than that (as evidenced by discussions like this on golf forums all over the place).