Allen Grant seeks rules relief at Badlands Golf Course

[Lesterday]

I was skimming through youtube videos because I'm playing Badlands on Sunday. A lot of golfers in town say it's a hard track so I wanted to take a sneak peak :) . anyhow, Figure I post this gem. So was the golfer correct in taking relief ?

[Rulesman]

What a mess.

But I would agree with him that the line of rocks is a wall (Immovable Obstruction. However his nearest point of relief was about a foot further up the bank such that he would be standing on the rubble behind the wall.

Further, depending any local rule saying otherwise, both the gravel and the tarmac were one and the same cart path. So even if his npr was on the path he shouldn't have got further relief from the 'second' path.

In addition, even if he was right so far, he seems to have place the ball one drop too early.

[David in FL]

What a mess. But I would agree with him that the line of rocks is a wall (Immovable Obstruction. However his nearest point of relief was about a foot further up the bank such that he would be standing on the rubble behind the wall. Further, depending any local rule saying otherwise, both the gravel and the tarmac were one and the same cart path. So even if his npr was on the path he shouldn't have got further relief from the 'second' path. In addition, even if he was right so far, he seems to have place the ball one drop too early.

Yep.....looks like he should have taken relief up in the rocks which would have REALLY sucked..... ......and then he T.C. Chen'd the chip to boot! :~(

[WUTiger]

There's some courses you only play once.

[Golfingdad]

I watched this expecting some sort of prank ... Allan Grant is the name of the scientist in Jurassic Park and the first scene of the movie takes places at the Badlands (Montana). :)

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I watched this expecting some sort of prank ... Allan Grant is the name of the scientist in Jurassic Park and the first scene of the movie takes places at the Badlands (Montana). :)

Wow.

[Lesterday]

wow x2

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by dsc123

Wow.

That's all I get?  Just a wow?  No clarification?  Boo!  (I'm assuming the wow was short for "wow, what a dork!" or something of that nature ... which is perfectly acceptable and accurate)

[boogielicious]

Wow because our minds work alike.  As soon as I read your post, the lights flashed on my nerdy, trivia filled mind.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

That's all I get?  Just a wow?  No clarification?  Boo!  (I'm assuming the wow was short for "wow, what a dork!" or something of that nature ... which is perfectly acceptable and accurate)

haha, yes, I meant "Wow, what a dork!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Wow because our minds work alike.  As soon as I read your post, the lights flashed on my nerdy, trivia filled mind.

I'm calling shenanigans.  No way two people connected that!

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

That's all I get?  Just a wow?  No clarification?  Boo!  (I'm assuming the wow was short for "wow, what a dork!" or something of that nature ... which is perfectly acceptable and accurate)

Did I hear in the beginning he was 2 under.  He just hit a shot that probably is going to screw up his score.  He needs the rules to help him out.  Type "A" personality that, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, thinks he knows the rules and doesn't.  The other option would be he knows the rules and is cheating.

Anyway, he doesn't get it right and plays from a wrong place with a serious breach.  Oops.

[Golfingdad]

Did I hear in the beginning he was 2 under.  He just hit a shot that probably is going to screw up his score.  He needs the rules to help him out.  Type "A" personality that, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here, thinks he knows the rules and doesn't.  The other option would be he knows the rules and is cheating. Anyway, he doesn't get it right and plays from a wrong place with a serious breach.  Oops.

Yeah, the narrator said " he's playing a terrific round" and somebody else yelled 2 under. Hope that wasn't going to be a personal best prior to that debacle!

[3 Putt Again]

He may be 2 under at the beginning of this hole but not when he is done with it.  He makes a bunch of mistakes but arrogantly acts like he knows what he is talking about.

IMO it is really questionable whether the rocks that have been stood up are obstructions.  Certainly they have been placed there but that alone doesn't make them obstructions.  He claims them to be an obstruction and says he is standing on them but he not even close to addressing his ball when he is standing on them.  It is hard to tell but appears that when he properly addresses the ball, the rocks will not interfere with stance nor swing.

The rocks are clearly movable so they are either movable obstructions or loose impediments.  He is not in a hazard and so he may move those rocks whichever status they have.  He does not get to move his ball.  The only reason to concern yourself with whether they are movable obstructions or loose impediments would be if his ball moves when he moves the rocks but that appears to be very unlikely.   Once he incorrectly decides he is entitled to relief from rocks as if they were immovable obstructions, he violates one of the most basic rules of taking relief whether under penalty or free relief. He drops the ball nearer the hole!  ( Is he that ignorant of the rules or is trying to cheat?).  It looks to me to be really questionable whether his drop/place procedure is correct but that as well as his double strike of the ball are not relevant because he has committed a serious breach of rule 20.  He has to correct that or be DQ'd (assuming stroke play).

[bubble]

I agree with rulesman.

1) the lineup of rocks is clearly artificial, therefore an obstruction. free drop (unless local rules say it's part of the course).

2) the dirt path is not an obstruction but the car path with artificial cover is (unless local rules say otherwise).

3) the NPR is pretty clearly behind on the bank. not only that but the relief taken seems closer to the hole than where the ball was at rest !

the relief taken is such an advantage that 2 strokes penalty for playing the wrong relief doesnt seem fair = DSQ.

he did drop twice then placed the ball, thats fine, but he changed places between the two drops and seams to outrun the NPR + 1 club for relief on drop n°2. then he doesnt even place the ball were drop 2 landed but 1 foot off at least.

seing this I beleive anyone could be at 2 under par by his rules;

[Beachcomber]

To be clear... Where is the nearest point of relief?  Further up the embankment - in the rocks?  Can someone please clarify this?  I'm still confused on where NPR is.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by bubble

he did drop twice then placed the ball, thats fine,

The first drop was taking relief from the wall and the ball finished next to ther hard surfaced part of the path. He then said he got relief from that edge. So he dropped a second time but this was for a different relief. Not the wall but the hard surfaced path. He then placed the ball.

However, I am not convinced that gravel part of the path is not simply another part of the same path. It is certainly an artificial surface.

If I am right, he should not have dropped second time wher he did. He must take full relierf from the whole path

[3 Putt Again]

There is no NPR because the rocks are obviously moveable.  If you consider them to be obstructions, they are moveable obstructions.  The way you take relief from moveable obstructions is to move the obstructions no by moving the ball.

[Rulesman]

The stones were put there to make a wall (an artificial construction). Drystone walls are Immovable Obstructions.

The stones that were not part of the wall were Loose Impediments. Individual stones are not Obstructions unless they have broken away from a wall.

A properly written Local Rule would have declared the stone wall and the whole of the path as one Immovable Obstruction