Getting my weight forward.......WHY

[boogielicious]

It seems similar to what Rocco Mediate does.  But I think a swing with this method would require more precise timing for consistent contact.  Your weight is back at A4 and you have to shift it considerable forward during the downswing.  Taken to the extreme, Happy Gilmore would have the most weight shift. I saw Padraig Harrington do it with a driver on a Golf Channel show.  In both cases though, the weight is forward at impact.

I want to take timing out of it, which is why I have worked with SnT and now 5 Keys.  I don't have to worry as much about timing the weight shift because by keeping it centered during the backswing, I only need slide my hips forward to get my weight forward and my head does not need to move.  It simplifies the swing.

[jclark]

Well to quote an earlier poster, "Doing something badly doesn't make it a bad idea, it just means you're doing it badly." Again I think it is more a matter of different styles work for different people.  Obviously many many people have succeeded using the precepts of De la Torre, Ernest Jones, Knudson, etc.  Many also succeed with SnT, Foley, 5SK, etc...  However I think there is also a faulty tendency to assume that anything that is not the current fashion is "wrong".  Stack and Tilt itself has run into this criticism especially when it first came out. In my swing I start with the weight back, with the head stable over the rear leg.  I rotate around that stable rear leg and strike the ball with both feet on the ground.  Weight shifts forward AFTER the ball is gone, reacting to the weight of the clubhead.  I get great contact/distance/trajectory. Is it possible I could hit it even further by incorporating more forward weight shift into the swing?  Yes, but perhaps at the cost of less consistent contact .  I hit the ball flush with this method and my distance is more than adequate.  Just as the founders of SnT would say, I am interested in the swing that gives me the best combination of power and consistency, not just one or the other. Since my weight is pre-set back, there is no lower body movement going back - just a turning of the shoulders.  This eliminates the tendency to sway or get outside the rear foot on the backswing.  Also helps keep the head steady.  It is just like swinging an axe or hammer.  The legs stabilize the upper body. I do not think power in the golf swing comes primarily from weight shift or compression of the ball.  It comes from rotation.  That is where club head speed is generated.  You can rotate very fast around a stable rear leg without a big shift of weight forward. Like I said it works for me.  It may not work for others but that does not make it "wrong".  Lots of players spend their entire golf life trying to master the swing and never get out of the 90s, because they are stuck in a single thought pattern of what is the "correct" way.  It is good to be open-minded.

What? Actually more weight forward and more shaft lean helps promote better and more consistent contact for me. That is the NUMBER ONE thing that has made me a better golfer. If I just swing my club and let the weight shift happen after all I am doing is timing a flip. I know that's what I used to do. It sucked for me, it was a crappy swing and I was in no way consistent or long.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Real quick for everyone, yes weight forward helps us move low point forward so we can hit the ball first but is also has a big influence on path.  If my weight stays back or isn't forward enough, there is a very good chance you're going to hit a weak fade/slice because the path will be across the ball.  Test it out...

Trust me, I've been inadvertently testing it out for the past 1.5 months.  I've been hitting weak fade/slices with my 3w and driver, shanking my short irons, and overcompensating for it with an over-the-top move that has left me scratching my head for weeks...even at the range.  I had literally lost 20-30 yards with my longer irons/woods from last year when I finished the season striking it well.

I can say that partly as a result of this thread I've starting getting back to the form I was in last season.  The only thing I started trying to do differently was push my weight forward before starting the downswing.  It wasn't a light switch, but after 200-300 balls, I'm FINALLY starting to hit it like I did last season.  I'm pretty sure I was unable to get the correct path and feel for the downswing because my hips were damn near static and most of my weight was still on my right side.  They weren't clearing, so there was no room for the club to drop down inside...either I would come over the top and hit a duck-hook, or I would nearly supinate my right wrist to get the club inside, resulting in an open-faced shank or hosel-rocket.

Last night was the first range session of the year that I felt really good about.  Pretty much the entire time my only swing thoughts on the downswing were to push my hips forward and keep my right elbow connected.  Whether feel is real or not, it has helped tremendously.  I was probably carrying my 3w 200 yards 2 weeks ago, and now it's back up to around 240.

[mvmac]

Again I think the issue may be in perception or swing thoughts.  I am not moving WAY back off the ball (to use your example of putting the ball past your left toe) and then hitting while leaning backwards.  I am moving my head back over my right knee at address, essentially presetting the weight shift.  I do play the ball a little farther back in my stance to compensate for this, however I do not get line-drive trajectory as some earlier posters claimed would happen if you move ball position back.  I then rotate around my stable back leg and head, and hit the ball from the inside with a stable lower body.  The weight shifts forward after the ball is gone as part of the follow through.

At least, that is how it feels.   I suppose the weight may actually shifting forward AS I am swinging, without my thinking about it, due to the force of the arms and clubhead - however my swing thought is simply stay stable on the back leg and let the arms swing the club.  It works, for me and for many others.

My example of the ball off the left toe has nothing to do with the backswing, it's the geometry of the swing.  If I wanted to hit the biggest draws with a straightish start line I'd move the ball back, have the hands forward.  Check out the diagram below.  This isn't my opinion, just what it is.  Here's the thing, without seeing the swings or getting other data, we really don't know what's going on with your weight.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Last night was the first range session of the year that I felt really good about.  Pretty much the entire time my only swing thoughts on the downswing were to push my hips forward and keep my right elbow connected.  Whether feel is real or not, it has helped tremendously.  I was probably carrying my 3w 200 yards 2 weeks ago, and now it's back up to around 240.

Nice!

[stoverny]

Quote:

What? Actually more weight forward and more shaft lean helps promote better and more consistent contact for me. That is the NUMBER ONE thing that has made me a better golfer. If I just swing my club and let the weight shift happen after all I am doing is timing a flip. I know that's what I used to do. It sucked for me, it was a crappy swing and I was in no way consistent or long.

Why do you assume it must be a flip?  I don't feel like I am flipping at all in fact my contact is more solid and pure than ever.  It is a drive through the ball coming from the inside.  I don't rotate my forearms at all until well after impact.

In reference to the diagram posted, if you move ball position back along with weight, the line of tangency would therefore remain just ahead of the ball, wouldn't it?  Why not just move the ball to a spot that allows a descending blow, from in-to-out, with the club bottoming out just after impact.  It isn't that big of an adjustment since the weight shift to the back leg is not that great to begin with.  And it eliminates the need to shift weight forward (at least consciously).

I am not telling anyone to switch I am only saying that this method DOES work and it has basically eliminated my slice and improved my contact.  It is based on the Jerry Heard Super swing, I suppose you will all label it a gimmick but I am telling you the swing works and when executed correctly I get fantastic contact with either a slight draw or laser-straight ball flight.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by mvmac

So you don't do this

I've been playing golf for a long time and heard of the phrase, "laying the sod over it", but never really knew what that meant other than fat. I just thought it meant bits and pieces of grass and dirt  over the ball. I guess I haven't been playing long enough because I've yet to see this in person though I'm sure somewhere in the world, someone is doing it as I write this.

Revealing my ignorance.

Ah, you see? There. Someone did it again!

[cbrian]

Why? Because you have a driver

Right shoulder is going to need to lower one way or another. Things get a little less "simple" when you factor that into your system.

[bplewis24]

Should I google the "Jerry Heard Super Swing"?  Why am I instantly skeptical of any swings that are named after a single individual that I've never heard of?  I almost feel like some of these swing gurus and their following resemble a cult.  Anybody remember that website about a revolutionary swing with some sort of spiritual connection?

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Should I google the "Jerry Heard Super Swing"?  Why am I instantly skeptical of any swings that are named after a single individual that I've never heard of?  I almost feel like some of these swing gurus and their following resemble a cult.  Anybody remember that website about a revolutionary swing with some sort of spiritual connection?

Agreed.  By the way, am I a child because I chuckle when I read that you have never "heard" of "Heard?"

Yes.  Yes I am.  (And if you catch that reference you are a child too!  buhahahaha!!!)

EDIT:  By the way Brandon, WTF is up with all the "this season" and "last season" stuff in your post about ball striking troubles?  You're from Sacramento, right?  Come on, it doesn't get THAT cold up there, no need to take winters off!  Unless you're just being sympathetic towards our midwestern and northeastern friends out there. :)

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Quote:

Originally Posted by dak4n6

Same here. Game changing epiphany, except I 'discovered' weight forward before SnT came out.

Ha, I've been around long enough that I actually remember you posting about that way back when...

Something about you seeing the commercial and thinking, "holy crap, that's MY swing!!"

Yeah, I could'a made a chunk of change if I had thought it was a key that would apply to most golfers. At the time, I thought it was just a strange key that was only for me. If I recall, the convention at the time was post up your weight onto the right leg and then transfer it forward on the downswing. All that transferring was just adding in waaaaaay too much variability.

[dak4n6]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Real quick for everyone, yes weight forward helps us move low point forward so we can hit the ball first but is also has a big influence on path.  If my weight stays back or isn't forward enough, there is a very good chance you're going to hit a weak fade/slice because the path will be across the ball.  Test it out...

Trust me, I've been inadvertently testing it out for the past 1.5 months.  I've been hitting weak fade/slices with my 3w and driver, shanking my short irons, and overcompensating for it with an over-the-top move that has left me scratching my head for weeks...even at the range.  I had literally lost 20-30 yards with my longer irons/woods from last year when I finished the season striking it well.

I can say that partly as a result of this thread I've starting getting back to the form I was in last season.  The only thing I started trying to do differently was push my weight forward before starting the downswing.  It wasn't a light switch, but after 200-300 balls, I'm FINALLY starting to hit it like I did last season.  I'm pretty sure I was unable to get the correct path and feel for the downswing because my hips were damn near static and most of my weight was still on my right side.  They weren't clearing, so there was no room for the club to drop down inside...either I would come over the top and hit a duck-hook, or I would nearly supinate my right wrist to get the club inside, resulting in an open-faced shank or hosel-rocket.

Last night was the first range session of the year that I felt really good about.  Pretty much the entire time my only swing thoughts on the downswing were to push my hips forward and keep my right elbow connected.  Whether feel is real or not, it has helped tremendously.  I was probably carrying my 3w 200 yards 2 weeks ago, and now it's back up to around 240.

Good job bpl. I always really feel a sense of satisfaction when I can dig it out of the dirt and intentionally recover my game like it sounds like you did.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Should I google the "Jerry Heard Super Swing"?  Why am I instantly skeptical of any swings that are named after a single individual that I've never heard of?  I almost feel like some of these swing gurus and their following resemble a cult.  Anybody remember that website about a revolutionary swing with some sort of spiritual connection?

Ha Ha, I remember that thread, the best post from that was the guy that said, " you mean I'm supposed scream JESUS CHRIST before I hit the ball?? I've always done it after hitting the ball!", I'm paraphrasing but...yeah...good times.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Agreed.  By the way, am I a child because I chuckle when I read that you have never "heard" of "Heard?"

Yes.  Yes I am.  (And if you catch that reference you are a child too!  buhahahaha!!!)

EDIT:  By the way Brandon, WTF is up with all the "this season" and "last season" stuff in your post about ball striking troubles?  You're from Sacramento, right?  Come on, it doesn't get THAT cold up there, no need to take winters off!  Unless you're just being sympathetic towards our midwestern and northeastern friends out there. :)

Hey, don't forget us NorthNorthern Friends.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Hey, don't forget us NorthNorthern Friends.

LOL!  You guys too!

Anybody who lives in an area where that weird white stuff falls out of the sky sometimes.  What is that called again?

[stoverny]

The swing has been around for a while and to be honest very few people have even heard of it (no pun intended). There is nothing cult-like about it. It is just a swing that works. It is interesting how quickly you dismiss it, even as you admit you've never even heard of it or tried it. I have no interest in convincing anyone however I tend to be skeptical of people who mock/dismiss non-conventional wisdom out of hand. No hard feelings I just think you are rather quick to pass judgement considering you freely admit you don't know the swing at all.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by stoverny

The swing has been around for a while and to be honest very few people have even heard of it (no pun intended). There is nothing cult-like about it. It is just a swing that works. It is interesting how quickly you dismiss it, even as you admit you've never even heard of it or tried it.

I have no interest in convincing anyone however I tend to be skeptical of people who mock/dismiss non-conventional wisdom out of hand. No hard feelings I just think you are rather quick to pass judgement considering you freely admit you don't know the swing at all.

Normally, I might tend to agree with you.  I am a pretty open minded person, but in this case I think Brandon is right.  Here are the facts that you yourself just stated:

1. It's been around awhile.

2. Very few people have heard of it.

What more info do we need?  If it really worked and has been around for awhile, isn't it logical to assume that it would gain enough traction that we would start hearing about it, especially in places like this forum?  EDIT:  I'd also expect to see top pros using it too if it was that good.

I think it's perfectly fair to compile that information - with the fact that we've never heard of it being one of those pieces of information - to deduce that its probably junk.

[jclark]

Dude if you are not transfering your weight and still making good contact you are most likely timing a flip. also, You say it works wonders when executed properly. How often do you properly execute this swing?

[stoverny]

Well I would say I execute it properly most of the time. Keep in mind I was a 25 handicap and am now down to 16 since starting the swing late last summer. I am still not a very good golfer but am a much better ball striker. The swing is very easy to execute because there is no forearm rotation and no (conscious) weight shift. My miss is generally a pull. The swing uses a very strong grip and if I fall back into the habit of rotating my forearms it leads to a pull left.