Slow play at Los Angeles munis...something needs to be done

[Chas]

Aha, just read the comment about LA PC and lack of effective policing on the course. That seems very plausible.

[daSeth]

I think it is mostly the lack of proper golf culture and etiquette.  One of the first things I was taught in golf is to keep up with the group in front of you.  If you can't manage to, let the group behind you play through.  I heard it from my dad, I heard it from the parks and rec golf program instructors, I heard it from the marshals on courses.  It meant something to me as a little kid.  It means something to me still.  It's not just that, it's the rest of the golf etiquette things too.  I don't think people in LA have that background.  LA is a very diverse place and people come from all over.  I think that the majority of people simply weren't introduced to the game properly.

It also doesn't help that they let out fivesome after fivesome after fivesome...

BTW, dead serious about Rancho Vista GC in Palmdale.  Haven't played there for a few years, but when I used to it was a great little track.  Very fun.  Very reasonable.

[Clambake]

I don't think the course design had much to do with the slowness.   The LA muni courses were older but tended to have a lot of parallel holes and fairly short rough, so errant tee shots were findable without much effort and often playable.    And the greens didn't tend to be very fast, so that didn't seem to hurt it much.

I didn't see a particular demographic that would inherently contribute to slowness, although I did see one funny and very aggravating experience (more on that below).   But it seemed like there was a nice microcosm of society on the LA muni courses just like any other place.  You'd have all parts of the spectrum from doctors and lawyers to unemployed roofers and gardeners.   Hey, I even saw a recently acquitted former NFL player turned murderer at Griffith Park once.

But what one did see is the fundamental result of relatively few muni/public courses in a metropolis of over 8 million people: tee times way too close together and fivesomes.     I recall a few courses had times spaced 6 minutes apart.   It was pretty much a given that if you had a tee time later than about 8:30am you would already be 1/2 hour behind before you even started.     And although fivesomes weren't every group, you'd always see fair a number of them.

I also found that there wasn't that much difference between weekdays and weekends.   I attributed that to a combination of the entertainment industry and the very large service industry.   It seemed every time I'd pop out on a weekend I'd be teamed with people who either worked nights in restaurants or clubs or people from the TV and movie business, usually trades people and the occasional actor.

Seriously, if I still lived on the west side in LA, I would not have golf as a hobby.    It was simply way too time consuming and frustrating.

The one funny/aggravating experience was at Rancho Park once before the Japanese bubble economy burst.   Many Japanese business men would fly to LA for a few days of golf, as it was cheaper for them than playing locally at home.    One day we got caught behind a group that had apparently come into town, went straight to the Callaway store on Century Blvd, and then to Rancho.    They had all brand new gear consisting of Callaway's finest at that time.      It was also apparent that this group had a mix of the senior manager and a couple underlings, so for those familiar with hierarchical Japanese business, you can start to picture the dynamic we experienced.    They'd get on the green and all go mark their ball, and then all come off to the side of the green and wait while one person walk all around the green trying to read his putt, go line it up and eventually hit it.  Then he'd mark his ball and go to the side of the green, and the next person would do the same.   The process repeated until eventually all were in the hole, after which there would be much bowing, mostly in deference to the senior leader.   It was really pretty funny to watch for a couple holes and then became extremely frustrating, so we just jumped around them; I don't even think they noticed.

[Stretch]

Funny stuff, Clambake.

As semi-nomads in the globalized economy, the Mrs. and I have been talking about possible next stops -- and both L.A. and Hong Kong have come up. Now I'm seriously wondering which would be worse for golf.

[colin007]

Funny stuff, Clambake. As semi-nomads in the globalized economy, the Mrs. and I have been talking about possible next stops -- and both L.A. and Hong Kong have come up. Now I'm seriously wondering which would be worse for golf. :blink:

Upstate NY isn't bad at all...

[nevets88]

As bad as LA sounds, LA is much better than HK I would think.

[Golfingdad]

As bad as LA sounds, LA is much better than HK I would think.

Agreed. Hk, as I understand it, is just ridiculously infested with people (vs the size) so if that carries over to golf at all then all courses are going to always be crowded. In la, you can make an early Saturday morning drive down to oc or out to inland empire and join us for a "fairly" decent paced round at any number of courses. We have no shortage of those (whereas I get the impression that hk does).

[RayG]

Sure, everyone learns to "let faster players through", etc... but in metropolitan areas like NY, LA and the like- there isn't any ROOM to let people play though. All it takes is that ONE group in the first couple of times to slow down and it's crapped for the rest of the day. Along with the short intervals to maximize revenue and the lack of Ranger patrols, it is a no win situation. If there's 2 groups on every tee, where do you go?

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by Stretch

As semi-nomads in the globalized economy, the Mrs. and I have been talking about possible next stops -- and both L.A. and Hong Kong have come up. Now I'm seriously wondering which would be worse for golf.

I looked into playing in HK when visiting there a few years ago, and as I recall there was one public golf course there.    Seven million people and one public course.   There were about 5-6 private clubs, and that was it.     I think if you're into golf and live in HK you go to Mission Hills in Shenzhen for the weekend.    And have a high limit on your credit card.

[jamo]

Funny stuff, Clambake. As semi-nomads in the globalized economy, the Mrs. and I have been talking about possible next stops -- and both L.A. and Hong Kong have come up. Now I'm seriously wondering which would be worse for golf. :blink:

That range in Northborough is generally pretty empty...

[Stretch]

Originally Posted by jamo

That range in Northborough is generally pretty empty...

Even when it's not under snow.

[nevets88]

I complain all the time about slow play, but I think as far as golf is concerned, the US has it the best compared to most of the world in terms of cost, practice facilities and course variety. I haven't been to Australia though, but its high tier courses are so expensive. I dunno about the middle tier.

[Chas]

The one funny/aggravating experience was at Rancho Park once before the Japanese bubble economy burst.   Many Japanese business men would fly to LA for a few days of golf, as it was cheaper for them than playing locally at home.    One day we got caught behind a group that had apparently come into town, went straight to the Callaway store on Century Blvd, and then to Rancho.    They had all brand new gear consisting of Callaway's finest at that time.      It was also apparent that this group had a mix of the senior manager and a couple underlings, so for those familiar with hierarchical Japanese business, you can start to picture the dynamic we experienced.    They'd get on the green and all go mark their ball, and then all come off to the side of the green and wait while one person walk all around the green trying to read his putt, go line it up and eventually hit it.  Then he'd mark his ball and go to the side of the green, and the next person would do the same.   The process repeated until eventually all were in the hole, after which there would be much bowing, mostly in deference to the senior leader.   It was really pretty funny to watch for a couple holes and then became extremely frustrating, so we just jumped around them; I don't even think they noticed.

Thanks for sharing, hilarious. I used to work for a Japanese pharma co. and know whereof you speak. The good thing was I had just started playing somewhat regularly when I joined the company and always got invited to business rounds when the guys from the home office (Tokyo) showed up. Almost everyone bought at least one new club every visit, as I would have done in their shoes (everything is much more expensive in Japan of course). We always had a blast - they knew how to enjoy themselves in the bar afterwards.

[Polynikes]

Wow I'm shocked by these stories of such extreme slow play, I don't think I'd play golf anymore if it took 6 hours to play a round and all the tees had such a wait! I play at the Royal Eastbourne in England and have never had a round longer that 4 1/2 hours and rarely have to wait longer than a few minutes for the group ahead to be out of range. I certainly feel lucky now after hearing other people's struggles!