Tipping

[AndrewM]

  iacas said:

That's just garbage. I'm sure many people might draw the line between $100 and $130 or whatever.

If you want to try to explain it away, go right ahead... I guess it helps you feel better about it? Whether its $75, $100, $130 or $200... if someone is there hustling their ass off so you dont have to touch your bag and you are set to go when its your time... and you cant afford (or are just simply to damn cheap) to toss them a couple bucks... I mean come on, you cant possibly feel good about that... can you?

[Striper]

I've played East Lake several times and yes, there is a no tipping policy. But...most people, especially guests, tip the caddies, bag staff, and locker room attendents during their visit to the club. Just be quick and discreet.

We have the same policy at my club but I usually tip when the guys/girls are working hard, especially when it's hot and humid. Tipping also helps to keep the good employees on staff and working hard.

[GoingfortheGreen]

It all depends on circumstances for me -- I've always tipped. For my home course, it's just the cart girl. For other nicer courses, it depends on the service. I played Wren Dale in Hershey ($85), and there was someone who brought a cart to your car and put your clubs on - he got a few bucks. Now, at Tidewater in Myrtle (~$100 or more), I paid the guy who took the clubs out of the car, the guy who put them on the cart (different person), cart girl, and the guy who cleaned the clubs after the round! We could have left our clubs there and brought the car around - we would have then tipped someone to put them in - we chose to walk with them to the car

I assume the guys doing this stuff are in the 'service industry', so I think it's okay to give a few bucks. But, in all honesty it adds up. At Tidewater, I paid $20 just in tips!! That's one less dance

[AndrewM]

  GoingfortheGreen said:

It all depends on circumstances for me -- I've always tipped. For my home course, it's just the cart girl. For other nicer courses, it depends on the service. I played Wren Dale in Hershey ($85), and there was someone who brought a cart to your car and put your clubs on - he got a few bucks. Now, at Tidewater in Myrtle (~$100 or more), I paid the guy who took the clubs out of the car, the guy who put them on the cart (different person), cart girl, and the guy who cleaned the clubs after the round! We could have left our clubs there and brought the car around - we would have then tipped someone to put them in - we chose to walk with them to the car

In the interest of being reasonable... it is safe to assume that All outside services people pool tips.

That includes, valet, bad drop, starter ( if its not some old guy on the tee) and the guys at the end cleaning clubs, bringing them back to the drop etc. General etiquette would dictate either a buck or two at teh start and the same at the end... Generally I just throw a $5 at the end. Further more... nothing is more annoying than having some guy "shoo" you away when you are trying to do your job... tip, dont tip, whatever, just let me do my damn job. ( I worked at a resort course in Orlando for a while )

[iacas]

  AndrewM said:

If you want to try to explain it away, go right ahead... I guess it helps you feel better about it?

Don't try to stake out some moral high ground, Andrew. I'm simply saying that someone might see a course that costs $100 as being worthwhile, but might draw the line if they have to pay $30 in tips on top of that. That's half a day of work for some people in just tips.

  AndrewM said:

Whether its $75, $100, $130 or $200... if someone is there hustling their ass off so you dont have to touch your bag and you are set to go when its your time... and you cant afford (or are just simply to damn cheap) to toss them a couple bucks... I mean come on, you cant possibly feel good about that... can you?

I don't ask them to "hustle their ass off" - I take care of my bag, clubs, etc. - and again, they're getting paid already.

I'll tip a caddie if they do anything slightly above and beyond, I tip 20% for even mediocre service at restaurants (where waiters/waitresses make $2.50/hour or whatever they get), but I don't WANT anyone to touch my clubs nor do I want to tip them if they happen to sneak over and clean them when I wasn't paying attention, no.

  AndrewM said:

Further more... nothing is more annoying than having some guy "shoo" you away when you are trying to do your job... tip, dont tip, whatever, just let me do my damn job. ( I worked at a resort course in Orlando for a while )

You didn't understand your job, then, because your job is NEVER to annoy a guest who doesn't want you to touch his clubs. You should offer, and when told "no thanks," go away. You shouldn't need to be "shooed" away.

[AndrewM]

  iacas said:

I'm simply saying that someone might see a course that costs $100 as being worthwhile, but might draw the line if they have to pay $30 in tips on top of that. That's half a day of work for some people in just tips.

When you quote me saying you should spend another 30% in tips you let me know. Until then, I'll point out that I said a "couple bucks" is enough.. or in my case generally about $5. So your Exaggeration of an additional 25% or more seems to be the sticking point. Still cant afford, or dont think, a couple dollars is reasonable? But if you need to exaggerate to make your point.... well you know how that goes.

[iacas]

  AndrewM said:

When you quote me saying you should spend another 30% in tips you let me know.

If you read the original post - the one I linked to - I wasn't making up the extra $30. $5 spread around to the beverage cart girl (maybe twice), the halfway house, the bag drop person, the guy who cleans your clubs,your caddies (more than $5), the starter - it adds up fast.

From the article, they say golf in America sometimes feels like:

  None said:

a series of people with their hands out, punctuated by the occasional gap wedge. The parking valet. The kid who puts your bag on a cart. The starter. The caddiemaster. The caddie, forecaddie or cart-caddie. The cart girl or geezer. The club cleaner. The locker-room attendant. The kid who takes your clubs to the bag drop. The kid who puts your clubs in your trunk. The guy who directs you to the nearest ATM. And so on.

[Big Don]

Well tipping has become the norm everywhere in the states, even when the slightest courtesy is provided whether the guest requests it or not. Valet parking at expensive hotels at $20+, the guy putting your bag on a trolley and rolling it 300 feet expecting $5, Waiters who are barely trained expecting $10 for force feeding you coke refills.

The bottom line is people expect tips for simply doing their job. Tipping started as a way of showing your regard for exceptional service. To my mind a tip should be a small gratuity for exceptional service, not $40/h for a surly, mediocre "jobsworth" performance.

[lamebums]

Normally you don't need to tip the guy - unless he gives you some magic fix that instantly save 10 strokes, then a few extra dollars might be in order. As to making your own thread, I think you need to have at least 4 posts in other places first.

[The Rambler]

  dwsell said:

I have never been to a course where an employee has handled my bag or performed a service that would warrant a tip. I know that there are courses that come grab your bag when you arrive and perform other services, but to me this is part of the courses amenities and should not warrant a tip.

Well hear it from a caddie's perspective. Tipping someone for carrying your bag from the bag drop to the tee is something we do as an extra thing while we are waiting to go home or for our loop. We call it "shagging bags." We don't expect $10 or even $5 but if your are able to pay to play at a nice course where caddies or bag boys work than you should be able to "scrounge" up 2 or 3 bucks. I dont have a lot of cash to spare but if i play at a course where someone on the staff helps me carry my bag or cleans of some of the crap on my clubs i will tip them a couple bucks. ALL TIPS ARE APPERCIATED! At the club where i caddie at all my cash comes from tips. It usually breaks down this way 1.) $40-$50 for the 18 hole round 2.) $10 for shagging some bags. 3.) about $5 from othere odd jobs. in all that does total up but pitching in to help someone pay for his/her lunch makes you look so much better in the eyes of the staff. It's always good to have friends on the inside to give you litte perks

[Silvertree]

  Big Don said:

The bottom line is people expect tips for simply doing their job.

That depends on what industry you are talking about. I can't comment on golf, I normally play public courses that don't offer the services previously mentioned. However if you are talking about the food industry, it isn't that people started expecting tips. Restaurant owners justify paying servers below (or if they are lucky, at) minimum wage by the "their tips make up for it" mentality. Don't blame the servers. Or at least not without blaming the whole industry.

[ERichardson]

I guess what I don't get is the "don't touch my clubs" mentality. I mean, I can understand it if I took my clubs to say, a demolition site where I would expect someone to not really care about the condition or the value of my clubs...they're there to destroy things. But when you pull up at a golf course and their representative asks me if they can carry my bag, why not? What are they going to do, steal something from it? Drop my bag and scatter my clubs all over the parking lot? Pull them out and whack them against the clubhouse?

More than likely, I would think...no, I know they know the value of clubs so why the "hands off" policy?

Oh, and yes -- I do tip anyone that provides a service to me regardless of small or large. I was in the industry for 8 years so I know what making a couple of bucks can mean.

This is where I believe that every single human being should be forced to work in the food or hospitality industry when they're young. I watch people treat tipped employees like dirt. They're not YOUR servants, they're there to provide a service of which a large portion of their salary depends on tips.

Lastly, yeah -- they get paid. No, it's not much.

[AndrewM]

It seems this thread has found a very definitive line... People who know the industry from the inside and people that dont.

Lends a lot of credence to the idea of walking a mile in someone else's shoes.

[rosteven]

No caddies or club cleaners where I play, the cart girl normally gets a buck or two depending the amount of swing lub purchased.

[iacas]

  ERichardson said:

I was in the industry for 8 years so I know what making a couple of bucks can mean.

  AndrewM said:

It seems this thread has found a very definitive line... People who know the industry from the inside and people that dont.

I worked in the (fast) food industry when I was in high school and have had plenty of other "industry" and "service-related" jobs since then. I know the industry "from the inside" and I disagree with the whole "tip everybody" mentality. When's the last time you tipped someone at McDonald's? I was actually offered tips at several of my jobs and refused them because that was the policy.

  ERichardson said:

Lastly, yeah -- they get paid. No, it's not much.

Hey, they're being paid what the club feels they're worth. If I choose not to use their services, I'm not going to be made to feel bad about that.

I've never said I don't tip people when I use their services. I do. I just choose not to use the services very often. People at McDonald's still get paid if I cook for myself, and club cleaners at the courses still get paid their hourly wage for NOT cleaning my clubs. I'm not going to feel bad, either, for the low wages these people earn. They've agreed to do the job for what it pays. Since I tip on the rare occasion I use the services, it's a more philosophical discussion for me, and if forced to think about it, I'd probably come down on the side of not tipping at all. I'd probably decide "hey, do your job, collect your paycheck, and be happy about it or do something to change it." That's how it works at McDonald's, right? Or do they add gratuity now for parties 6 or larger, those with whiny kids, or those who can't make up their minds? No. You guys have a free, public forum here which costs us money. Have any of you ever tipped us? No - and we don't expect or want you to. So philosophically, I'd come down on the side of "don't tip anyone." If a golf course wants to provide an "upscale" feel by having a valet service and club cleaners and whatever else, I'd rather just pay the price. Let everyone take their cut from that. Of course, that will never happen because we've become too entrenched in this "tipping" mindset. We tip far too frequently, and we tip too much. My cousin works a single Saturday shift (five hours, even) at a restaurant in Pittsburgh. It's upscale food, and he makes $100/hour in tips with just four or five tables. Even he knows it's a scam. We tip 15% at restaurants for horrible service. My club, even in the grillroom, automatically adds a 15% gratuity. All that's led to is complacency - nobody tries to "earn" a tip anymore because it's guaranteed. It's almost related to this whole sense of "entitlement" people in the U.S. seem to feel. It's rather disgusting, really. Tipping began as a way to reward people for a job exceptionally well done, not just a job done. It's gotten away from that, and that's regrettable. Anyway, my personal policy is simple: I try not to use services I don't want because I also don't want to feel obligated to tip someone for something they're already being paid to do. On the rare occasion I partake of a service, I tip simply because I'm expected to and not because I necessarily agree with the whole concept. --- One final story: I was playing a few holes with a bag boy at one of my clubs. He was complaining about guys not tipping well. He told me that some guys would use their services (clean clubs, load bags, etc.) and then rifle through their 100s, 50s, 20s, 5s, before tipping measly dollar or two. I can understand how that kind of stinks. It's like being teased. And it's usually the guys with the big heavy staff bags, too, he said. I specifically asked if I was on the bag boy shit list for never tipping at all (because I never use their services). He said "no, we know you take care of your own stuff, so it just lets us take care of someone else or chill for a few seconds." Fine by me.

[Shindig]

  iacas said:

I posted a comment on an article

I tip well over the expected amount for good service off the course (i.e., restaurants, etc). But that isn't the point here; I just wanted to add it to what follows. I play munis mostly, which generally don't have anyone who could take a tip, other than a one that has a cart girl. I tip here because all the cart girls I've run into at the only course here that has them seem to know when to move and how to stay out of the way. Last time we ran into one, she knew to stay out of sight while we hit our tee shots; our reaction was something on the order of "Did you realize the cart girl saw your tee shot? No, me neither." Three of us went towards her for refreshments, the fourth went to look for his ball. As he was searching, she called out its location to him and he found it promptly. He tipped her $2, but didn't order anything. I did get annoyed at a resort course once when, post-round, someone tried to clean my clubs. I clean my clubs obsessively and have two cleaning devices with me, plus my towels. I don't need him to do it. I tried to tip a starter once when he put me on the course immediately when I showed up on a Sunday morning without a reservation. $29 round, I pulled $5 out of my wallet to tip and he pointed to the "Starters may not accept tips" sign and said "thanks anyway."

[ERichardson]

  iacas said:

Hey, they're being paid what the club feels they're worth. If I choose not to use their services, I'm not going to be made to feel bad about that.

Nobody ever said you should.

  iacas said:

I'm not going to feel bad, either, for the low wages these people earn. They've agreed to do the job for what it pays. Since I tip on the rare occasion I use the services, it's a more philosophical discussion for me, and if forced to think about it, I'd probably come down on the side of not tipping at all. I'd probably decide "hey, do your job, collect your paycheck, and be happy about it or do something to change it." That's how it works at McDonald's, right? Or do they add gratuity now for parties 6 or larger, those with whiny kids, or those who can't make up their minds? No.

This isn't Reservoir Dogs and you're not making too much sense with your McDonald's payscale theory. Nobody is asking you to 'feel sorry' for anyone. However, the fact remains that there are jobs in this country where people are paid less because the majority of the job pays out in tips. Are there going to be people that don't tip? Sure.

  iacas said:

You guys have a free, public forum here which costs us money. Have any of you ever tipped us? No - and we don't expect or want you to.

Then why did you feel the need to bring it up? If you started this website with the theory that it was paid for by its users, then it would be understood. If you now just started expecting everyone to 'tip' you then I doubt you would see much money, if any, coming in.

I'm not trying to be a prick here but honestly, you asked the question. I just feel that people that take advantage of a situation and don't tip someone and then convientently claim that that this whole 'tipping thing' has gotten out of hand, is a cop out. Again, my opinion. I fall on the side of it's perfectly fine to tip and that's my choice.

[Big Don]

  Silvertree said:

That depends on what industry you are talking about. I can't comment on golf, I normally play public courses that don't offer the services previously mentioned. However if you are talking about the food industry, it isn't that people started expecting tips. Restaurant owners justify paying servers below (or if they are lucky, at) minimum wage by the "their tips make up for it" mentality. Don't blame the servers. Or at least not without blaming the whole industry.

Fair point Silvertree.