How to Effectively Create Lag on the Downswing

[Ernest Jones]

Damnit, that was a perfect opportunity to try the multi quote on the IPhone. [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing/0_100#post_847691"] Brandon, you're a forum leader. Somebody nominated you and Erik accepted so that's how you got in. Most of us had to buy our way in. ;)[/quote] [quote name="bplewis24" url="/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing/0_100#post_847704"] Hmmm, must be one of the guys I paid off to be my friend.  I guess we all pay in our own way [/quote] Yep. Some of you smart and witty guys get invited. Guys like me gotta pony up. There. :-D Great, I just became more proficient at wasting my day on TST. That's a mixed blessing :-P

[iacas]

Okay, back to topic please.

[IvanSanders]

Pursuing a great amount of lag is what a lot of golfers do believing such to be a universal head speed bedrock.

The opposite train of thought is, to use the late Mike Austin's words, "to work with gravity."

Some players naturally work with gravity whilst others naturally rely on massive lag / a very fast wrist action.

Both techniques unarguably create hitting distance and I suggest that the best technique is the one which essentially comes natural to each player.

I agree with an earlier contributor, namely that to pursue more lag is a questionable exercise.

It's fine to pursue whatever one wishes, but perhaps important to realise that there are other ways to go which may achieve the same or a better result and more in harmony with each player's natural swing.

[iacas]

How much clubhead speed do you possibly think gravity can add?

Cuz it ain't much, and because every swing is a "downswing," every swing "works with gravity" to add the insignificant amount of clubhead speed.

Ivan, did you watch the video, read the first post, or the rest of the thread?

[Jumbo Debt]

I tried to 'manufacture' lag for years but without success. Recently I have followed the advice of taking the club back with my left arm only while at the same time setting my wrists in a cocked position early in the backswing. It has improved everything. Finally I hit the ball farther with my irons with a better ball fight and more control. In the backswing I now have time to think about putting my right elbow into my side on the downswing whereas before everything was rushed and off balance trying to 'create' this lag thing.

[Jumbo Debt]

Let me add that at 5' 4" and 135 lbs I need to use my hands in order to get the clubhead moving. It was suggested to me that being of slight stature it would benefit me to cock my wrists early in my backswing. After a a year or two of practicing and trying to wrap my head around this idea the work is finally paying off. I finally understand this idea of the sequence of movement in the Five Lessons.

[Mr. Desmond]

Good to review this again, Mike.

Question: Why are Sergio's elbows spread at impact? Looks like he needs a lesson.

[mvmac]

Good to review this again, Mike.

Question: Why are Sergio's elbows spread at impact? Looks like he needs a lesson.

Sergio's head goes so far down that he has to separate them a bit.

[JonMA1]

The more I re-examine these posts, the more I realize how much more work is needed. If I'm understanding this thread correctly...

I don't want to hinge the wrists too early or even be hinged 100% at the top (I am currently hinging my wrists early).

I want to drop my hands but not my rear shoulder too early on the downswing.

I want the wrist-hinge to increase on the downswing.

Is this correct.

While trying to learn proper sequencing - meaning I'm doing everything slowly and deliberately - I'm having to consciously keep my shoulders and hands behind me (holding back on my upper body rotation) on the downswing or I will come over the top. When I'm able to bring my hips forward and hands very low, I feel like I'm creating lag. But the club shaft is still pointing behind me and the face open. While this creates what I believe is an in to out path, it requires a last second "release" of my wrists to square the club face. If I can straighten both arms on the followthrough, all of this seems relatively easy. The result of this swing is pretty good club head speed and what I think is a good angle of attack at impact.

Does any of this seem incorrect as I've described it. I know video is best but I'm still trying to learn the big picture at this point. I cannot yet perform any of this at full speed.

[Jumbo Debt]

Two moves I like on the downswing while maintaining the same spine angle as at address:

1) Turn hips to the left.

2) Come into impact with hands low.

[mvmac]

The more I re-examine these posts, the more I realize how much more work is needed. If I'm understanding this thread correctly...

I don't want to hinge the wrists too early or even be hinged 100% at the top (I am currently hinging my wrists early).

I want to drop my hands but not my rear shoulder too early on the downswing.

I want the wrist-hinge to increase on the downswing.

Is this correct.

Without seeing your swing it's tough for me to say what YOU need to do but in terms general sequencing, as you transfer forward the arms are lowering down.  I don't think it's a good idea to increase the wrist hinge on the downswing, lag happens with good sequencing.  On the backswing the wrist hinge is gradual.

While trying to learn proper sequencing - meaning I'm doing everything slowly and deliberately - I'm having to consciously keep my shoulders and hands behind me (holding back on my upper body rotation) on the downswing or I will come over the top. When I'm able to bring my hips forward and hands very low, I feel like I'm creating lag. But the club shaft is still pointing behind me and the face open. While this creates what I believe is an in to out path, it requires a last second "release" of my wrists to square the club face. If I can straighten both arms on the followthrough, all of this seems relatively easy. The result of this swing is pretty good club head speed and what I think is a good angle of attack at impact.

You might need to feel more closed with the shoulders but don't over do it.  The shoulders and hips should open on the downswing.  Two common reasons I see people "come over the top", they don't turn enough on the backswing and they don't get their weight forward on the downswing.  When you are doing these practice swings, get that left knee past the left ankle, "crush the ball" under that left foot.

But the club shaft is still pointing behind me and the face open. While this creates what I believe is an in to out path, it requires a last second "release" of my wrists to square the club face. If I can straighten both arms on the followthrough, all of this seems relatively easy. The result of this swing is pretty good club head speed and what I think is a good angle of attack at impact.

Does any of this seem incorrect as I've described it. I know video is best but I'm still trying to learn the big picture at this point. I cannot yet perform any of this at full speed.

I would much rather you err on the club head a little in than outside the hands, if that's even an err

[JonMA1]

You might need to feel more closed with the shoulders but don't over do it.  The shoulders and hips should open on the downswing.  Two common reasons I see people "come over the top", they don't turn enough on the backswing and they don't get their weight forward on the downswing.  When you are doing these practice swings, get that left knee past the left ankle, "crush the ball" under that left foot.

Thank you Mike. I'm beginning to believe that proper weight forward is the most important part of the 5sk in that it allows for many of the other keys and components of the swing. Unfortunately, it has proven the hardest for me to master. But I'm working at it and will eventually get it.

[mvmac]

Thank you Mike. I'm beginning to believe that proper weight forward is the most important part of the 5sk in that it allows for many of the other keys and components of the swing. Unfortunately, it has proven the hardest for me to master. But I'm working at it and will eventually get it.

Yep I'm sure you will, just keep practicing it the right way.  Weight forward might be the most important part of a good swing, not just 5SK Obviously all the Keys are important and the Keys are numbered for prioritization but I think the biggest differential between a high handicap and a low handicap is the amount of weight forward at impact.

[impactswing]

The only common element in every tour level swing is the weight has mostly transferred to front side and hip rotation has occurred, so hips are 45+ degrees toward target at impact. Amateurs often have most of the weight on back foot at impact and hips square to ball. If you look at just IMPACT POSITIONS of tour players you see almost identical positions in hip rotation and back foots heel has risen showing weight transfer has occurred. The pro move starts at top of the swing, pros plant weight solidly onto front foot, that drops hands inside and low into the slot, the weight transfer and hip rotation creates the lag, end result is, hips 45 degrees or more toward target at impact and back foots heel off ground. If you know where to look, every tour player becomes identical at impact. Pros heads move slightly down on backswing and down again on downswing. Most anateurs rise a little backswing and rise again on downswing.

[Phil McGleno]

I think the folks here would say there are five things in common-And Id tend to agree.[quote name="impactswing" url="/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing/54#post_950826"]The only common element in every tour level swing is the weight has mostly transferred to front side and hip rotation has occurred, so hips are 45+ degrees toward target at impact. Amateurs often have most of the weight on back foot at impact and hits square to ball. If you look at just IMPACT POSITIONS of tour players you see almost identical positions in hip rotation and back foots heel has risen showing weight transfer has occurred.[/quote] But one of them is weight forward at impacdt-Yes. PGA Tour pros are not all 45 deg though. I have good students anywhere from 20 to 60.-Furyk is almost 80 or 90.

[Billy Z]

Has anybody tried this technique with a rope? It's very inexpensive, and appears to helpful :

[Crazycanuck44]

[=5][/] I'd probably whip myself to death. :-D

[golfsos]

This is my first post. I can't imagine that lag is artificially created. It is a result is the swing imo. In the forward rotation, the arms stay totally passive and the body rotates totally forward and around with the club trying to stay behind my shoulders. The rotation will bring the hands and arms forward and the club head stays behind. It feels as if the hands ante being slung towards the target. However, eventually the club will sling forward, through the ball and out to the target. I think people lose lag when they attempt to swing the club in any way towards the balls. Ignore the ball, never swing the club or even try to hit down. Only rotate all the way forward and trust that gravity will eventually drop the club to the ball... Cause it will...every single time.