Breaking a Windshield Playing Golf

[Brad Merrill]

This is my first time at The Sand Trap. I had a question for fellow golfers. I am a member at a local country club and have been for a few years. The set up of the course is a 9 hole course with a few holes on the "back 9" using different tee offs with the same greens as the front. Hole #2 green is right in front of the clubhouse/bar. Between the clubhouse and in bounds is about 20 feet of driveway. There are two different parking lots to park in but sometimes people going to the bar( never golfers as they realize there is a golf course there) park along the driveway. There is about 2 feet of rough after the fringe, then posts marking out of bounds, then the driveway. I have complained of cars parking here many times and the owner said it is their own problem. Now yesterday I hit an approach from 150 with an easy 9 iron and it looked pretty good, but it carried long and went through the back window of a car. I told the owner of the club and he said it was my fault and would be covered under my home owners insurance. Is this true?

[Nutter]

I can't say for certain, but I'm 99% sure golf courses aren't liable for those types of incidents.  Most people don't man up and let the person know though.  They are parking/living at a golf course at their own risk.

[Brad Merrill]

Ya, I was wondering about the car owner though. There are parking areas away from the course but they are too lazy to park there and instead park 5 feet behind a par 4 green. If I was dumb enough to park there I wouldn't expect someone else to pay for my damages unless it was done purposely. But thanks.

[Wheels309]

I'm not sure how you can be held accountable unless it was done with intent, which doesn't seem to be the case. I find it similar to what you see at baseball and softball fields where there is parking right behind the outfield fence. If a home run is hit and goes through the windshield, the person who hit the ball would not be held responsible. Is parking along the driveway permitted, or do drivers do so without proper parking spaces? The golf course should really have signs posted warning drivers of this inherent risk or nets placed to prevent these accidents from happening.

[Brad Merrill]

There are no actual signs. When I have brought it up in the past, because it causes you to drop down a club and end up being short usually, the owner said they should realize they are at a golf course. Then when it happens he says I am at fault. I feel the same way though, I play in a softball league and the same night a person hit a foul ball into a car and dented it and everyone went on knowing it is the owner of the cars fault for parking there and accepting the risk. I do not see how it is different.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I would hate to say I knew the legal answer - but my philosophy would be what Nutter said.  That is the risk you take to live/park at a golf course.  I would not offer anything, but make them come after me.

[Motley01]

I agree with what the others said. I'm no attorney, but it would hard for the car owner to prove intent on vandolism on a car at a golf course.

I don't think there is much they can do. I would also call the police station and ask them about this situation.

Yell at the owner of the club, make a huge scene about it, they need to block access to that driveway, thats just being a stupid owner. What does it take, to put a couple of cones up with a sign that says no parking.

[teed off]

I would find a new club that does not have this car parking issue.

[SCfanatic35]

I would have to believe that this has to fall under, "a reasonable person would know that their is an inherent risk of parking their car behind a green on a golf course", kind of thing.  Thus relieving you of any legal responsibility, of course I am know legal expert it is just my opinion.

Last year one of my friends did something similar.  Hole 9 at my course is bordered down the left side by a street with houses.  The people that live there usually park their cars on the street in front of their home, which is nuts IMO because they have garages.  One day my friend hooked a shot OB and into the driver side door leaving a big dent.  Even though it was not his responsibility to pay for it, he did just so that he wasn't shunned at the club.

[infoe]

Im an insurance agent and can tell you that yes the vehicle owner could file a claim against your homeowners liability if you gave them that information. They could also just file the glass claim through their auto carrier and be done with it.

[SCfanatic35]

  infoe said:

Originally Posted by infoe

Im an insurance agent and can tell you that yes the vehicle owner could file a claim against your homeowners liability if you gave them that information. They could also just file the glass claim through their auto carrier and be done with it.

You don't think the golfer's insurance company would tell the vehicle owner to piss off and deny the claim?  I don't know anything about insurance claims payouts, just wondering why they would pay a 3rd party when they seldom pay the insured without a issue or two coming up.

I wouldn't park my car near the line of fire at a baseball field, golf course, shooting range, etc...  If I was unfortunate enough to still be hit by something, then I wouldn't be pissed at the person who did it.

[meenman]

Honestly, liability should not be a big deal. I have never had a car insurance policy that did not have deductible-free glass replacement.

I wouldnt worry about it.

[bkuehn1952]

I have been in the insurance business for over 35 years.

Give the car owner your name, telephone number and address.  Tell him/her to contact his/her insurance company and you should contact your home insurer.  Your home insurance should cover any accidental damage for which you may be responsible.  If you are not responsible, your insurer should defend you or negotiate a good deal on your behalf.  If you are contacted by the car owner or his/her insurer directly, refer them to your insurance company and/or agent.  Let the insurance companies work it out.  Every state has different legal precedents concerning assumption of risk as it relates to errant golf shots.   Don't try to do the insurer's job for them.  You buy insurance so as to not have to worry about who is at fault or what your legal responsibilities might be.  Do the right thing and tell the car owner what happened and tell the insurer or agent the same story and go play some more golf.  And club down next time on that hole!

[Spyder]

  infoe said:

Originally Posted by infoe

Im an insurance agent and can tell you that yes the vehicle owner could file a claim against your homeowners liability if you gave them that information. They could also just file the glass claim through their auto carrier and be done with it.

Um, golf courses are liable for damage to vehicles on their property so long as the incident is justified and witnessed as an accident and not intentional damage. This is the same as if you hit a house and knock out a window, damage the siding, damage the roof, damage a car on the property, etc. The course's insurance covers the damage and the golfer is in no way liable.

Of course, this is if you live in a golf community and on a golf course. If you do not live in this type of community, homeowner's may be your only outlet - however I do know if several people who have won court cases who sued the golf course for coverage of damage to avoid making a claim on their insurance due to golfers damaging their homes which are near the course, but not affiliated with it or a golfing community.

I am not sure what type of insurance company you work for, but the course is definitely always reliable. I am very close friends with 2 managers of 2 different golf courses and one owner of a course and they have all confirmed that they are liable for damage.

One course in particular is parallel to a major highway and they are liable for any damage caused if an errant shot were to be hit onto the highway and damage a vehicle, or vehicles.

It is assumed that the parking lot be a safe enough distance away as to not cause damage. You are not "parking at the golf course in the parking lot at your own risk". You are, but technically you are not because you are simply not responsible for damage to your vehicle or property.

[sofingaw]

Um, most courses I play have signs that say the golfer is responsible, and that the course is NOT responsible. Could be meaningless, BS signs in the eyes of the law, I don't know. I'm no lawyer or insurance man. But I can verify that is the policy that is posted where I often play.

[BuckeyeNut]

IMO.....making an insurance claim for a small BS item like a broken window is stupid.  What is your HO deductible?  ..........just offer to pay to replace the back window.  At the most...it's probably a few hundred bucks.  Even if you call your insurance company about damage, and you decide not to have the work done, it still count's as a claim and it works against you just as if they paid.  Pretty soon...you'll be looking for a new insurance company!!  (after you get rated)

I know from experience...I had 1 or 2 claims where no work was done or money was paid out, but I had to change insurance companies because they counted as claims........and I was rated.  I carry a high deductible now....if it's a petty BS problem, I take care of it myself.

[jetsknicks1]

  meenman said:

Honestly, liability should not be a big deal. I have never had a car insurance policy that did not have deductible-free glass replacement. I wouldnt worry about it.

That was my thought. Wasn't sure if it only covered windshields though.

[flintcreek6412]

I can only speak from my experience a few years ago.  I was playing a semi private club and it happened to be bingo night.  People didn't want to walk from the far end of the lot so they parked off the drive by the clubhouse.  I hit an awful pull hook that put a dent in the side of a car.  I took cell phone pics of the damage and  where the car was parked and went to the pro shop and let them know I hit the car.  I left my name and number.

The car owner called and wanted me to pay damages.  I told him I left my info as a courtesy but he parked his car in the course of play.  He was in the rough and not OB.  Long story short he took me to small claims and since I felt like engaging in the battle and not calling my insurance company I defended myself.  It didn't hurt that I testify in court often in the course of my career and most judges are familiar with me.  I simply presented my evidence of the car being parked in the field of play and that other parking was available that the driver opted to ignore.  The judge point blank stated that by parking in the field of play the car owner had no expectation of protection from golf balls.  If the car was parked OB the judge stated that the golfer would assume liability for the errant shot.

Keep in mind that not every golfer owns a home thus carrying home owners insurance.  Likewise, not all car owners carry comprehensive, much less a no deductible comprehensive.  Some simply carry the state minimum liability.  Of the 6 judges in our courts, 5 golf and I often see them on the course.  We've discussed the matter since my case and all agree that it is the golfers responsibility to keep his ball in bounds.  Failure to do so subjects you to liability.  Really no different than an accidental discharge of a firearm.  Put a hole in your neighbors siding and you will be paying for it.

But every court may have their own opinion on the matter.  I'm not familiar with case law in my state that deals with this situation thus it up to a local judges interpretation.  I've also talked to several golf courses I play and almost all of them say that damage to vehicles happens so infrequent that they either pay it or turn it into their insurance.