Vanity Capping Is Worse Than Sandbagging

[turtleback]

I believe once the hole is over, their score is what it is. You have to call them on it at the time. At the end of the round, you agree with their math or don't. If you called them out for a 7 on hole 3 and they wrote a 4, then you don't sign. At the end of the round, I don't think you can say they had a 7 on hole 3 when you didn't protest it at the time. At least that's how I play it. The rules may say something entirely different.

What you describe it correct for match play.  For a claim to be made it has to be made before play commences on the next hole.

For stroke play changes can be made in scores by the committee right up to the time the competition closes (and in unusual situations even beyond).  If you do not agree with your fellow competitor's score then you should not sign his scorecard regardless of whether the rules issue or counting discrepancy was raised at the time.  Obviously, however, it is better for the issue to be addressed when it happens.  But a failure to do so does not bar the fellow competitor or the committee from addressing and resolving the issue.

[flopster]

Just played a 2 man scramble with suspected VC

Fairways

5/14 VC

11/14 me

Greens

3/18 VC

14/18 me

I did have a good day but according to him he's only 1 shot higher index, this is what a vanity capper can do to someone in a team tournament, under normal conditions I would feel real good about my chances but because I not only have to cover my index but his erroneous one as well.

[Golfingdad]

Just played a 2 man scramble with suspected VC Fairways 5/14 VC 11/14 me Greens 3/18 VC 14/18 me I did have a good day but according to him he's only 1 shot higher index, this is what a vanity capper can do to someone in a team tournament, under normal conditions I would feel real good about my chances but because I not only have to cover my index but his erroneous one as well.

Not saying he's not a vanity capper, but your information doesn't either. Pros have bad days where they miss all the fairways or all the greens too ... Doesn't make em not pros.

[Oz Max]

In a Scramble situation, if you're already on the fairway, he might have tried to take risks and hit harder/than usual. It doesn't explain those missed greens though! I hope he was putting ok, or at least showing you the breaks! :-D

[flopster]

In a Scramble situation, if you're already on the fairway, he might have tried to take risks and hit harder/than usual. It doesn't explain those missed greens though!

I hope he was putting ok, or at least showing you the breaks!

I was hitting second all day. Pressure was on me.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Oz Max" url="/t/67600/vanity-capping-is-worse-than-sandbagging/162#post_1096302"] In a Scramble situation, if you're already on the fairway, he might have tried to take risks and hit harder/than usual. It doesn't explain those missed greens though! I hope he was putting ok, or at least showing you the breaks! :-D [/QUOTE] I was hitting second all day. Pressure was on me.

If you were going second all day, was he hitting farther but super wild?

[Dave2512]

I saw the ultimate vanity cap golfer yesterday. This guy is a ranger and member of the men's club at a local course I play often. I saw him heading to the 10th tee to get out ahead of the pack about 30 minutes before the first tee time of the day. He hit three crap shots before finally heading out to play which ever one he decided was acceptable. I've only seen this guy swing a club a few times but he's definitely not a good golfer. So I finish my round and head to the snack counter to close my tab and he's in there. He asks how I played so I tell him and he says he tore it up out there, I'm thinking yeah I saw that. He says he shot 75 and his buddy who was equally terrible shot 78. Every time I talk to this guy he says he had a great round. It's bizarre. I am going to try to find him on GHIN to see what he posts.

That was easy found him, 7.9 on GHIN. No freakin' way this guy is a single digit golfer. He has two tournament scores posted which I assume are legit if he played with anyone besides his buddies. Average tournament differential is 22.5. His last 20 go back nearly two years so he's not posting many scores. I see him at the course every time I am there in the summer he plays a lot.

[Golfingdad]

I saw the ultimate vanity cap golfer yesterday. This guy is a ranger and member of the men's club at a local course I play often. I saw him heading to the 10th tee to get out ahead of the pack about 30 minutes before the first tee time of the day. He hit three crap shots before finally heading out to play which ever one he decided was acceptable. I've only seen this guy swing a club a few times but he's definitely not a good golfer. So I finish my round and head to the snack counter to close my tab and he's in there. He asks how I played so I tell him and he says he tore it up out there, I'm thinking yeah I saw that. He says he shot 75 and his buddy who was equally terrible shot 78. Every time I talk to this guy he says he had a great round. It's bizarre. I am going to try to find him on GHIN to see what he posts.

That was easy found him, 7.9 on GHIN. No freakin' way this guy is a single digit golfer. He has two tournament scores posted which I assume are legit if he played with anyone besides his buddies. Average tournament differential is 22.5.

LOL.  That's some discrepancy.

Another thing that at least one vanity capper I know of likes to do is simply find a lame excuse to not post bad scores.  It used to be easy because he played at a club that, for some weird reason, did not allow you to post online.  So whenever he played at an away course, if the score wasn't to his liking he'd have to "hurry to get somewhere" and "forget to post."

Now that he plays at a normal course that allows online posting like the rest of us, he doesn't have that excuse.  (I think he still doesn't post all rounds though)

[Dave2512]

My guess is the scores posted are his league scores because those are all C, 9 hole league and there are two each month Apr-Oct. Since they only have to play with one other member he probably goes out with his buddy every week. He has to be a PITA for the pro because I know he doesn't play in the championship flight or first flight but a 7.9 should put him in one or the other. I know most of the champ and 1st flight guys, at least I know who they are and I've seen them on the range. Because I've considered joining I did a little scouting to see who the competition is and they are all pretty good. It's not a big league maybe 10 guys in the top two flights.

Can't believe he hasn't been called out. You'd think someone would get pissy about the money. They have skins for just about everything, stuff like most pars. If he is turning in bogus scores, he has a lot of 75-78's in there, in whatever flight he plays in he's getting skins for pars. I know I'd have a problem with it. It's one reason I don't join besides having trouble finding someone willing to break away from their little knitting circle. I've asked several members if they would play with me if I joined and they won't break ranks. I suspect there is a lot of BS going on.

I played with a stranger yesterday for half my round. He gave himself a par on damn near every hole. He was decent must have hit 7 of 9 greens but missed a bunch of short putts, burned the edge on most and picked up anything shorter than 6 feet or so. I won quite a few holes but he always claimed he had honor. I don't care about crap like that but from the 10th hole I should have had honor until I doubled 13. Really didn't want to play with him but the course was busy and only one side was open. He was part of threesome walking in front of me first time around but his buddies left. They were hacking around but he stepped it up the second time around. It was like he was playing a match with me in his head.

[Lihu]

My guess is the scores posted are his league scores because those are all C, 9 hole league and there are two each month Apr-Oct. Since they only have to play with one other member he probably goes out with his buddy every week. He has to be a PITA for the pro because I know he doesn't play in the championship flight or first flight but a 7.9 should put him in one or the other. I know most of the champ and 1st flight guys, at least I know who they are and I've seen them on the range. Because I've considered joining I did a little scouting to see who the competition is and they are all pretty good. It's not a big league maybe 10 guys in the top two flights.

Can't believe he hasn't been called out. You'd think someone would get pissy about the money. They have skins for just about everything, stuff like most pars. If he is turning in bogus scores, he has a lot of 75-78's in there, in whatever flight he plays in he's getting skins for pars. I know I'd have a problem with it. It's one reason I don't join besides having trouble finding someone willing to break away from their little knitting circle. I've asked several members if they would play with me if I joined and they won't break ranks. I suspect there is a lot of BS going on.

I played with a stranger yesterday for half my round. He gave himself a par on damn near every hole. He was decent must have hit 7 of 9 greens but missed a bunch of short putts, burned the edge on most and picked up anything shorter than 6 feet or so. I won quite a few holes but he always claimed he had honor. I don't care about crap like that but from the 10th hole I should have had honor until I doubled 13. Really didn't want to play with him but the course was busy and only one side was open. He was part of threesome walking in front of me first time around but his buddies left. They were hacking around but he stepped it up the second time around. It was like he was playing a match with me in his head.

One of the people I play with has a not so great swing, I used to think he had a great swing, and he seems to get the ball out there. He purchases really good fitted equipment, and often plays to a single digit handicap.

That being said, the clubs around here have its members be ambassadors, in this way they can watch all the golfers playing their rounds and observe their members carefully. It seems like a reasonable way to keep people honest. The money pots are pretty big at the club championships, guessing in the thousands to be made. There are also a lot of good golfers who carry a double digit handicap, and they stay alert for them.

The vanity cappers normally have no chance of winning any money. If you are partnered with one, just ask if you can play a round with them prior to the event. Then you can lodge a complaint and get a new partner. Seems pretty simple enough.

In the context of the OP, and these last few posts like from @flopster I would say that vanity capping can be worse especially in these cases where they also cheat.

[flopster]

If you were going second all day, was he hitting farther but super wild?

The rare times he would make good contact sure it went further but what good does that do? And yes extremely wild basically cannot maintain balance even after practice swings.

[Dave2512]

I didn't consider the cheating of a vanity handicap to be harmful golfer until I looked up that guy's scores. He is definitely winning skins in his flight from the bogus scores. All the 75-78 C scores that guy has posted means he's turning in sub 40 9 hole scores participating in flights where the majority of the golfers can't break 90. I am going to ask the pro about it next time I catch him alone. Anyone that's seen this guy swing or play would know he can't break 80. It's not just an awkward swing this guy is obviously not very good and he's a liar. He told me he shot 4 over. He was 4 over before he got off the first tee.

Can't believe he'd risk getting caught. This guy lives on the course and is an every day regular as well as a ranger. He hangs in there even when he isn't golfing. If they bust him he will have a tough time, small town, everyone knows everyone and all that.

[Golfingdad]

I didn't consider the cheating of a vanity handicap to be harmful golfer until I looked up that guy's scores. He is definitely winning skins in his flight from the bogus scores. All the 75-78 C scores that guy has posted means he's turning in sub 40 9 hole scores participating in flights where the majority of the golfers can't break 90. I am going to ask the pro about it next time I catch him alone. Anyone that's seen this guy swing or play would know he can't break 80. It's not just an awkward swing this guy is obviously not very good and he's a liar. He told me he shot 4 over. He was 4 over before he got off the first tee.

Can't believe he'd risk getting caught. This guy lives on the course and is an every day regular as well as a ranger. He hangs in there even when he isn't golfing. If they bust him he will have a tough time, small town, everyone knows everyone and all that.

Those are actually two different things.  The vanity-capper is just somebody who turns in scores that he didn't actually shoot, simply for the sake of vanity.

The guy who does it in tournaments is just a plain old cheater.  Sure, if his tournament scores get posted to his handicap, then he's consequently also obtaining a vanity handicap, but he's not really a true vanity-capper.  He's just a cheater.

A true vanity-capper would shoot 95 in the league, come in last place, and then either forget to post his score, or post a 83 when nobody is looking.

[Dave2512]

Oh yeah definitely just plain old cheating, like I said never really thought about it until I looked him up. After thinking about it he may not even know what his handicap is. But really surprised his bogus scores/handicap goes unnoticed or ignored by so many people being he's winning money he doesn't deserve. Maybe they don't know how to handle it. In that league the head pro actually collects cards and inputs each members scores. Those are the only scores this guy has posted so he's not really manipulating his scores as much as turning in bogus league cards. His tournament scores are twenty strokes higher than his weekly league scores. You'd think the red flags would be easy to see.

I've seen this guy playing in foursomes passing him on the course. Hard to believe at least one league member wouldn't think "no way this guy is shooting 75 ever" if they happened to play with him. The same 80 or so regulars play this course several times a week. At some point someone besides his league partner should witness what he is truly capable of. It only took two mulligans, another crap drive and hearing him say I shot 75 for me to figure it out. He mentioned shooting some low scores before if we were shooting the shit on the first tee when he's the starter but I had no idea if it was real or make believe.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/67600/vanity-capping-is-worse-than-sandbagging/162#post_1096436"] If you were going second all day, was he hitting farther but super wild?[/QUOTE] The rare times he would make good contact sure it went further but what good does that do? And yes extremely wild basically cannot maintain balance even after practice swings.

He's clearly not a single digit. :-D

[flopster]

He's clearly not a single digit. :-D

More like the 16 to 18 range

[Lihu]

[quote name="Lihu" url="/t/67600/vanity-capping-is-worse-than-sandbagging/150#post_1096546"] He's clearly not a single digit. :-D

More like the 16 to 18 range[/quote] 10 strokes is huge! Bad swing and all how did he get away with that???

[phan52]

Those are actually two different things.  The vanity-capper is just somebody who turns in scores that he didn't actually shoot, simply for the sake of vanity.

The guy who does it in tournaments is just a plain old cheater.  Sure, if his tournament scores get posted to his handicap, then he's consequently also obtaining a vanity handicap, but he's not really a true vanity-capper.  He's just a cheater.

A true vanity-capper would shoot 95 in the league, come in last place, and then either forget to post his score, or post a 83 when nobody is looking.

We have a few, but our classic vanity-capper had been a pretty decent single digit in his younger days, and he just couldn't handle it when his game started to deteriorate with age. He had been a decent 5-7 handicapper in is younger years, but his game had become more of a 12-13 by this time. He would play a lot with his wife and post in the mid-70's. When he played in casual money matches he would get killed, pay up, and grab the scorecard so he could post the scores, usually lopping multiple shots off his own score. He was totally non-competitive in handicap tournaments and he never could qualify for flight matches because he was out of is league due to his handicap. His tournament scores were embarrassing.

I never had a problem taking his money.