"Hey! While we're young!" - USGA Pace of Play

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

Very few of our slow players are going to recognize themselves in the USGA ads.  Virtually all slow pokes are unaware of their disability.  The USGA is flushing a lot of money down the drain on this campaign.

I would like to see the USGA make some grants to busy public courses to allow experiments in speeding up play.  Subsidize all the methods (knowledgeable starters, true 10 minute splits, empowered rangers, "tee it forward", pace clocks, short rough, directional signs, etc...).  Come up with a proven formula to create the proper field to grow a 4 hour or less round.

Prove to public courses that with the right techinques, they can create 4 hours rounds AND make more money.

The ad campaign may have ONE effect that you didn't consider, tho.  It's going to encourage fellow players to speak up a little more and not be so worried about offending someone with a "While we're young" ribbing.  Peer pressure may help, and may be the only thing if courses don't have the personnel (or interest) to enforce time limits.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

Very few of our slow players are going to recognize themselves in the USGA ads.  Virtually all slow pokes are unaware of their disability.  The USGA is flushing a lot of money down the drain on this campaign.

They don't have to. The people behind them, the people in the pro shop, etc. simply need to recognize themselves. This isn't a "recognize that you're slow" program, it's a "tell other people when they're slow" program.

Originally Posted by bkuehn1952

I would like to see the USGA make some grants to busy public courses to allow experiments in speeding up play.

Did you read the PDF Stretch posted a few pages back?

They've done this (I think the PGA did it, but still).

[colin007]

Regarding tour players playing slow, I've said this before on this site and I'll throw it out there again - How awesome would it be to see a group ask to play through on a tour event? Like Snedeker and Fowler come up behind Ben Crane and Keegan Bradley and ask "Do you guys mind if we play through?" That would get people's attention...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by colin007

Regarding tour players playing slow, I've said this before on this site and I'll throw it out there again -

How awesome would it be to see a group ask to play through on a tour event? Like Snedeker and Fowler come up behind Ben Crane and Keegan Bradley and ask "Do you guys mind if we play through?" That would get people's attention...

I doubt that it's possible except in very particular circumstances.  I'm guessing that they have some sort of Tour policy about order of groups on the course.

In my men's club tournaments, we were not allowed to change the order of groups on the course, meaning that we were not allowed to pass a slow group.  It's an unfortunate situation which once was partly the cause of my group being assessed a slow play penalty.  If I hadn't moved away, I'd have run for board of directors again (I was on the board for 4 years about a decade ago) just to lobby for a change in our club pace of play policy, but that happened the last season I was able to play with them.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I doubt that it's possible except in very particular circumstances.  I'm guessing that they have some sort of Tour policy about order of groups on the course.

It's happened, though. I know that.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I doubt that it's possible except in very particular circumstances.  I'm guessing that they have some sort of Tour policy about order of groups on the course.

It's happened, though. I know that.

Yeah.  I seem to recall it happening when a group had a particularly long ruling or some such.  It's very rare though, even though following groups start to stack up behind a slow group.  They don't allow playing through unless the delay is extreme.

[colin007]

Yeah.  I seem to recall it happening when a group had a particularly long ruling or some such.  It's very rare though, even though following groups start to stack up behind a slow group.  They don't allow playing through unless the delay is extreme.

So it's kind of a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of thing with the USGA... PS, I know the PGA and the USGA aren't one and the same, but just sayin'...

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by colin007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Yeah.  I seem to recall it happening when a group had a particularly long ruling or some such.  It's very rare though, even though following groups start to stack up behind a slow group.  They don't allow playing through unless the delay is extreme.

So it's kind of a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of thing with the USGA... PS, I know the PGA and the USGA aren't one and the same, but just sayin'...

In my experience, it's not uncommon to have to maintain the order of play in a competition, but it certainly isn't a rules issue.  It's a common policy and I think that it's so that one group can't decide to play at their own pace and just wave other groups through.  A slow foursome trying to wave multiple other foursomes through just slows the pace down even more.  It makes more sense to have a well managed pace of play policy to which every group is held.  That usually means requiring each group to keep its proper place on the course.

It's different when you are talking about casual play.  Then you have too many different size groups, with widely varying skill levels, and a course which may have gaps in the tee sheet which creates spacing out on the course that allows for some shuffling in the flow of players.  It still shouldn't be a license to a slow group to play at a 5 hour pace.

There's no double standard, just a difference in way the flow of players works in quite different circumstances.

[bplewis24]

I know in most club/tournament play out here, letting other groups play through is not an option.  I'm sure it might happen in a unique circumstance, but they don't allow it for typical slow play reasons.

[boogielicious]

Yesterday, one of my favorite courses, Hickory Hill in Methuen, MA, did the right thing regarding slow play.  On the front nine, we were getting slowed down by an outing group two groups in front of us. On hole 5, the rangers identified the slow group, which was really frustrating the guys in front of us.  They politely asked them to pick up the pace.  By hole 8, things were moving fast.  First nine was ~2:20-2:30, and back nine was 1:45.

[Shaggie13]

Paula Creamer, "while we're young."  Watching her last couple of days, she could really heed her own advice.

[Jodastra]

Played 18 this morn... was on at 7:30 and off at 10:30. I was allowed to play though , by a threesome on #6 which was great. I caught up with 2 walkers on 12. But the next group was still 3 behind, I slowed down and by 18 the group behind was in the 17th fairway when I teed off. We had to let a skunk play through the 17th and 18th fairways, but he was speedy and only held us up for around 3 minutes. To me that's a good pace of play for a practice round. Back at the clubhouse there was a line 6 carts deep at the first tee...pays to get out early.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Jodastra

Back at the clubhouse there was a line 6 carts deep at the first tee...pays to get out early.

I don't think I'll ever understand how that happens.  Don't they use a tee sheet?  Reservation system?  I've never played a course without one.  And they stick to the sheet.  You go when you're up or you don't go.

My home course has on rare occasions gotten one tee time off because of some idiots dogging it up the first fairway, but when that happens the starter has the ranger or someone from the pro shot go out immediately and read the riot act to them.  They will have the ranger hounding them all the way around the front 9 if they don't get with the program.  We always paged with a 10 minute call, then a one minute call.  If they weren't on the tee, they got one more chance.  I made the announcement over the PA system many times in the 5 years I was a starter there:  "Will the Jones foursome please report to the first tee.  You have 2 minutes to tee off or your time will be cancelled!"  If I had walk-on players waiting and a group hadn't checked in with the starter at least 5 minutes before their tee time, I cancelled the reservation and sent out the waiting players.  If the original group showed up after that, they went on the waiting list if they still wanted to play.

The tee sheet was the Bible - you went off on time or not at all.  We had a zero tolerance policy for late players.  (and this was a public muni)

[Slice of Life]

Went today...played with a buddy of mine, and we both played like absolute garbage. Looking for balls all over, hitting triple bogeys like it was our job, waiting on the twosome in front of us, bullshitting, practicing putting, stopped at the clubhouse for food at the turn....

Starting time: 12:30

Ending time: 3:35

In short, how the living F does it take 5+ hours to golf

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I don't think I'll ever understand how that happens.  Don't they use a tee sheet?  Reservation system?  I've never played a course without one.  And they stick to the sheet.  You go when you're up or you don't go.

The tee sheet was the Bible - you went off on time or not at all.  We had a zero tolerance policy for late players.  (and this was a public muni)

Non-enforcement of the tee sheet is probably one of the biggest problems.  The course has a dilemma: either cancel the group if they aren't ready (and refund their money/lose the cash) or take their money, shuffle the tee sheet around and piss folks off and slow up the course for everybody else.   Most courses probably go the latter route.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Non-enforcement of the tee sheet is probably one of the biggest problems.  The course has a dilemma: either cancel the group if they aren't ready (and refund their money/lose the cash) or take their money, shuffle the tee sheet around and piss folks off and slow up the course for everybody else.   Most courses probably go the latter route.

I guess strict enforcement of a tee sheet works out OK. The courses that are so busy that they have to be strict probably can afford to lose a customer or two by turning them away for being late, and the courses that don't have enough customers can afford to be more flexible about strict tee times because there are empty tee time slots.

Most of the courses around here are hanging on by a thread finacially and the courses are seldom full. A group that gets turned away because someone is a few minutes late likely wouldn't be back. If they are regulars (and especially if they have lots of friends that are regulars) and they all take their games elsewhere it's a big deal. A potential pitfall to running any business in a small town is if you do something unpopular you may lose everybody.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by MS256

Quote:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Non-enforcement of the tee sheet is probably one of the biggest problems.  The course has a dilemma: either cancel the group if they aren't ready (and refund their money/lose the cash) or take their money, shuffle the tee sheet around and piss folks off and slow up the course for everybody else.   Most courses probably go the latter route.

I guess strict enforcement of a tee sheet works out OK. The courses that are so busy that they have to be strict probably can afford to lose a customer or two by turning them away for being late, and the courses that don't have enough customers can afford to be more flexible about strict tee times because there are empty tee time slots.

Most of the courses around here are hanging on by a thread finacially and the courses are seldom full. A group that gets turned away because someone is a few minutes late likely wouldn't be back. If they are regulars (and especially if they have lots of friends that are regulars) and they all take their games elsewhere it's a big deal. A potential pitfall to running any business in a small town is if you do something unpopular you may lose everybody.

The point being that apparently your course isn't that busy.  My home complex is the busiest facility in Denver, with an 18 hole course (par 72) and two 9 hole courses (par 27 and par 31).  Being a muni operated by the Foothills Recreation District, it serves as a cash cow for many of the other recreational services offered by the district.  Even on a slow year, they will return as much as a 3/4 million dollar profit back into the district coffers.  All 3 courses are run on a reservations system, since that's the only possible way to keep things straight with so many players passing through.

The first tee for the Executive 9 is right next to the first tee for the regulation course (they share a common cart path and the first greens on each course are only about 150 feet apart), and we have had players who paid for the 9 hole course try and slip on to the big course at the second hole.  As far as I know none has ever actually been successful in getting more than halfway up the second fairway before getting caught, but that doesn't seem to stop them trying.

We work hard to keep control of the flow of players, but still seem to sometimes end up with rounds pushing 4:45 to 5 hours by midday on busy weekends.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Being a muni operated by the Foothills Recreation District, it serves as a cash cow for many of the other recreational services offered by the district.

Good to hear that there are still cash cows for golf.

If there ever were any cash cows around here they were ground up for hamburger after the Free Trade Agreement and all of the sock mills closed.

I saw in the paper a couple of months ago that the city course had already lost $100,000 this year and they were thinking about shutting it down. I guess the bright side is that I work at a different course so maybe we can pick up some of their players.