Official 2013 British Open at Muirfield Discussion Thread

[Motley01]

I believe Westwood makes his home now in the US, and plays the PGA Tour full time. Wonder why?

[Lash]

Really? Westwood has double the international wins Garcia has. The PGATour isn't the only tour, you know. Westwood plays the Majors, WGCs and a half dozen select events on the PGA Tour only. Get some international perspective. :no:

Are you sure this is true? I may have been looking at it wrong, but that world golf ranking link tha was posted earlier made it look like he mostly played US events recently.

[jamo]

No one takes the world golf rankings seriously. At no point in time was Lee Westwood or Luke Donald the number one player in the world, but they were ranked that way.

All four majors seem to take the OWGR pretty seriously. [quote name="Motley01" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/324#post_871756"]I believe Westwood makes his home now in the US, and plays the PGA Tour full time. Wonder why? [/quote] (A) Weather. (Seriously, don't underestimate that.) Lower tax burden as well, generally speaking. (B) The PGA Tour is the premier tour, but it's not the only tour. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/270#post_871533"]He is a better winner than Lee Westwood. Not even arguable. Tell me, what is Lee Westwood's record in Majors? The exact same as Woody Austin. 4 wins and no majors beats 2 wins and no majors. [/quote] Uhhh, how 'bout we argue? What's Lee's record in majors? Oh-for. Same as Woody, sure. But Woody never once made the cut at The Masters. He's got just one top 10 in one major ever. Sure, winning is important, but a T10 >>>>>>> missing the cut. And if we're playing that game, Woody won the 1995 Buick Open, 2003 MCI Heritage (Harbour Town), 2004 Buick Championship (now the Travelers), and the 2013 Sanderson Farms Championship (an opposite-field event). Real murders' row in those fields. Like the '27 Yankees of golf. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/270#post_871549"]Dont give me the European wins. What do you do when you play with big boys? Not some random guys from tiny countries who no one has ever seen before. "Westwood has played in more majors in the last 5 years than Austins entire career" Doesnt that make it worse? That he has had that many more times to convert and has that much more talent yet still cant come through [/quote] Right, your ignorance of European geography should project poorly on Lee. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/270#post_871566"]never said Austin is a better player, just a better winner. Lee obviously has more talent than him, which makes it that much worse that Austin has double his wins [/quote] It's not ****ing double his wins. Cut the Americentric bullshit and look at the rest of the world. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/288#post_871577"]Smh thats like counting web.com tour victories. European tour wins are out of the discussion. [/quote] USA! USA! USA! [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/234#post_871312"]Death, taxes and Lee Westwood falling apart on Sunday. Vintage Lee! When are the announcers/analysts going to stop acting like this guy is any good? He has 2 pga tour wins. The St. Jude Classic (who cares) and some tournament I have never even heard of and has even less stature than the St. Jude. But somehow he is one of the best in the game? smh [/quote] More ignorance. Wonderful. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/234#post_871439"]Just so over the pathetic amount of hype and praise that he gets for accomplishing nothing. By the way they talk about him you would think he would have like 20 non major pga tour victories. He has not won anything of relevance and he is 40. Sunday morning I would have bet my life on him and Hunter Mahan both having absolutely zero impact on the outcome of the tournament. rant over. [/quote] Who is heaping all of this praise on Westwood? He's been murdered in the press after the latest meltdown. All he ever gets asked about in pressers is about his near-misses in majors. The first column I wrote for TST was when Lee reached the top ranking, predicting he wouldn't last long. He gets not special treatment from the press. [quote name="kw purp" url="/t/68416/official-2013-british-open-at-muirfield-discussion-thread/252#post_871519"]This is exactly what I am talking about. How could he possibly be a top 10 player? A top 10 player wins golf tournaments. Lee Westwood does not win golf tournaments. He won the St. Jude classic THREE YEARS AGO. And the Freeport McDermott Classic (wtf is that) FIFTEEN YEARS AGO. Those are his only PGA tour wins. Thats it. And your telling me he is top 10? The guy who won the Sanderson Farms tournament the past weekend is more a winner than lee in the last 3 years. [/quote] Because the world rankings account for high finishes, as they should, and Westwood has a penchant for high finishes. The math's not particularly strenuous.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Phil Mickelson is an elite player.

He's 43.

He just won The Open.

My Phil Mickelson/Lee Westwood haiku:

Phil won five of them.

While Lee has squandered the chance.

Time passes him by.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Spyder

I think the "last chance" portion of your statement is out of line, especially considering he's been in contention so many times. Being in a major is technically a chance. You're saying he'll never be in another major, if you take that sentiment literally, or at the least... you're saying he will never be in the conversation on the final day again. Statistics are against you if you go off of his past performance.

I think he will be in contention again and he will have another opportunity to clinch a major victory. I am not saying that he will definitely win a major, but I can't rule him out simply based on how many times he's been there. Time is against him and all of us in life, but he still has what it takes to pull it off before he is ruled out as a possibility and stranded on Ben Crane island.

I wasn't taking it literally. He'll be in many more majors. Probably have some top 5s. All of us here sports fans are speculating, but considering the oldest major winner ever was Jack Nicklaus at 46, Lee, a European player who led the British Open (God, I hate when they just call it "The Open") by a few strokes going into Sunday and lost is no longer on my betting sheet for winning a major. If he moved to Florida 8 years ago, he'd probably have one by now.

[mmoan2]

Originally Posted by Lash

Are you sure this is true? I may have been looking at it wrong, but that world golf ranking link tha was posted earlier made it look like he mostly played US events recently.

If you looked at 2010 and before that, you'd see much less US tournaments on his card. He's definitely upped his PGA Tour presence recently. Glad to see it, too. I like Lee, I just think he's one of those guys who won;t break through in the big four. Can't say why exactly.

[golfingnooob]

I don't believe it. I put a bet on Westwood to win it on day 2, and on sunday when he was 3 (I don't know what you call it, 3 shots?) ahead of second place, I thought it was a guarantee for sure :(

[Jakester23]

Really? Westwood has double the international wins Garcia has. The PGATour isn't the only tour, you know. Westwood plays the Majors, WGCs and a half dozen select events on the PGA Tour only. Get some international perspective. :no:

I'm not making the argument that Sergio is better I'm just saying he's had good finishes in majors and has had some nice wins. Also his window to win a major is probably longer considering he's 33 or so. I like Westwood way more than Sergio and hope Lee gets one before he retires. But for some guys it just isn't ment to be.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Phil Mickelson is an elite player.

He's 43.

He just won The Open.

Yes. His fifth major.

Westwood is 40 & hasn't won one yet.

That creaking sound you're hearing is Westwood's window of opportunity slowly closing.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

If you looked at 2010 and before that, you'd see much less US tournaments on his card. He's definitely upped his PGA Tour presence recently. Glad to see it, too. I like Lee, I just think he's one of those guys who won;t break through in the big four. Can't say why exactly.

Interestingly, the shift from mostly Euro events to mostly US events also coincides with a pretty big drop in world ranking for Westwood. Although he has gone back up recently. May have just been a matter of adjusting to the differences.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Phil Mickelson is an elite player.

He's 43.

He just won The Open.

Yes. His fifth major.

Westwood is 40 & hasn't won one yet.

That creaking sound you're hearing is Westwood's window of opportunity slowly closing.

I think his point was that Westwood still has time. A 40+ year old can still be competitive in majors. He's still got a few years left to win one.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by mmoan2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spyder

I think the "last chance" portion of your statement is out of line, especially considering he's been in contention so many times. Being in a major is technically a chance. You're saying he'll never be in another major, if you take that sentiment literally, or at the least... you're saying he will never be in the conversation on the final day again. Statistics are against you if you go off of his past performance.

I think he will be in contention again and he will have another opportunity to clinch a major victory. I am not saying that he will definitely win a major, but I can't rule him out simply based on how many times he's been there. Time is against him and all of us in life, but he still has what it takes to pull it off before he is ruled out as a possibility and stranded on Ben Crane island.

I wasn't taking it literally. He'll be in many more majors. Probably have some top 5s. All of us here sports fans are speculating, but considering the oldest major winner ever was Jack Nicklaus at 46, Lee, a European player who led the British Open (God, I hate when they just call it "The Open") by a few strokes going into Sunday and lost is no longer on my betting sheet for winning a major. If he moved to Florida 8 years ago, he'd probably have one by now.

Sorry, but I have to inform you that it's called the Open Championship, and it is THE Open because it was first by a long shot.  First played in 1860 before there was even a golf course in the US, it predates the US Open by 35 years.  It still is the preeminent major championship in the eyes of many.  Understand also that Britain is steeped in history and tradition, and it only stands to reason that those qualities would be an integral part of the game which began there.  I can be a homer and root for Americans while still not feeling diminished by recognizing THE Open for what it is - one of the truly great traditions of our game.

It's no more incorrect than for MLB to call their championship the World Series and declare the winner the world champion.  It is like that because that tradition began in the US.  Well the tradition of an open championship in golf began in Scotland, so they retain the right to the name.

[Mr. Desmond]

Sorry, but I have to inform you that it's called the Open Championship, and it is THE Open because it was first by a long shot.  First played in 1860 before there was even a golf course in the US, it predates the US Open by 35 years.  It still is the preeminent major championship in the eyes of many.  Understand also that Britain is steeped in history and tradition, and it only stands to reason that those qualities would be an integral part of the game which began there.  I can be a homer and root for Americans while still not feeling diminished by recognizing THE Open for what it is - one of the truly great traditions of our game.   It's no more incorrect than for MLB to call their championship the World Series and declare the winner the world champion.  It is like that because that tradition began in the US.  Well the tradition of an open championship in golf began in Scotland, so they retain the right to the name.

Yeah!

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I think his point was that Westwood still has time. A 40+ year old can still be competitive in majors. He's still got a few years left to win one.

Sure. One. Maybe.

My point is, eventually it gets into your head that maybe you're just not destined to win. Hell, Sergio pretty much publicly conceded that last year in a press conference.

I'm not saying Westwood won't win one, but given how awesome he's supposed to be...if it hasn't happened yet the odds of it happening in the future aren't great. See Colin Montgomerie.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I think his point was that Westwood still has time. A 40+ year old can still be competitive in majors. He's still got a few years left to win one.

Sure. One. Maybe.

My point is, eventually it gets into your head that maybe you're just not destined to win. Hell, Sergio pretty much publicly conceded that last year in a press conference.

I'm not saying Westwood won't win one, but given how awesome he's supposed to be...if it hasn't happened yet the odds of it happening in the future aren't great. See Colin Montgomerie.

Nope, odds aren't great. In fact, I wouldn't bet on him. But I think the talk that he will never have another chance to win one is a bit much. He'll have more chances, and he can still be competitive for several more years. Hell, Watson almost won the Open at 59.

And before anyone goes down that road, no Westwood is not comparable to Watson. Just making the point that if Watson can almost win at 59, Westwood can be competitive (and maybe win one) for several more years.

[Chilli Dipper]

Let's not act like Lee Westwood is washed up all of a sudden, or even try to make an argument that moving to the States full-time has exposed him for the fraud he is. He has six top-ten finishes on the PGA Tour thus far in 2013. He's 12th in scoring average, 25th in total driving, 26th in sand saves; he's even 12th in scrambling, in spite of his reputation for a horrible short game. His main problem right now is that he ranks 157th in strokes gained - putting. You have to have a good putting week to win any PGA Tour event, let alone a major, and Lee hasn't put that part of his game together yet this year.

While we're at it, it's not as if the Freeport-McDermott and St. Jude Classics were the only two-bit tournaments who would let Lee Westwood into the field. They were held the week before the Masters and US Open, respectively, and Lee was playing to get ready for those two majors. Look at the great European players and their PGA Tour histories. Seve Ballesteros won twice at Westchester when it was held the week before the US Open; Sandy Lyle won twice in Greensboro when that tournament was the week before the Masters; Ian Woosnam's only American non-major win happened in New Orleans just a couple of weeks before he won the Masters in 1991; Bernhard Langer's only regular tour win happened at the Heritage the week after his 1985 Masters victory, and Nick Faldo's first American win was at Hilton Head the year before. Lee Westwood's American victories in America have come in the way most Europeans' have on the schedule as a consequence of their limited American appearances on the PGA Tour.

[zipazoid]

Well, I won't answer for anyone but myself, but I never implied he is washed up. Obviously he is very talented. But I think you would have to agree that he has under-performed relative to that talent. And he has a history of fading in majors.

And there's nothing unusual about that. Tom Purtzer had a great swing. Orville Moody was an excellent ball-striker. Tom Weiskopf should have won more than one major. At this point, that's the group Westwood is in, imo.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Well, I won't answer for anyone but myself, but I never implied he is washed up. Obviously he is very talented. But I think you would have to agree that he has under-performed relative to that talent. And he has a history of fading in majors.

And there's nothing unusual about that. Tom Purtzer had a great swing. Orville Moody was an excellent ball-striker. Tom Weiskopf should have won more than one major. At this point, that's the group Westwood is in, imo.

I don't disagree.