Do you drive 250+ yards and have a 20+ handicap?

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

I don't have any hybrids or fw woods in my bag right now. I never liked hybrids really. I don't really have trouble with hitting my 4i normally, it's just when I'm trying to be "safe" rofl. I think I need to get over my dislike of the look of hybrids/rescues because it seems they are really a good option. I only have 12 clubs in the bag right now and I've been evaluating what to get.

I have a Cleveland Halo 2i hybrid, and it's by far my favorite club (Besides my 60). I've had it for years now, and use it for a ton of things, low punch shots, and pretty much anything from 200-240 yards.

[res0n0xg]

Update. shot 84 yesterday, course 71.7/131.... Had 3 drives over 300, one around 306, 320, 310. It was a good day with the driver yesterday, only one shot OB, first hole, only lost ball, all other tee shots (4i, 5w) were all fairway or first cut shots. Wedge play was pretty bad, only a few GIR, one GUR, but mostly just scrambled OK to save pars or bogey, two doubles, no triples, one birdie are the outliers. This is a fairly typical round for me. Mid 80's is a pretty good score from a harder course as well, the greens at this course are incredibly firm.

[jayisu]

I have a similar issue.  My most recent round I drove the ball better than ever, straight, where I was aiming about 250-270.  My ordinary drive is probably 240, but I am using new driver for me and hit fits me and I have gained distance and accuracy.  Then, being beitween 70 and 120 out, I completely fell apart.  I am a 12 and getting close to or on the green in two even with an off center drive is fairly easy.  It all came down to chipping and putting.  On this day, I couldn't hit a green from 70 which is lousy and frustrating and compounded throughout the round.

But, that said, I believe that chipping and long putts are the problem.  Even the pros spray a drive and mishit an approach, but their ability to chip and make putts from 15 feet in sets them apart.  For me, my inability to take a 10-30 yard chip and put it within 15 feet is crushing mentally and adds 5-10 strokes to my score.  Also, say I hit the green, but have 30-50 feet to deal with, hitting a good lag to within 6 feet is rare.  Often I am short, long, or just don't read the break right over the distance of the putt.  I just have to be better getting closer to the hole.  Shorter putts and good chips breed confidence and create good memories to rely on.

Also, if you note it, when you are in a chipping situation, there are more variables to your shot selection and swing type than anywhere else on the course.  You are trying to repeat one swing with a putter, driver, and iron.  When chipping you can bump and run with different clubs, hit a soft chip, use a putting swing, have to hit down in the rough, hit from the sand, a flop shot, choose what degree wedge to hit, control backswing for distance, have a short side pin, a lot of green to work with, and then you have to make solid contact.  I often make the wrong decision for the situation I am in and it adds a stroke or two per hole.

I have practiced on chip and run and soft flip (not flop) shots and improved.  Recently I started practicing using a putting stroke with a hybrid to run it up or out of the rough because it moves through the rough better and if I can control the distance then I may be able to closer on a hole without a big lip to deal with.  I don't think I will improve my handicap much until I am able to execute 5 or 6 different shots around the green with a decent degree of proficiency.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Nice one!

Yeah, sometimes I'm reminded how far 275-290 is when I bomb one what feels 10-15 yards further than anything else for the day, and it's still "only" around 285-ish.

Yup ... I've now come to terms with the fact that with my current swing, the absolute "mashiest" drive I can hit WITHOUT slope or wind help is 285 or so also.

But on the bright side ... the reason I say "with my current swing" is because I have been on Trackman and learned that I tend to have a pretty negative angle of attack (-2 to -4 IIRC) with the driver.  So there is hope that I could gain more yards, it's just not remotely a priority right now.  Keeping it in play for an entire round, and keeping the irons sharp will lead to good scores for me. :)

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by res0n0xg

Update. shot 84 yesterday, course 71.7/131.... Had 3 drives over 300, one around 306, 320, 310. It was a good day with the driver yesterday, only one shot OB, first hole, only lost ball, all other tee shots (4i, 5w) were all fairway or first cut shots. Wedge play was pretty bad, only a few GIR, one GUR, but mostly just scrambled OK to save pars or bogey, two doubles, no triples, one birdie are the outliers. This is a fairly typical round for me. Mid 80's is a pretty good score from a harder course as well, the greens at this course are incredibly firm.

That's probably a 10-11 differential, right?  A good illustration that if you average those distances, your score will reflect it to some extent.  The key word there being "average" and the key phrase being "to some extent."

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yup ... I've now come to terms with the fact that with my current swing, the absolute "mashiest" drive I can hit WITHOUT slope or wind help is 285 or so also.

But on the bright side ... the reason I say "with my current swing" is because I have been on Trackman and learned that I tend to have a pretty negative angle of attack (-2 to -4 IIRC) with the driver.  So there is hope that I could gain more yards, it's just not remotely a priority right now.  Keeping it in play for an entire round, and keeping the irons sharp will lead to good scores for me. :)

Yeah, I noticed that.  That's why every once in a while you got a bit snap-hooky with your drives, if I remember correctly.  I'd like to get on trackman soon now that my swing is more consistent and see what my measurables are.

[1484]

I'm with all of the guys who have said some variation of "accuracy is better than length for the beginner to intermediate player."  I have been playing regularly for about a year and a half.  Last year's goal was to break 100.  This year's goal to break 90.  I am not an especially big hitter (a "crushed" drive might be 250, and I'm pretty sure I've never carried one more than 260 even at altitude).  However, a month ago I stopped hitting driver altogether and have played only 3 wood off the tee.  Since making that move, I've been about 5-7 strokes better over the last 8 rounds or than when I was hitting the driver.  So, at least for me, getting the 3 wood in the middle of the fairway and giving up 20-25 yards has been well worth it in terms of improving scoring.

I can see a future where the length will matter more but for my level of consistency I get way more bang for my buck from starting off on the fairway than the extra distance.

Course this all begs the question of why I can't make the same f__king swing with the driver as I make with the 3W, but that's for another thread...

[Billmc]

So I am not long off the tee usually I am 240 to 250, pretty straight,most of the time. My second shot I am usual 140 to 160 out on par 4's. I hit the greens about 40%, chipping is ok to pretty good and I have accepted the fact I am a Par Bogey golfer,par's are my birdie's LOL. My big issue Is reading greens, putts feel good but I miss read the break and or the speed almost all the time. I avg just over 2 putts a hole,not horriable but i could shave that down if i could read a green.

[saturday]

Today I consistently hit every fairway. Nice smooth and easy swing, beautiful results. One of my buddies crushes his drives. He probably hit 30% of his drives on the fairway and the rest in the woods. My drives were 220-260 whereas his when he did it fairways were roughly 250-300. If I had the choice if take all my shots over his.

[Lihu]

So I am not long off the tee usually I am 240 to 250, pretty straight,most of the time. My second shot I am usual 140 to 160 out on par 4's. I hit the greens about 40%, chipping is ok to pretty good and I have accepted the fact I am a Par Bogey golfer,par's are my birdie's LOL. My big issue Is reading greens, putts feel good but I miss read the break and or the speed almost all the time. I avg just over 2 putts a hole,not horriable but i could shave that down if i could read a green.

I have heard that it helps to be deadly accurate from 150 yards. It might help you. For me, I don't even have a consistent 150 yard club yet.

[Royster1984]

I think like a few people have said the main concern for high handicappers is to try and remove inconsistancy from your driving. Hitting fairways more often is alot more important than driving it that little bit further.

I am a high handicapper aswell playing off around 24 handicap, I can drive anything from 230-280 depending on wind and such. A tip I have found helpful is dont feel like you have to use the Driver for all par 4's, If your on a short/medium length par 4 hitting a 3/5 wood or even a low iron is sometimes the better option thinking about your next shot.

[Motown88]

I am a high handicapper aswell playing off around 24 handicap, I can drive anything from 230-280 depending on wind and such. A tip I have found helpful is dont feel like you have to use the Driver for all par 4's, If your on a short/medium length par 4 hitting a 3/5 wood or even a low iron is sometimes the better option thinking about your next shot.

Why is driving range 230-280 yards? That's a huge window and sounds like a swing issue. A poor shot for me may travel 10-15 yards shorter then my typical drive. Hitting nearly 50 yards shorter seems to be a bigger issue. I see that you're playing at a high handicap so this does make a little sense. As I believe I said earlier in this thread and as many others have said work on your short game. If you experiencing that much variability on your long shots a more consistent short game can drasitically improve your overall scores and thus lower your handicap

[Jeremie Boop]

After my first ever lesson I learned:

My grip is good

I placed the ball to far back on irons and too far forward on driver.

My swing was to far in to out.

My balance was too far towards the toe.

I stood too close to the ball.

My alignment was super bad.

My tempo was inconsistent.

My timing is inconsistent.

ROFL, not much to work on right?

I think that fixing my tempo will fix my timing mostly so that's a 2 for 1 fix. Was given a music file with tempo to match for this.

Balance is more of an easy fix.

Alignment is easy by using clubs to get used to lining up right.

Ball alignment and distance from the ball will be something I struggle with I think.

[rkim291968]

If you are hitting 240 - 250 yard drives (so am I) and have 20+ handicap, I doubt it if you are hitting most of your second shots from a good fairway lie.  And I suspect you are losing strokes even before you get to your second shot.   I envy you if you are hitting 240 drives and consistently put your ball in fairway.   You have a solid foundation to bring your handicap down to 10, IMO.

When I have a bad round (low 90), it usually starts with inaccurate drives (short, in rough/hazard) which leads to long/awkward 2nd shots which then put big pressure on my short game.    This leads to a few holes with big numbers - doubles & triples - which ruins my round.

[Billmc]

Originally Posted by Lihu

I have heard that it helps to be deadly accurate from 150 yards. It might help you.

For me, I don't even have a consistent 150 yard club yet.

Ya that's true,,very true. I my self like to look at it as,  if not on the green, get on the fringe or just off(with in 5 to 10yards). There, i am more like 80% on. Chip It close 1 put for par or bogey and I am walking away pretty happy. My Issue is actually two fold,like I said getting to read the green,i always say i should of been a gardener to be a good putter. My eyes always fail me. Then, control over the ball,Driver,irons putter does not matter. I get over the ball and i feel like I had two pots of coffee. I am a bundle of nerves,before after,walking to the ball I am cool as a cucumber. I think that's the great thing about golf to(not the Bundle of nerves) but you are constantly learning, even if you are re-learning the same thing,always something to work on.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Motown88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royster1984

I think like a few people have said the main concern for high handicappers is to try and remove inconsistancy from your driving. Hitting fairways more often is alot more important than driving it that little bit further.

I am a high handicapper aswell playing off around 24 handicap, I can drive anything from 230-280 depending on wind and such. A tip I have found helpful is dont feel like you have to use the Driver for all par 4's, If your on a short/medium length par 4 hitting a 3/5 wood or even a low iron is sometimes the better option thinking about your next shot.

Why is driving range 230-280 yards? That's a huge window and sounds like a swing issue. A poor shot for me may travel 10-15 yards shorter then my typical drive. Hitting nearly 50 yards shorter seems to be a bigger issue. I see that you're playing at a high handicap so this does make a little sense. As I believe I said earlier in this thread and as many others have said work on your short game. If you experiencing that much variability on your long shots a more consistent short game can drasitically improve your overall scores and thus lower your handicap

He's a 24 handicap.  If you were a 24 you'd be inconsistent too.  If I posted the entire range of drives I hit the last full season I played, they'd range from under 200 to over 300.  And yes, over the last decade, my driving has been the least consistent part of my 11 to 12 handicap game, but environmental conditions have a bigger effect on my tee shots than any other part of my game.  A few years ago, two holes, side by side, one straight into the wind and one straight downwind.  The first I hit a solid 180 yard drive, the second a solid 320 yard drive - the difference entirely due to wind.  Take the average and I'm right at what was then my average 250 yard drive.

[rkim291968]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

He's a 24 handicap.  If you were a 24 you'd be inconsistent too.  If I posted the entire range of drives I hit the last full season I played, they'd range from under 200 to over 300.  And yes, over the last decade, my driving has been the least consistent part of my 11 to 12 handicap game, but environmental conditions have a bigger effect on my tees hots than any other part of my game.  A few years ago, two holes, side by side, one straight into the wind and one straight downwind.  The first I hit a solid 180 yard drive, the second a solid 320 yard drive - the difference entirely due to wind.  Take the average and I'm right at what was then my average 250 yard drive.

LOL.   I did a similar thing yesterday, hit one over 310 yards (down hill, down wind) and 180 going the other direction on back to back holes.   I'd take this one step further that even on flat, no wind course, amateur golfer's drive distance will vary quite a bit from hole to hole.     Take this one more step further, I played close to 500 rounds in my life time and co-players who "averaged" 250 yards for an entire 18 hole round were far and in between.   Sure, many of us can hit a drive past 250 yards but once you add the bad drives to the average, there aren't too many of us hitting 250 yards for "average."   The ones I saw who can hit 250 yards for average with any measure of accuracy had good handicap (below 10).

[Motown88]

I misread his post, I read it as he averaged that large of gap.

I stand by what I said though, if you can be a great golfer from 150 yards in you can post very low scores. I'm in no means a pro as you can see from my handicap, which is actually a little over 11 right now (not the 10.5 that I still have displayed). If a high handicapper can learn to 2 putt every hole and hit GIR they can quickly lower their handicap. When I was playing at an 8 handicap I would attack pin positions, since I've regressed a lot lately I've gone back to hitting center of the green and relying on my putting which has proven to be my downfall lately.

To touch base on hitting a 300 yard drive followed by a 180 yard drive, I honestly don't see how that is possible. I play in South Dakota in the plains where we often have winds greater than 20mph. Maybe it's my low ball flight that presents less variability in my driving distance, but I don't see how you can vary by that much. I feel, and I could be wrong, that if you're experiencing that much variability either you're not hitting consistent shots or you're producing a lot of backspin and really ballooning all your shots into the wind.

[rkim291968]

Originally Posted by Motown88

To touch base on hitting a 300 yard drive followed by a 180 yard drive, I honestly don't see how that is possible.

I am playing on a hilly course (Northern California) that is usually accompanied by 10+ mph wind.   The hills can be very steep around here.  When I hit a nice draw at lower trajectory on this steep downhill and down wind hole, the ball runs forever.   All I need to do is carry 240 yards (with wind) and I will get a 60 yard roll.   Going the other direction against wind and up hill, my 220 yard carry becomes 200 against wind and the uphill knocks down another 10 - 20 yards.   That's how I got180 yard drive on the next hole.   But the average works out - 300 + 180 / 2 = 240 yards which is what I can average if I hit every drive solidly on flat fairway.

An extremely case of down hill and down wind drive - I hit 360 yards once.   The hole has two levels of very steep down hill, one hill after another with a tiny flat area in between.   If you can hit past the 1st down hill and the small flat area, the ball rolls down another 80 yards.   But the hills so steep, I screwed up the 2nd shot and ended up with a double I think.   Anyway, come out to Norther California and play at a few hilly courses and you will see what I mean.