My Swing (billchao)

[Ernest Jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

@billchao have you tried the straight right arm feel? I know it doesn't work for everyone but it is absolutely magic for me. Sometimes I'll really exaggerate that feel, to the point were my buddies will say "nice little punch shot", but I've hit my absolutely straightest and longest shots ever with that feel. 195y 3 hybrids all day with that feel. Helps keep the BS very short, compact and on-plane. I also feel like it really encourages an aggressive followthrough because you feel like you haven't taken it back far enough.

Yea, it doesn't work for me. My arms lift up and off my chest instead of the right elbow bending past 90°.

Too bad. It's damn near a panacea for me.

[GolfLug]

I'm definitely not doing Key #1 properly as a result of the overswing. I'll have to try that visualization. So far, the issue for me is to just remember to swing shorter. I kind of get into that "grip it and rip it" mentality and stop thinking about mechanics altogether when I get over a ball. I need to get that 3/4 swing mentality down.

I think '3/4' in itself is not a bad swing image at all. Great for staying centered/connected. It is actually one of my drills that I came away with from the GE visit (you might have noticed my DTL swing in my thread).

[Lihu]

I'm fully committing to a shorter swing. It's stupid of me to think that I'll lose distance with a shorter backswing. I made some practice swings in the yard and it feels like I actually swing faster with the shorter backswing.

I'm going to make all my practice swings from now on stop at A3 (my feel). Doesn't matter what I'm working on, I'm going to stop myself instead of going back as far as I can. Hopefully after doing this enough times, I'll stop my real swing short of where it is now.

Just curious, and I've read a bunch of the reasons, but why would a shorter back swing help you? Especially since you seem flexible enough to take advantage of it?

[Golfingdad]

Just curious, and I've read a bunch of the reasons, but why would a shorter back swing help you? Especially since you seem flexible enough to take advantage of it?

He's not gaining extra by the last bit of his backswing.  Once the body stops turning, and the extra little bit of swing is just creating by "cheating" and either bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more, then you're just wasting movement.

It's not going to provide any extra power AND it's going to be extra movement which is just going to (unnecessarily) make it that much harder to make solid contact.  You'll need more compensations.

In my case, and I think many other people, it's wasted effort going for that last little bit of swing length. Because it's usually not done by continuing to turn, it's done by "cheating" by bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more.

Whoops ... I'm a broken record.

[Ernest Jones]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Just curious, and I've read a bunch of the reasons, but why would a shorter back swing help you? Especially since you seem flexible enough to take advantage of it?

He's not gaining extra by the last bit of his backswing.  Once the body stops turning, and the extra little bit of swing is just creating by "cheating" and either bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more, then you're just wasting movement.

It's not going to provide any extra power AND it's going to be extra movement which is just going to (unnecessarily) make it that much harder to make solid contact.  You'll need more compensations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

In my case, and I think many other people, it's wasted effort going for that last little bit of swing length. Because it's usually not done by continuing to turn, it's done by "cheating" by bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more.

Whoops ... I'm a broken record.

Definitely. There is very little doubt in my mind that I actually get more distance with a shorter backswing. Sure I may ding one out there pretty far with a huge backswing but if I average it all out I definitely get better distance when I keep it under control and make better contact.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Just curious, and I've read a bunch of the reasons, but why would a shorter back swing help you? Especially since you seem flexible enough to take advantage of it?

He's not gaining extra by the last bit of his backswing.  Once the body stops turning, and the extra little bit of swing is just creating by "cheating" and either bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more, then you're just wasting movement.

It's not going to provide any extra power AND it's going to be extra movement which is just going to (unnecessarily) make it that much harder to make solid contact.  You'll need more compensations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

In my case, and I think many other people, it's wasted effort going for that last little bit of swing length. Because it's usually not done by continuing to turn, it's done by "cheating" by bending the left elbow or cocking the wrists more.

Whoops ... I'm a broken record.

Definitely. There is very little doubt in my mind that I actually get more distance with a shorter backswing. Sure I may ding one out there pretty far with a huge backswing but if I average it all out I definitely get better distance when I keep it under control and make better contact.

I suppose any extra movement could do this , and it makes sense. There are exceptions like Jim Furyk. I was just wondering if Bill might feel more "comfortable" moving to his "wall" or not?

[Golfingdad]

I was just wondering if Bill might feel more "comfortable" moving to his "wall" or not?

"Sorry,"  I don't "know" what "you" mean by "this?"

What's a "wall?"

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I was just wondering if Bill might feel more "comfortable" moving to his "wall" or not?

"Sorry,"  I don't "know" what "you" mean by "this?"

What's a "wall?"

To explain why I put "wall" in quotes, I mean that he takes his swing back to a point where he can't comfortably move anymore.

[billchao]

Too bad. It's damn near a panacea for me.

I've never found anything to have that kind of effect on me. Everything I do results in small, incremental changes that slowly improve my ballstriking. I've looked back at my early swings and I still have the same basic problems, just not as bad.

I think '3/4' in itself is not a bad swing image at all. Great for staying centered/connected. It is actually one of my drills that I came away with from the GE visit (you might have noticed my DTL swing in my thread).

Yea, I just forget at times. Most of the time.

Like I said, I just swing. I need to think 3/4 and swing.

Just curious, and I've read a bunch of the reasons, but why would a shorter back swing help you? Especially since you seem flexible enough to take advantage of it?

@Golfingdad said it best. The extra movement doesn't add anything to my swing, unless you're counting compensations.

And the additional beneficial effect of gravity on my clubhead speed.

I suppose any extra movement could do this, and it makes sense. There are exceptions like Jim Furyk. I was just wondering if Bill might feel more "comfortable" moving to his "wall" or not?

Jim Furyk is a lot more talented than me. I'm very comfortable moving to my "wall," that's why I keep swinging there. I need to stop being comfortable; that's how I'll make changes.

What's a "wall?"

[billchao]

It was 40°F and windy today, so perfect range weather

Some notes on the videos before we get started:

1. For the DTL shots, I took two shots: the first using my normal downswing feel and the second by swinging more right. My normal downswing feel still has the clubhead overtaking/left exit issue, so I changed it and wanted to get it on camera for comparison. I liked the way the second shots looked so I just stuck with the swinging right feel for both FO shots.
2. On the second shot in the Driver FO video, I experimented with less front foot flare. Sorry there's 10s of extra footage there at the end, I didn't realize I didn't trim that right.
3. I couldn't figure out how to do the slow motion on the iPhone for both swings with regular speed in between (if that's even possible), so the first swing on each of the videos is in regular motion.
4. I kept my gloves on. I was going to do the model thing and brave the elements for the takes, but I saw that you can still see what was going on with my hands with the gloves on so I decided to stay warm.

7 iron:

Driver:

It didn't take many swings to get here. I started the day with a little cup in my wrists, then remembered to adjust my grip and solved that. Then I wasn't quite where I wanted to be with the hands going up, so I just started feeling like I was taking the club straight up. I was really expecting to see a Jim Furyk loop in there based on what I felt, but I didn't. Neither adjustment was particularly hard to do. The rest of the day was spent trying to ingrain the swing feel and hitting shots to various targets.

Notes:

1. Grip of club more diagonal across my fingers instead of horizontal across one set of knuckles.
2. Take the clubhead straight up going back.
3. Swing out to the right. Currently feeling this as a push away from my torso with the right hand, sort of. It's kind of hard to articulate. Maybe something like pushing my right palm into my left.

I'm sure the contact will get better in time. You can tell from the 7i DTL video that, despite the fact that I liked the second shot better, I also hit it way off the toe and hit a lovely push fade into oblivion. When I hit it flush, it was solid draws, some barely perceptible as moving off their start line. Still missing the driver low heel though. Might be because I still have the ball too far forward in my stance.

[billchao]

Backswing looks ok to me now, so I've moved back onto the downswing and the clubhead overtaking my hands. I've been playing around with some feels and the one I like best is to throw rice over my left shoulder. Basically, from A4, I have to come down with my right hand through impact and up again in such a way that if I held a fistful of rice in my right hand, I'd be able to toss it over my left shoulder. If I come through impact and up having rotated my right forearm, my palm would be facing down towards the ground and I would just drop rice on my foot. A similar image I concocted is to grap my left shoulder. Same concept. If I rotate my right forearm, I cannot grab my shoulder because I would be ramming the side of my hand straight into it. Last thing I thought of is just a counter to the traditional "shake hands with your target" feel. "Ask your target to pay up" is what I'm going with; the idea is to have the right palm more facing up at A8 instead of to the left. This feel is immediately after impact and works better on shorter drill swings. The whole idea is, since I rotate my arms too much to the left, feeling like I don't rotate at all should result in something in between. Going to need to film it soon.

[billchao]

I spent some time on a launch monitor today and was painfully reminded of how bad I am with a driver. I just can't seem to find the sweet spot at all. I tried a bunch of different settings and this is the best average I could come up with:

Ball Speed - 145.9

Launch Angle - 15.4

Back Spin - 3302

Carry - 239.01

Total - 259.33

Peak Height - 44.15

I hit shots off the heel, toe, high, and low. All over the face, except where it's supposed to be. It causes all sorts of problems on my tee shots.

Interestingly enough, I did discover first hand that increasing and decreasing the static loft of the club does not necessarily lead to a like effect on the launch angle.

[Abu3baid]

I spent some time on a launch monitor today and was painfully reminded of how bad I am with a driver. I just can't seem to find the sweet spot at all. I tried a bunch of different settings and this is the best average I could come up with:

Ball Speed - 145.9

Launch Angle - 15.4

Back Spin - 3302

Carry - 239.01

Total - 259.33

Peak Height - 44.15

I hit shots off the heel, toe, high, and low. All over the face, except where it's supposed to be. It causes all sorts of problems on my tee shots.

Interestingly enough, I did discover first hand that increasing and decreasing the static loft of the club does not necessarily lead to a like effect on the launch angle.

The launch angle is pretty good though, didn't TM come out and say the desired launch angle is 17*?  If that is the case then 15.4 is pretty darn good IMO.

You are right about the ball speed though, but the spin number seems pretty reasonable at around 3,300 and no one would complain about the distance you are getting.

If you start hitting it more in the sweet spot you are going to be one happy camper.. The most important question now is what are you going to be working on to get to that point?  I mean, what kind of drills are out there to help you to hit the sweet spot more than not?

[billchao]

The launch angle is pretty good though, didn't TM come out and say the desired launch angle is 17*?  If that is the case then 15.4 is pretty darn good IMO.

It depends on how much spin you generate. I got 16.5 in a different setting, but at 3,600rpm, so the ball goes too high and I lose distance. [quote name="Abu3baid" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/330#post_1105519"] You are right about the ball speed though, but the spin number seems pretty reasonable at around 3,300 and no one would complain about the distance you are getting. [/quote]The spin number is a sign that I'm not hitting the center and that's why my ballspeed is lower than it can be. Other people might not complain, but I am :-P [quote name="Abu3baid" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/330#post_1105519"] If you start hitting it more in the sweet spot you are going to be one happy camper.. The most important question now is what are you going to be working on to get to that point?  I mean, what kind of drills are out there to help you to hit the sweet spot more than not? [/quote]Yes, you're right. In all likelihood, my spin numbers will drop simply from finding the sweetspot. Everything else indicates that I'm swinging the right way, but I won't know for sure unless I get on a more detailed LM. I'm fairly certain that I need to keep working on the overtaking rate in my swing because the throwing is what causes the inconsistencies at impact. After that, it's just a matter of repetition until I "find" the sweetspot again.

[boogielicious]

I spent some time on a launch monitor today and was painfully reminded of how bad I am with a driver. I just can't seem to find the sweet spot at all. I tried a bunch of different settings and this is the best average I could come up with:

Ball Speed - 145.9

Launch Angle - 15.4

Back Spin - 3302

Carry - 239.01

Total - 259.33

Peak Height - 44.15

I hit shots off the heel, toe, high, and low. All over the face, except where it's supposed to be. It causes all sorts of problems on my tee shots.

Interestingly enough, I did discover first hand that increasing and decreasing the static loft of the club does not necessarily lead to a like effect on the launch angle.

I recommend slowing things down and working on getting your contact correct.

[billchao]

I recommend slowing things down and working on getting your contact correct.

You mean like swinging slower the way you try to change something?

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I recommend slowing things down and working on getting your contact correct.

You mean like swinging slower the way you try to change something?

Yes.  Stephan had me do drills at 1/2 speed with the driver last summer to get my contact consistent and also my start direction.  Simple, slow specific.  I was missing toward the toe a lot.  We can't correct it at full speed.  My contact is better now, but my direction is still a struggle.  I get draws and over draws if I come over the top.

For direction, I put a driveway stick out about 20 ft in front and tried to hit to the right of it.

[billchao]

Yes.  Stephan had me do drills at 1/2 speed with the driver last summer to get my contact consistent and also my start direction.  Simple, slow specific.  I was missing toward the toe a lot.  We can't correct it at full speed.  My contact is better now, but my direction is still a struggle.  I get draws and over draws if I come over the top. For direction, I put a driveway stick out about 20 ft in front and tried to hit to the right of it.

Thanks. That makes sense, I'll have to work on that. Makes me wish I had a net setup at home that I can use. How did you monitor contact? Impact tape or dry erase marker? I kind of want to wrap some rubber bands or something around the "bad" spots of the driver so I'll know immediately at impact if I made a good strike.