Pace Problem

[TRUCKER]

Since there's so much talk about the struggles of being a marshal to enforce p.o.p., I was wondering what their thoughts were on the pigs that piss out in open public view because their to lazy to use a restroom.

[iacas]

9 hours ago, TRUCKER said:

Since there's so much talk about the struggles of being a marshal to enforce p.o.p., I was wondering what their thoughts were on the pigs that piss out in open public view because their to lazy to use a restroom.

Off topic, but I've never seen anyone peeing in the trees because they're too lazy to use a nearby restroom. They are doing it because a restroom is not nearby.

Back to then topic. Start a new one about this if you'd like.

[Cartboy]

On 11/15/2019 at 8:25 PM, chile said:

got stuck in, between and around a bunch of groups today...the marshal came out and asked if it was an issue...at the time, it wasn't but after he came through, it seemed like everyone slowed even more :/...first group let me play through only to be trapped behind a 5-some...so I skipped the following hole.  then got stuck behind another group...played a few strokes, then skipped the rest of that hole.  only one group offered to let me play through 😕

Let me be the first to do what many would do, blame the course for allowing a 5-some, and blame the marshal for not getting people to play faster.

I started this to try to get more ideas on how to handle slow play.  Even in the example of that couple who chose to leave, the best idea I've seen in the 12 years I've been at the course, where pace used to be a lot slower on busy days, is to try to smooth it over with that couple, and when I encountered the asshole in the foursome in front of them, pull out my tablet and ask the couple if I could book them again at our lowest rate.

& yeah, in a perfect world, the asshole and his enablers would be sent packing.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Cartboy

[Cartboy]

Some rules of golf, right there in the rules book, haven't caught on with some golfers:

Showing consideration to others – for example, by playing at a prompt pace, looking out for the safety of others, and not distracting the play of another player.

Play continuously and at a prompt pace during each hole until your round is completed.

When it is your turn to play, it is recommended that you make the stroke in no more than 40 seconds, and usually more quickly than that.

You must not unreasonably delay play, either when playing a hole or between two holes.

A round of golf is meant to be played at a prompt pace.

Your pace of play is likely to affect how long it will take other players to play their rounds, including both those in your group and those in following groups. You are encouraged to allow faster groups to play through.

Pace of Play Recommendations. You should play at a prompt pace throughout the round, including the time taken to:

• Prepare for and make each stroke,

• Move from one place to another between strokes, and

• Move to the next teeing area after completing a hole.

You should prepare in advance for your next stroke and be ready to play when it is your turn.

When it is your turn to play:

• It is recommended that you make the stroke in no more than 40 seconds after you are (or should be) able to play without interference or distraction, and

• You should usually be able to play more quickly than that and are encouraged to do so.

Playing Out of Turn to Help Pace of Play. In stroke play, play “ready golf” in a safe and responsible way.

In match play, you and your opponent may agree that one of you will play out of turn to save time.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Cartboy

[phillyk]

17 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

Some rules of golf, right there in the rules book, haven't caught on with some golfers:

But how many of the problem groups intend to follow the rule book to the letter? Most of them I’d guess are out to do their own thing and have fun.

have we thought of switching gender roles/stereotypical roles of bev cart and marshal? Cute girl as marshal and old guy to sell booze? 😉

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, Cartboy said:

You are encouraged to allow faster groups to play through.

I would change the word "groups" to the word "players" .

[Cartboy]

23 hours ago, phillyk said:

But how many of the problem groups intend to follow the rule book to the letter? Most of them I’d guess are out to do their own thing and have fun.

have we thought of switching gender roles/stereotypical roles of bev cart and marshal? Cute girl as marshal and old guy to sell booze? 😉

Funny, one morning the first year where I'm at, the first GM (there's been 3 of them) called on the walkie talkie and told me the beverage cart girl was going to be late, and, since it was busy that morning, could I do a couple rounds.  I did.  Everyone called me "Jamie."

Kudos to the beverage cart girs, BTW.  I don't know how they do it on a busy day.  Customers were grabbing stuff and giving me money, plus tips, and there's no way I could keep track.  When I turned the money in I just said, "Here, take it all.  I have no idea what I sold and how much is tips."

A few times when we do not have a beverage cart running, some of the regulars will call in a beer order and I will run it our if food and beverage can't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Cartboy

[Cartboy]

22 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I would change the word "groups" to the word "players" .

True.

One of the changes in the rule book before the last series of changes was something to the effect that "faster players have priority", regardless of the number.  I did not find that when I was looking at the rules for my previous post, but I recall that that was a change that did not generally catch on. 

Slow groups almost always use that as an excuse, and blame the course for not putting all foursomes out.

But again, the really tough days are when the tee sheet is full, the slow group is way ahead, at the beginning of the tee sheet, and they would have to let numerous groups play through, or, a single or 2-some would have to play through numerous groups to get to, and past, the slow group.

What I previously posted was a major change in the rules two years ago, so those in charge recognize pace to be a universal issue:

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/encouraging-prompt-pace-of-play.html

The new rules put a time on play for the first time, 40 seconds, and mention Ready Golf.  Before that the rules were vague in order to allow local committees to set Pace.

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Cartboy

[Cartboy]

On 11/13/2019 at 7:22 PM, Cartboy said:

I have to say . . . this "Hang 'em High" Attitude might sound good on an Internet forum, but it doesn't float in real life in the golf course business.

🥴

I see I pretty much said that six years ago, "We stress customer service and diplomacy."

[Cartboy]

25 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

One of the changes in the rule book before the last series of changes was something to the effect that "faster players have priority", regardless of the number.  I did not find that when I was looking at the rules for my previous post, but I recall that that was a change that did not generally catch on. 

 

 

The statement "a single player has no standing and should give way to a match of any kind" was removed from the Official Rules of Golf in revisions for the 2004 edition, when "the emphasis changed to how fast any particular group were playing, regardless of the number in the group."

In other words, beginning in 2004, the etiquette guidelines in the rule book said that speed of play - regardless of how many golfers are in any particular group - determines whether a group should be allowed to play through.

So, speed of play has had priority over size of group for 15 years.

Is it only me, or has "Etiquette" been removed from the rules, effective 2019? 

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, Cartboy said:

I see I pretty much said that six years ago, "We stress customer service and diplomacy."

Except that you (not you personally, the course management) are not providing the service they deserve to the majority of customers that are inconvenienced as a result of a refusal to correct the bad behavior of the minority of offenders.   It’s a lazy, cowardly approach and the very opposite of customer service.  
 

It’s a well known adage in business that the vast majority of dissatisfied customers never complain or voice their concerns.  They simply don’t return.  They do however, tend to tell their social circle about their experience and can have a dramatic impact on new customer acquisition.  That’s considered a “soft” cost or consequence because the business can’t necessarily see the correlation unless they’re specifically looking for it.  Soft costs are insidious and can dramatically impact profitability and can even lead to organizational failure.  

[Cartboy]

Regarding the last post, I believe the vast majority, or something close to that, feel empowered nowadays, and do speak up.  They do that via their smart phones and computers, posting criticisms on the Internet, everyone being a critic nowadays.

Their social circle is HUGE, and begins with www.

If we can get the slow folks speeding up in a friendly, diplomatic manner, we will.  You can be friendly and diplomatic, and correct the bad behavior of most of the offenders.

I don't believe anywhere in this six-year-old thread I have ever said that we "refuse to correct bad behavior".  I believe you came up with that on your own.

The majority of the time, slow golfers just need someone in semi-authority to notify them, and let them know there are others on the course, too, and, besides, they don't want to be late to their bad buffet.

🥴

 

 

Edited November 19, 2019 by Cartboy

[Cartboy]

One of my all-time favorite slow-golfer comebacks was a group of young bucks, with attitude, playing as if this round would qualify them for The Masters, and a year's exemption.  They were a multiple-tee time group, and their lead group took an hour to play a hole, a difficult Par 5, with trees, a lake, and tall rough.  Obviously, they had had a tough time, so I approached them with that in mind.

(you know, friendly and diplomatic)

If I said what I normally say when I see that, I probably said, "Struggling a little?"

The head cigar-smoking young buck said, "This is all about you isn't it?" 

(Sure, I'm old and on a power trip with my little golf course job, you know, power I never had when I ran my own businesses for 40 years.)  😎

I said something like, "Our recommended Pace is 4 1/2 hours, and you're on about 18."

My next time around, an hour later, they had played 7 holes (seriously, 7 holes), and he said, "Fast enough?"

I just smiled.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Cartboy

[Double Mocha Man]

15 minutes ago, Cartboy said:

 

The head cigar-smoking young buck said, "This is all about you isn't it?" 

 

 

Actually, I think is was all about him.  What a weasel!

[David in FL]

8 hours ago, Cartboy said:

Regarding the last post, I believe the vast majority, or something close to that, feel empowered nowadays, and do speak up.  They do that via their smart phones and computers, posting criticisms on the Internet, everyone being a critic nowadays.

Their social circle is HUGE, and begins with www.

If we can get the slow folks speeding up in a friendly, diplomatic manner, we will.  You can be friendly and diplomatic, and correct the bad behavior of most of the offenders.

I don't believe anywhere in this six-year-old thread I have ever said that we "refuse to correct bad behavior".  I believe you came up with that on your own.

The majority of the time, slow golfers just need someone in semi-authority to notify them, and let them know there are others on the course, too, and, besides, they don't want to be late to their bad buffet.

🥴

 

 

And yet, you still let a couple leave, believing that they weren’t upset, while the offending group continued.

I spent a large percentage of my professional life as an executive in a customer facing Industry.  You can “believe” what you like, but the facts remain.  Relatively few dissatisfied customers actually voice their complaints to the company.  But they do communicate their displeasure within that HUGE social circle.

That costs you customers and money that your “management” doesn’t recognize.  Sorry, but the customer is NOT always right. There are very very few organizations that even try to operate under that premise anymore. For a very good reason…

[Cartboy]

I, too, have customer-related business experience, and before retiring, had more than 25,000 customers on file, all of whom I had met with, dealt with, and sold to in person, and that was just in the last company we owned, for 20 years.

Probably pretty close to that in my years of retirement, in face-to-face golf course contacts.

I stand by Posts #565, #569 & #585.

😎

On 11/19/2019 at 4:57 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

Actually, I think is was all about him.  What a weasel!

Well, don't tell him.

😀

I just checked Tripadvisor, to see if there's something I'm not aware of, hoping to find a rating for our Customer Service, but there is not a category for that.  I did find this, though:

• Excellent60%
• Very good28%
• Average7%
• Poor2%
• Terrible3%

To which I am going to conclude that among those who choose to go to the Internet to be critical about their experiences, we, generally speaking, are doing pretty good.

As a comparison, I looked at an Orlando-area course I used to play, and for which I receive an email almost every day, and this is theirs:

• Excellent22%
• Very good39%
• Average17%
• Poor7%
• Terrible15%

Yet, here I am, trying to find things that we could do better.

😉

Edited November 22, 2019 by iacas
fixed bad formatting

[leftybutnotPM]

On 11/17/2019 at 12:37 AM, TRUCKER said:

Since there's so much talk about the struggles of being a marshal to enforce p.o.p., I was wondering what their thoughts were on the pigs that piss out in open public view because their to lazy to use a restroom.

I piss behind trees virtually every round I play. I rarely see golf courses with "rest rooms" on the course. Love the euphemism. Not quite sure what's wrong with the word "toilet".

[mcanadiens]

On 11/16/2019 at 8:37 AM, TRUCKER said:

Since there's so much talk about the struggles of being a marshal to enforce p.o.p., I was wondering what their thoughts were on the pigs that piss out in open public view because their to lazy to use a restroom.

If everyone actually trucked off in the middle of the round to use a proper bathroom, that would be a pace of play disaster.  It could take a solid 15 minutes to go back and forth. Then you'd be trying to wedge in between two groups that started well after you.

Only a very, very few meatheads (usually drunk) won't use some decorum and find a tree or bush to keep things reasonable. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by mcanadiens