having trouble with my putting line.

[boogielicious]

Yea sometimes I can get stuck miss aligning on short putts. I actually like a more open stance on short putts. Though I have a history of aiming my body way to far to the right

Lie angle doesn't matter much with a putter. You are talking about 0.025 inches off the line for a degree change in lie angle for a 30 foot putt. Some putter on tour have the toe a few degrees off the ground.

Not sure I agree with this and neither does my fitter (Golf Digest Top 100).  It affects more than just start direction of the ball at contact as you state in your post.  It affects your aim as well. With the lie at 71, my aim was 1/2 off center at 10 feet.  At 68, it was dead center.  Players who have toe up, like Steve Stricker, have adjusted their aim to the way they like to hold the putter.  I would rather have everything be "dead on balls accurate" (that's an industry term) at set up and let my stroke be the only variable.

[Mr. Desmond]

Not sure I agree with this and neither does my fitter (Golf Digest Top 100).  It affects more than just start direction of the ball at contact as you state in your post.  It affects your aim as well. With the lie at 71, my aim was 1/2 off center at 10 feet.  At 68, it was dead center.  Players who have toe up, like Steve Stricker, have adjusted their aim to the way they like to hold the putter.  I would rather have everything be "dead on balls accurate" (that's an industry term) at set up and let my stroke be the only variable.

Agree.

Perhaps some people want the game to be about "who can make the biggest compensations…"

If you're gonna' do something, get the basics right. The game is tough enough...

[saevel25]

Crap -- are you the Anti-Christ to my posting?

lol.

Trying to get these guys to develop a proper set up, not some overarching weirdness so when they get fitted, their putter looks like Frankensten's monster.

:-)

I am what ever you say I am

Yea I got ya. I agree with the eyes thing. For me the eyes should always bee looking at the ball so the golfer is not looking down the bridge of his nose at the ball, basically upper back should not be ram rod straight. This means as the clubs get shorter, the more hunched or lean over the person needs to be. This is why wedges have a steeper swing path. Look at Jack Nicklaus when he putted. He was hunched over the ball.

I don't mind a slight hinge. Some doing during the swing, like a small loading of the club, were the hands move forward before the club does. Others will preset their wrist more forward, like Phil. I am in the camp of a slight preset before the swing, it helps me lock in my right wrist angle. Yea forward pressing can open the clubface up. People can adjust the set up to get that corrected if it is an issue.

Not sure I agree with this and neither does my fitter (Golf Digest Top 100).  It affects more than just start direction of the ball at contact as you state in your post.  It affects your aim as well. With the lie at 71, my aim was 1/2 off center at 10 feet.  At 68, it was dead center.  Players who have toe up, like Steve Stricker, have adjusted their aim to the way they like to hold the putter.  I would rather have everything be "dead on balls accurate" (that's an industry term) at set up and let my stroke be the only variable.

No, it doesn't. If you take a putter at 71 degrees, and change its lie to 68 degrees, and keep everything the same the ball would end up being about 0.027 inches offline.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

See the chart on that thread. Loft of a putter is about 3 degrees. Your talking about a 3 degree change in lie angle. That means it starts off line 0.1572 degrees. From there it is basic geometry.

[Mr. Desmond]

I am what ever you say I am

Yea I got ya. I agree with the eyes thing. For me the eyes should always bee looking at the ball so the golfer is not looking down the bridge of his nose at the ball, basically upper back should not be ram rod straight. This means as the clubs get shorter, the more hunched or lean over the person needs to be. This is why wedges have a steeper swing path. Look at Jack Nicklaus when he putted. He was hunched over the ball.

I don't mind a slight hinge. Some doing during the swing, like a small loading of the club, were the hands move forward before the club does. Others will preset their wrist more forward, like Phil. I am in the camp of a slight preset before the swing, it helps me lock in my right wrist angle. Yea forward pressing can open the clubface up. People can adjust the set up to get that corrected if it is an issue.

Hey, hey, holy vay … I am the zen master, not you … I don't have meat to get in the way of thought…. lol.

I am in the SeeMore camp when it comes to a forward press … don't do it. But I am also in the camp of whatever works for that golfer.

I lock in the left wrist (for a righty) with my grip and the right hand is along for the ride - I find Pat O'Brien's grip does this well - a saw effect without the saw weirdness; and a neutral (square) setup. I like eyes slightly inside ball, it's either that or over the ball.  I go with Stockton in that I don't look at the ball … I look an inch in front of the ball over the target line and watch the ball go over that line. It keeps me from getting ball-focused.

Whatever it takes...

[Club Rat]

I love the "overarching" when it's Michelle Wie...........

I'm sure many of us would like to see more of the LPGA players use her style !!!!!!

Club Rat

[Mr. Desmond]

I love the "overarching" when it's Michelle Wie...........

I'm sure many of us would like to see more of the LPGA players use her style !!!!!!

Club Rat

Isn't that the "Gidddy-up" Pose?

[Club Rat]

Or,  "Rid'em Cowboy" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Both work for me.........

[Ernest Jones]

Isn't that the "Gidddy-up" Pose?

Wie-Ha!

[boogielicious]

I am what ever you say I am

Yea I got ya. I agree with the eyes thing. For me the eyes should always bee looking at the ball so the golfer is not looking down the bridge of his nose at the ball, basically upper back should not be ram rod straight. This means as the clubs get shorter, the more hunched or lean over the person needs to be. This is why wedges have a steeper swing path. Look at Jack Nicklaus when he putted. He was hunched over the ball.

I don't mind a slight hinge. Some doing during the swing, like a small loading of the club, were the hands move forward before the club does. Others will preset their wrist more forward, like Phil. I am in the camp of a slight preset before the swing, it helps me lock in my right wrist angle. Yea forward pressing can open the clubface up. People can adjust the set up to get that corrected if it is an issue.

No, it doesn't. If you take a putter at 71 degrees, and change its lie to 68 degrees, and keep everything the same the ball would end up being about 0.027 inches offline.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/64131/effects-of-lie-angle-on-varying-degrees-of-loft

See the chart on that thread. Loft of a putter is about 3 degrees. Your talking about a 3 degree change in lie angle. That means it starts off line 0.1572 degrees. From there it is basic geometry.

Matt, read my post.  I said my aim was off, not the face angle being square to the putting line with respect to being toe up.  With the lie at 71, what I perceived to be dead aim was off by a half cup at 10 feet with the putter head sitting correctly on the ground.  The fitter has you aim the putter then puts a laser pointer on the face to show where you are aiming (you repeat it a number of times).  After modifying the lie, my aim was dead on.  This is just as important for a proper set up.