Directed Force Putters

[Jack Watson]

These are the ugliest putters ever made.

We don't use a revealer on course so the balance is a gimmick.

The best putter is a simple blade.

Why have one club that has no torque?  IMO the basic sense of the club should be same through the bag.  I couldn't imagine trying to learn a new technique for putter alone since it spins like a balanced prop.

I agree the physics of it are diff from other putters and golf clubs.  I view that as a negative that would hurt feel.

 

[JPitts]

5 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

 

The best putter is a simple blade.

 

I believe Karsten Solheim would disagree with that statement. 

Edited September 29, 2017 by JPitts

[Jack Watson]

@JPitts

so?  Is he God?

The entire putter industry is based on marketing alone.

PGA pros have pulled used putters out of some Podunk shop discount rack and won majors.

Putter design is a fugazi

[Lihu]

3 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Putter design is a fugazi

An ethical rock band inspired by the Clash?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugazi

Edited September 29, 2017 by Lihu

[JPitts]

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

@JPitts

so?  Is he God?

The entire putter industry is based on marketing alone.

PGA pros have pulled used putters out of some Podunk shop discount rack and won majors.

Putter design is a fugazi

Nope,  only 1 God. But he is/ was kind of relevent in the putter industry. 

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, JPitts said:

Nope,  only 1 God. But he is/ was kind of relevent in the putter industry. 

You were more entertaining when you were on topic....

[JPitts]

Here is the study I read that led me to Directed Force. Sorry,  it's long.  

Mississippi State study on Directed Force Lie Angle Balancing (LAB) vs Odyssey V Line

 HOW DOES A PUTTER’S CENTER OF MASS AFFECT MUSCLE ACTIVATION OF THE FOREARMS DURING THE PUTTING STROKE.
 

 
 
The Neuromechanics Lab at Mississippi State University in the Department of Kinesiology took a different approach to analyzing putters. Our mission was to see how putters affected the golfer during the putting stroke.   Two different putters were selected, Odyssey V-Line and the Reno from Directed Force Putters. We measured EEG (electroencephalography, brain activity) and EMG (electromyography, muscle activity) of a PGA Professional and researcher using both putters, with the Odyssey being his current putter.  Five practice putts from each putter was used during the warm up to familiarize the speed of the putting surface.  Static baselines were established for both EEG and EMG.  EMG electrodes were placed on the pronators and supinators of both arms, to establish how much work was being placed on the muscular system to control the putter.
 
Here are the results:  EEG alpha waves showed more activity in the Reno putter compared to the current player’s putter (Odyssey).  Generally, the higher the alpha waves indicate the more conscious thinking is occurring which may impact performance.  Due to the player’s familiarity with his putter, the alpha waves were more synchronized and the player wasn’t thinking about the putter, which is good if you want to make putts.  A reason why the player was thinking more may be due to the lack of familiarity to a “new” putter.  It looks and feels different than his current putter and with only 5 practice attempts, there is more conscious awareness prior to the stroke.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Odyssey Putter

Directed Force Putter
However, the EMG showed a surprising result, even though the player was not familiar with the putter to establish a repeatable motor pattern (habit), EMG showed less muscle activation during the stroke compared to the player’s personal putter.  This means that the player using a Directed Force putter is using less muscular effort to keep the putter square to the intended target at impact.  This may allow the player to develop a better sense of distance control through an increase in proprioception.  The higher muscle activation with the face-balanced putter is required to apply torque to the putter to keep it from rotating open during the swing.  This additional muscular effort now must be applied to each stroke throughout the round and may not be dependable during stressful situations.  The player may over relax and lighten their grip pressure in attempt to calm down which may result in a change in their muscle activation pattern allowing the putter to rotate slightly due to its center of mass position right before impact resulting in a missed putt.  Or the player may over rotate the putter in attempt not miss it right 
Sample of a single putt made with both an Odyssey compared to the Directed Force Putter.
(right handed golfer).  In both situations, the player is working harder to maintain control of the face without regards to distance control.  Generally, this additional muscle activation could lead to an increase in missed putts.  
 
 
Future studies will need to dig deeper into the variables involved with putting that may affect outcome and changes in motor control and learning.
(Tony Luczak was the subject during the test)
 
2016, Tony Luczak, Research Elevated Performance Systems, LLC, All Rights Reserved.

[Mr. Desmond]

The point is, it's a putter. Some will like, some won't. I was trying to relax the growing tension and hostility in this thread. By the way, the Reno 2.1 DF Putter is now laser sighted and uses stainless steel screws - major changes ... lol. Maybe it's more like mine.

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, JPitts said:

Generally, the higher the alpha waves indicate the more conscious thinking is occurring which may impact performance.

It's been quite some time since I studied brain waves (regarding EEG studies), I'm a physician. However, I do believe IIRC that Alpha waves are more a measure of a relaxed state and tend to be higher in pattern with a relaxed subject with eyes closed. Once the subject is brought to attention, eyes opened..the Alpha waves diminish. So, I'm not seeing how measuring alpha waves during putting has any usefulness at all.

[caniac6]

30 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

These are the ugliest putters ever made.

We don't use a revealer on course so the balance is a gimmick.

The best putter is a simple blade.

Why have one club that has no torque?  IMO the basic sense of the club should be same through the bag.  I couldn't imagine trying to learn a new technique for putter alone since it spins like a balanced prop.

I agree the physics of it are diff from other putters and golf clubs.  I view that as a negative that would hurt feel.

 

Regardless of the science, a putter has to look good to me. Not sure I could use a DF putter. I like the looks of the Edel putters. If I ever try a custom putter it would probably be an Edel, but the closest fitter is about two hours away.

[JPitts]

8 minutes ago, caniac6 said:

Regardless of the science, a putter has to look good to me. Not sure I could use a DF putter. I like the looks of the Edel putters. If I ever try a custom putter it would probably be an Edel, but the closest fitter is about two hours away.

I can agree with you there.  I love the science,  the looks,  well I got past them.  Thats why i stared I'd love to see this Tec in a smaller stainless steel head. 

[Jack Watson]

That thing looks like an overweight goldfish trying to swim away from the ball!

But,  science wise I am sure that all those radii and conflicting lines are counterproductive to good aiming.

There are at least two studies I have seen that showed results indicating that these strange putter heads make it more difficult for people to aim right.

[JPitts]

2 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

 

There are at least two studies I have seen that showed results indicating that these strange putter heads make it more difficult for people to aim right.

That's why its easier to aim left.  (J/K)

[iacas]

Just now, Jack Watson said:

There are at least two studies I have seen that showed results indicating that these strange putter heads make it more difficult for people to aim right.

In my experience, aim isn't really a scientific thing, more of a personal thing. Some people aim mallets with a number of lines on them well, some aim a simple Bullseye best.

What's missing in this whole discussion is that if you can't aim this putter - and ample experience says the majority won't be able to, regardless of the few changes you can make to the lines, colors, etc. - then the putter is a complete non-starter. Never mind the junk science and lousy one-person, horribly written un-Google-able studies.

People overlooked @Phil McGleno's post earlier about putting with a wedge. That'll give you some clue about how minimal the torques are in a putter (even an 8802-style putter) given the speed with which we move our putters in the initial takeaway and the change of direction.

[Mr. Desmond]

25 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

That thing looks like an overweight goldfish trying to swim away from the ball!

But,  science wise I am sure that all those radii and conflicting lines are counterproductive to good aiming.

There are at least two studies I have seen that showed results indicating that these strange putter heads make it more difficult for people to aim right.

Wrong, Jack, it looks like a garden hoe. People see it and say "WTF?" I just spin the head like Linda Blair in "The Exorcist" and they say "Ooooh, it spins without hanging up? What does that mean?" I say, "I have no effin' idea, but it's cool to have all that aluminum spin like a SeeMore FGP in your hands."

And Jack, you are wrong again as to aim, at least my aim. You are 2 for 2! Congrats as to your wrongness.

I would not have purchased it if I was not able to aim it where I thought I was aiming. I've used Edels for 9 years, so I know the importance of aim and design, and that it is unique to everyone. I made an adjustment to the T Line to make it shorter, and the more I use it, the easier it is to aim for me.

And when I use the DF, my eyes don't go all over the putter, they stay at the ball. I don't notice the garden hoe aspect. in fact, the back of the putter is a built-in training aid and the carved portion in back is where you can pick up the ball from the green.

Everyone's mileage will vary. But there are enough rave reviews elsewhere to know that some small portion of the golfing public has success with these putters.

Admittedly, it's not for most people, it may not be for me. I need time on the course with it. My instructor wanted to see it, especially after being on a forum where several instructors had discussions with the inventor, and the instructors were not impressed. I told my guy that Presse is not the most personable marketer - lol. My instructor did not care for it, but that doesn't matter. I just want it to help me make putts in less strokes.

Edited September 29, 2017 by Mr. Desmond

[billchao]

Fairway wood, driver, iron, wedge, lots of clubs you can putt with.

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

The best putter is a simple blade.

The best putter is the one you can aim true and is the right weight for you to control distance easily. Whether that's a blade, a mallet, or some other configuration is up to the individual.

[Vinsk]

9 minutes ago, billchao said:

Fairway wood, driver, iron, wedge, lots of clubs you can putt with.

The best putter is the one you can aim true and is the right weight for you to control distance easily. Whether that's a blade, a mallet, or some other configuration is up to the individual.

Well, interesting enough it's not entirely up to the individual. It also must be conforming to USGA standards. So I guess they're kinda saying, 'Look...putt with whatever you want, but stay in these regulations or...well...you just suck at putting.' lol.

[billchao]

22 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well, interesting enough it's not entirely up to the individual. It also must be conforming to USGA standards. So I guess they're kinda saying, 'Look...putt with whatever you want, but stay in these regulations or...well...you just suck at putting.' lol.

I wasn't referring to non-conforming clubs. What I was trying to say is, what shape the putter happens to be depends on how each individual aims. Not everyone is suited to a blade so a generalization like the one @Jack Watson made is inaccurate.