Why do the pros hit it so far? Here's my take

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what it is. I just made an assumption based on a longer lever arm with the same angular velocity, but it could be wrong. I know Rory gets a lot of his distance from the ridiculous speed his hips are rotating (immediately after he hits the ball they rotate backwards faster than most people ever rotate them forwards so his body can finish catching up), but I don't know if he has long, short, or average arms. 

I absolutely agree that the longest hitters are big guys, sorry if my post came across as the opposite. I just wanted to help illustrate how being big isn't a hard and fast requirement, and it isn't a guarantee (Jim Furyk is dead last at 267.9 yards, 6'2", and 185) of long drives. Not sure what exactly about bigger players gives them an advantage, whether it be arms or a big enough frame to carry more muscle without bulk, but it seems to be a trend. There could also be a small self-selection bias where smaller people might not be as encouraged or motivated to enter long drive competitions or work to play at the professional level since they feel like they can't compete with the bigger players and, as a result, there are less of them to use as data points. I'm certain that isn't a large part of the picture, but I'd be interested in knowing if it is a small contributing factor.

That's pretty true, Athletes are generally bigger than their non-athlete counterparts.

Not sure if this is a filtering effect during the formative years where smaller players get knocked out, so to speak, of the pool of players in any particular sport, or it it is a selection bias from coaches who just want bigger players?

Hard to say, but it seems like more mass and strength has a pretty clear advantage in contact sports? Then again here are counter examples.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/431278-size-isnt-everything-10-small-nfl-players-with-great-talent

Notice that 5'10" 175 is also considered small?

[dennyjones]

Size isn't always magic...Remember Spud Webb.   5'7"  132#.   He won the slam dunk contest against guys a foot taller.   Talent, athleticism, skill and desire...

 

This, though is the exception to the rule..

Edited April 8, 2017 by dennyjones

[Vinsk]

On 4/6/2017 at 7:09 PM, iacas said:

Jamie Sadlowski is something like 150 pounds soaking wet.

Sure, but I doubt if he was 2" taller and had 20lbs more of muscle he'd it it shorter.

[Alx]

Most club golfers could add alot of distance by just being a bit more fit. Put in a little gym work and it'll do wonders.

Tour average lengths really aren't that impressive for proffessional athletes.

[Shorty]

3 hours ago, Alx said:

Most club golfers could add alot of distance by just being a bit more fit. Put in a little gym work and it'll do wonders.

Tour average lengths really aren't that impressive for proffessional athletes.

No - not at all impressive. Adam Scott's 357 yard drive today just made me yawn.

[mvmac]

8 hours ago, Alx said:

Most club golfers could add alot of distance by just being a bit more fit. Put in a little gym work and it'll do wonders.

I disagree. Maybe if the golfer is really out of shape or something but getting fit in of itself won't make much of a difference with speed if your mechanics are the same. John Daly, Patrick Reed, Jason Kokrak, J.B. Holmes, Boo Weekley (and more) don't spend much time in the gym and those guys bomb it.

Heck how about this guy?

[Alx]

14 hours ago, Shorty said:

No - not at all impressive. Adam Scott's 357 yard drive today just made me yawn.

Keyword Average lengths.

8 hours ago, mvmac said:

I disagree. Maybe if the golfer is really out of shape or something but getting fit in of itself won't make much of a difference with speed if your mechanics are the same. John Daly, Patrick Reed, Jason Kokrak, J.B. Holmes, Boo Weekley (and more) don't spend much time in the gym and those guys bomb it.

Heck how about this guy?

It makes a huge difference. Getting fit isn't just about your 5 mile time or being lean were also talking about muscle, strength and power. 

All of those guys would probably hit it longer if they were stronger. John Daly said hed hit it 500 yards if he had Dwayne Johnsons physique...

The speed is created by muscle(Stretch reflex yeyeye). The clubhead doesn't just accelerate by itself.

What you're saying is along the lines of the old myth that strength training makes you big, bulky and slow...

 

I guarantee if you double your squat,bench, deadlift and row you'll hit the ball further.

[Lihu]

On 4/7/2017 at 9:09 PM, Vinsk said:

Sure, but I doubt if he was 2" taller and had 20lbs more of muscle he'd it it shorter.

If the 20 pounds is in your arms only, then it might even slow down your swing without the supporting core muscles.

 

18 hours ago, Alx said:

Most club golfers could add alot of distance by just being a bit more fit. Put in a little gym work and it'll do wonders.

Tour average lengths really aren't that impressive for professional athletes.

They could, but not like PGA players. Not sure if you've seen tour players up close before? Guessing no, because they strike the ball really solid all of the time.

Yes, I know people who can hit as far as the pros, one of them was a pro and D1 golfer. You can feel the ground under your foot when he hits. It's mostly skill, not just fitness.

 

15 hours ago, Shorty said:

No - not at all impressive. Adam Scott's 357 yard drive today just made me yawn.

 

25 minutes ago, Alx said:

Keyword Average lengths.

It makes a huge difference. Getting fit isn't just about your 5 mile time or being lean were also talking about muscle, strength and power. 

All of those guys would probably hit it longer if they were stronger. John Daly said hed hit it 500 yards if he had Dwayne Johnsons physique...

The speed is created by muscle(Stretch reflex yeyeye). The clubhead doesn't just accelerate by itself.

What you're saying is along the lines of the old myth that strength training makes you big, bulky and slow...

I don't think so?

If John Daly had Dwayne Johnson's physique you'd likely end up with an overweight Dustin Johnson

 

25 minutes ago, Alx said:

 

I guarantee if you double your squat,bench, deadlift and row you'll hit the ball further.

Not really, because all my strength training is hitting balls at the range, but I agree that if you maximize your ability through strength and flexibility training you can hit farther than you do now, but to hit like the pros? I doubt it, unless you have the ability to hit that far to begin with.

The pros hit really impressive distances, they don't just "carry" a ball 180 yards with a 6i. They hit a towering 6000 rpm that stops on a dime about 30 feet from their intended target. That's impressive!

[Pretzel]

2 hours ago, Alx said:

John Daly said hed hit it 500 yards if he had Dwayne Johnsons physique...

I'd bet good money that Dwayne Johnson would struggle to even get enough turn to get the club to parallel, much less past parallel where Daly went. 

[GolfLug]

Not all pros workout in a gym but pretty sure they don't sit on their couch eating peanuts all day either. Hitting a couple of hundred balls (maybe more) daily isn't exactly a desk job. I think doing that alone allows them to milk 95% of distance potential.

Having said that there is no denying that strength training (not just bulking out boutique muscles) can only be beneficial. IMO, the biggest difference is it delays onset of muscle fatigue. Affects both distance AND accuracy over long rounds or multi day tournaments.

[Alx]

19 minutes ago, Lihu said:

They could, but not like PGA players. Not sure if you've seen tour players up close before? Guessing no, because they strike the ball really solid all of the time.

They could get pretty close as far as distance goes. Consistency comes with practice.

I have not seen PGA tour players but I've seen some local mini tour pros hit it pretty well. I don't know what this has to do with anything tho?

 

27 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Yes, I know people who can hit as far as the pros, one of them was a pro and D1 golfer. You can feel the ground under your foot when he hits.

I was assuming a solid contact. What does some D1 golfer hitting the ground hard have to do with swing speed?

 

36 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Not really, because all my strength training is hitting balls at the range, but I agree that if you maximize your ability through strength and flexibility training you can hit farther than you do now, but to hit like the pros? I doubt it, unless you have the ability to hit that far to begin with.

Hitting balls at the range has nothing to do with actual strength training .

I think you might be missing the point or you can correct me if I misunderstood. I never said getting fit would make you more skilled. Certainly if you have a back issue or weak stabilizers it might but were nitpicking here. What I said was that fitness training can get your distance up to pro level on those shots where you make comparable good contact. 

I've been very careful to speak about distances and not accuracy. The consistency is really impressive but the swing speed is very achievable and not very impressive on average.

 

2 hours ago, Lihu said:

The pros hit really impressive distances, they don't just "carry" a ball 180 yards with a 6i. They hit a towering 6000 rpm that stops on a dime about 30 feet from their intended target. That's impressive!

Yep the accuracy is impressive but the distance really still isn't very special.

I hit past tour avg length within a few months of starting golf when I made solid contact. I'm a bit stronger and taller than avg.

[Lihu]

6 minutes ago, Alx said:

I think you might be missing the point or you can correct me if I misunderstood. I never said getting fit would make you more skilled. Certainly if you have a back issue or weak stabilizers it might but were nitpicking here. What I said was that fitness training can get your distance up to pro level on those shots where you make comparable good contact. 

I've been very careful to speak about distances and not accuracy. The consistency is really impressive but the swing speed is very achievable and not very impressive on average.

I think we can agree on this.

However, not everyone can get pro distances. Maybe some higher percentage than do now with added fitness?

 

7 minutes ago, Alx said:

I was assuming a solid contact. What does some D1 golfer hitting the ground hard have to do with swing speed?

Nothing, but downward force with irons gives him the height and spin needed to hit towering shots with the longer clubs. It takes a lot of skill to hit that hard downward without chunking the occasional ball.

[Alx]

3 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think we can agree on this.

However, not everyone can get pro distances. Maybe some higher percentage than do now with added fitness?

True not everyone can. Some can't get anywhere close but more than they're getting now. Yes most likely.

 

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Nothing, but downward force with irons gives him the height and spin needed to hit towering shots with the longer clubs. It takes a lot of skill to hit that hard downward without chunking the occasional ball.

Ah, yes.

 

I think we agreed on most things 

[mvmac]

6 hours ago, Alx said:

All of those guys would probably hit it longer if they were stronger. John Daly said hed hit it 500 yards if he had Dwayne Johnsons physique...

Yeah that's realistic 

6 hours ago, Alx said:

The speed is created by muscle(Stretch reflex yeyeye). The clubhead doesn't just accelerate by itself.

Agree but you need the technique to back it up. Tiger hit it far when he was skinny. Rory hit it far before he started lifting.

Here's Rory's driving distance in 2010

in 2016

So not a huge difference.

6 hours ago, Alx said:

What you're saying is along the lines of the old myth that strength training makes you big, bulky and slow...

I'm not saying that at all and I agree that strength training doesn't make you bulky or slow. 

What I'm saying is that strength training for distance is like the cherry on top once your mechanics don't suck.

Doesn't matter much how much this guy lifts if his impact looks like this.

[saevel25]

4 hours ago, mvmac said:

 

Here's Rory's driving distance in 2010

in 2016

So not a huge difference.

This might be more for injury prevention than distance gains. I could easily see him picking up 6 yards if he hits up more now. 

[Vinsk]

6 hours ago, mvmac said:

Yeah that's realistic 

Agree but you need the technique to back it up. Tiger hit it far when he was skinny. Rory hit it far before he started lifting.

Here's Rory's driving distance in 2010

in 2016

So not a huge difference.

I'm not saying that at all and I agree that strength training doesn't make you bulky or slow. 

What I'm saying is that strength training for distance is like the cherry on top once your mechanics don't suck.

Doesn't matter much how much this guy lifts if his impact looks like this.

Well then why do some pros hit it so much farther than other...pros? Poor technique? I mean is Zach Johnson's technique that inferior to DJ's? 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Vinsk

[Pretzel]

18 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well then why do some pros hit it so much farther than other...pros? Poor technique? I mean is Zach Johnson's technique that inferior to DJ's? 

You also have to consider the fact that some people just don't have the ability in them to hit it 300. Some people just cannot rotate/move fast enough to make that happen. Same as how not everybody is capable of becoming a world champion weightlifter regardless of how hard they train.

[mvmac]

20 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Well then why do some pros hit it so much farther than other...pros? Poor technique? I mean is Zach Johnson's technique that inferior to DJ's? 

I never said it was all mechanics driven but it plays a big role. Johnson was working for a time last year at hitting it farther but increasing his turn (his is kinda compact). Regardless, Johnson still hits it relatively "far". 

There are plenty of fit guys on tour (like Zach Johnson) that don't hit it as far as Rory. Some players are just able to rotate faster, move their arms faster during the swing. Some are just more naturally gifted (fast twitch muscles, flexibility) at creating speed