Should Tour Pros Call Out Other Pros for Slow Play?

[colin007]

1) so in light of some of the pros we have seen on the leaderboard in recent weeks like Na and Loupe, and a group yesterday taking 3 hours to play nine holes, should pros be more vocal in addressing other pros who are slowing down the pace?  would you have a problem with a pro telling another pro, during a round, to hurry it up?  this would be something done in-round, not after in private.

"Hey Kevin, we are falling behind, we really need to pick up the pace"

"Hey Loupe, just hit the freakin ball already!"

"Hey marshal, its not me, it is my partner.  put him on the clock."

2) by extension, if a pro's group has fallen behind, would you have a problem with the pro telling his slower partners that he's leaving and going to move on ahead?  if my group had fallen two holes behind, you can bet your ass im not staying behind and risking getting put on the clock.

[newtogolf]

That's a tough call.  I imagine given they have to play together it would make for an uncomfortable situation if they just started calling each other out for taking too long during a round.

Part of the reason Bowditich, Loupe and Kuchar fell so far behind is because they weren't hitting fairways.  At some holes Bowditch was taking a lot of time figuring out how he was going to get back to the fairway and moving rocks which took a lot of time too but everyone focuses on Loupe because of his excessively long pre-shot routine.

Conversely if I'm paired with Na or Loupe, I don't want to be penalized with being on the clock if I need to take some extra time deciding what shot to hit.

The people that run the tournament need to be more pro-active in telling groups they are falling behind.  At that point I think it's fair for one pro to say to the others, "Hey guys, let's pick it up, I don't want to be on the clock.".

[colin007]

The people that run the tournament need to be more pro-active in telling groups they are falling behind.  At that point I think it's fair for one pro to say to the others, "Hey guys, let's pick it up, I don't want to be on the clock.".

so if youre in a group that is put on the clock, through no fault of your own, youre going to say something, right?  me too. and i dont care if a camera picks me up saying that.  and if a rules official comes to tell me we are on the clock, i am telling him "NO, do NOT put me on the clock, it is entirely the fault of those other two ass clowns."

[newtogolf]

so if youre in a group that is put on the clock, through no fault of your own, youre going to say something, right?  me too. and i dont care if a camera picks me up saying that.  and if a rules official comes to tell me we are on the clock, i am telling him "NO, do NOT put me on the clock, it is entirely the fault of those other two ass clowns."

Yes, once it's brought to our attention by a tournament official we're about to get put on the clock I'm going to make sure the others in my group know we need to pick up the pace.

[JoePete]

1) so in light of some of the pros we have seen on the leaderboard in recent weeks like Na and Loupe, and a group yesterday taking 3 hours to play nine holes, should pros be more vocal in addressing other pros who are slowing down the pace?  would you have a problem with a pro telling another pro, during a round, to hurry it up?

2) by extension, if a pro's group has fallen behind, would you have a problem with the pro telling his slower partners that he's leaving and going to move on ahead?

My feeling on this is the PGA TOUR sets its own parameters - hey why can't these guys wear shorts? Pace of Play is one of them and it is within the USGA rules (Rule 6-7) that penalties can be enforced. Like all matters of golf, there is a common shared etiquette. People think golf is an individual sport, I say it is actually the largest team sport - what you do on the course can directly impact someone else's enjoyment hours later (pace of play) or even days later (care of the course). The issue is that in almost all regards, golfers, especially on the TOUR, are self policing, and pace of play is hard thing to self police. I don't have a problem with one pro speaking to another in a round, but I really think the tournament officials need to take the lead and get consistent on this.

In regard to #2, Rory Sabbatini did that a couple of years ago, and I think some saw it as bad taste. He basically finished out the hole, while his fellow competitor dawdled somewhere. If I recall correctly, though, his fellow competitor said he had no issue with it; he had run into trouble, they were on the clock, Sabbatini did what he had to. Overall though, it's nice to keep things cordial. You are talking top competitors on a sport that awards money almost entirely on performance, and yet these folks call penalites on themselves and routinely set the benchmark for sportsmanship.

[newtogolf]

I wasn't paying attention at the time, but when they showed Bowditch laying in the grass, while Loupe was putting, had Bowditch finished putting?  If not, he's as wrong as Loupe as he should have been getting ready to read his putt not sun bathing.

[saevel25]

Wasn't it a few years ago, someone was playing with Ben Crane I think and he actually went ahead and finished the hole out of turn because he was tired of waiting around.

If someone was absurdly slow, I would mention it to them to speed up every hole. Might was well give them something to worry about if they are going to play slow.

[RH31]

Should Tour Pros Call Out Other Pros for Slow Play?"

I don't know that they should, but I wouldn't think it wrong if they did. As far as moving ahead, they can only play a shot or two ahead since they keep each others score.

The tour needs to establish a maximum time to play every shot and then enforce that

from the first group to the last.

I think they also need to limit the amount of times a player can ask for a ruling.

[colin007]

My feeling on this is the PGA TOUR sets its own parameters - hey why can't these guys wear shorts? Pace of Play is one of them and it is within the USGA rules (Rule 6-7) that penalties can be enforced. Like all matters of golf, there is a common shared etiquette. People think golf is an individual sport, I say it is actually the largest team sport - what you do on the course can directly impact someone else's enjoyment hours later (pace of play) or even days later (care of the course). The issue is that in almost all regards, golfers, especially on the TOUR, are self policing, and pace of play is hard thing to self police. I don't have a problem with one pro speaking to another in a round, but I really think the tournament officials need to take the lead and get consistent on this.

In regard to #2, Rory Sabbatini did that a couple of years ago, and I think some saw it as bad taste. He basically finished out the hole, while his fellow competitor dawdled somewhere. If I recall correctly, though, his fellow competitor said he had no issue with it; he had run into trouble, they were on the clock, Sabbatini did what he had to. Overall though, it's nice to keep things cordial. You are talking top competitors on a sport that awards money almost entirely on performance, and yet these folks call penalites on themselves and routinely set the benchmark for sportsmanship.

to your point in bold, i agree that officials should be taking the lead, but that simply is not happening.  pace of play penalties should have been handed out yesterday and they werent.  telling a group or player that theyre on the clock means nothing until a shot is assessed.  and because this isnt happening, i think the players should start being more vocal and saying something, on the course, within earshot of fans and the tv cameras.

i remember the sabbatini incident.  i had no problem with what he did, did you?

[caniac6]

The Tour needs to enforce the rules, and start handing out penalty strokes.I don't think it should be up to the players.

[JoePete]

i remember the sabbatini incident.  i had no problem with what he did, did you?

I remember when it happened - as someone else noted the fellow competitor was Ben Crane - being a little taken aback, but no I have no issue with it, and I think both Sabbitini and Crane apologized for the moment. The one thing that has been thrown out, and I would love to see it come back, is letting groups behind play through. There is nothing wrong with making your round last six hours if you let everyone else play at their pace. Your day may be disrupted as you continually wave people through, but so be it. How applicable is that to a tournament? I recall it happens. I still think the TOUR needs to address this more than player on player - that is just putting fellow golfers into a tough spot.

[Crim]

No, whoever enforces slow play should be doing a better job at enforcing it.

Players shouldn't have to worry about confronting another player. Golf is stressful enough without the slow play bullsh*t.

[jamo]

I wasn't paying attention at the time, but when they showed Bowditch laying in the grass, while Loupe was putting, had Bowditch finished putting?  If not, he's as wrong as Loupe as he should have been getting ready to read his putt not sun bathing.

He had already finished putting. You could make the argument that he should have walked to the next hole.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Complaints about the pace of play at the Texas Open that finished yesterday:  http://www.golfchannel.com/news/jason-sobel/pace-play-once-again-takes-center-stage-tour/?cid=Email_MondayNL_20140331

IMO, slow play on a pro tour is not the same animal as slow play for ordinary golfers, and should not be put in the same category as slow play on your local course.

Why?   At the Valero, these were pro golfers.   They didn't have dinner dates or appointments to keep 4 hours after they tee'd off on the first hole.  This was their day job,for which many of them were very well paid.  And often leasing/owning their own airplanes, they don't even have to get to the airport on time to make a flight Sunday evening!

The pressure about slow play on tour comes from the need to fit a golf tournament into the time the TV network allotted for it.   I don't have a lot of sympathy for that.   Do you?

As for TV viewers, how often does a football game not end on time?   Is there an upwelling of support for faster play on the football field?   For pro baseball?   Why should televised golf be any different?

The need for faster play for ordinary golfers on ordinary courses comes down to (1) golf course economics and (2) the fact that amateur golfers (some!) have a life off the golf course and they need(or think they need) to get on with it.   Not the same thing at all.

Moe Norman was criticized for lying down out of boredom years ago and flak for that was one of the things that drove him off the PGA Tour..   Bowditch's example yesterday is heralded as a comment on the problems of slow play!    Fair?

[colin007]

The Tour needs to enforce the rules, and start handing out penalty strokes.I don't think it should be up to the players.

I still think the TOUR needs to address this more than player on player - that is just putting fellow golfers into a tough spot.

No, whoever enforces slow play should be doing a better job at enforcing it.

Players shouldn't have to worry about confronting another player. Golf is stressful enough without the slow play bullsh*t.

ok for you guys saying the tour needs to do more about it - well, thats simply not happening.  and because the tour is not doing anything about it, should we remain silent?  if nothings happening do you have a problem with a player saying something to a fellow competitor?

He had already finished putting. You could make the argument that he should have walked to the next hole.

i wouldve walked to the next hole, teed off and walked down the next fairway.

and thanks to whoever made this a poll, i totally forgot to do that!!

[colin007]

http://thesandtrap.com/t/73585/should-tour-pros-call-out-other-pros-for-slow-play

[tmac20]

Amateurs tend to imitate what tour pros do, so I don't think you can separate the two categories. I see a lot of people doing the Dufner waggles, Keegan's spinning club routine, walking around the green twice to read their putt, etc. If the pros have a 45 second practice routine, some amateurs will copy them. I hate to sound sexist but another huge reason why amateur play is so slow is because slow groups, especially ladies, do not allow faster groups to play through. Only one time has a group of ladies let me play through as a twosome, and it's probably because there was a man in their group that convinced them. I'm not saying all ladies do this, but men tend to be more generous on this etiquette.

[Dave2512]

I understand why pros are slow. Some are more annoying than others but they are golfing for a living so it makes sense to attempt to do as well as possible. As well as a paycheck they are trying to play into certain tournaments, improve ranking etc. But here's a different take. Even though some stand over the ball for a long time this is what what pros don't do, hit multiple bad shots and spend time chasing it around the course. I don't see pro slow play and what we suffer through on the course as the same thing. GC showed a guy that took a minute plus to play his shot and thought that was slow. If that guy does that twice it takes him under three minutes to get his ball to the green. I don't see many amateurs taking less time than that. Pro golf issues aren't real world golf issues.