How do you get into the low 80's from roughly the high 80's and low 90's?

[JoePete]

1) Getting off the tee safe. It doesn't always need to land in the fairway or be crushed 300 yards...you just can't be losing strokes by hitting OB or in jail under a tree.

This is a really good point. There is the "drive for show, putt for dough" saying, but getting off the tee is critical to good golf. We all have three putts every now and then, and that adds a shot to our score. But if you are spraying the ball in play off the tee, that's often 1 shot added to your score and in some cases two - OB, lost ball.

[ay33660]

About 7 years ago I played to below a 9 index.

I now have a handicap that is almost double that.

I can tell you the biggest part of my game that I feel has cause me to double my handicap is my approach shots from 150 yds and in.

When I was a single I knew that at least 75% of the time if I was within 150 yds and in the fairway I would hit the green.

So I didn't really need to depend on my short game.

My short game kept me from getting down any lower.

Now I probably hit the green less than 30% of the time.

My driving has always been accurate but my second shots are now terrible.

My short game hasn't improved and therefore the increase in my handicap.

So I think that to get under a 10 you should have good driving (at least to stay in the fairway and no penalty shots) and a very good second shot.

To get down lower once you are a single digit you will need a very good short game.

[dennyjones]

About 7 years ago I played to below a 9 index.

I now have a handicap that is almost double that.

I can tell you the biggest part of my game that I feel has cause me to double my handicap is my approach shots from 150 yds and in.

When I was a single I knew that at least 75% of the time if I was within 150 yds and in the fairway I would hit the green.

So I didn't really need to depend on my short game.

My short game kept me from getting down any lower.

Now I probably hit the green less than 30% of the time.

My driving has always been accurate but my second shots are now terrible.

My short game hasn't improved and therefore the increase in my handicap.

So I think that to get under a 10 you should have good driving (at least to stay in the fairway and no penalty shots) and a very good second shot.

To get down lower once you are a single digit you will need a very good short game.

I agree.    I hit about 7 - 8 fairways but my approach shots to the green are lacking.   I putt well, averaging about 32 per round but still shoot around 90.    I'm lucky if I hit 3 GIR.

[buckethead71]

Lihu:

I second, third, and fourth Mark Broadie's book: Every Shot Counts. It is all there. Every bit of what you want to know.

However, when I started to improve I kept it very simple. A few things that really helped me get down to low 80's and sub-40 over 9 holes.

I have two goals at the start of every hole:

1. Fairway first.

2. GIR.

When I'm getting "cute" and playing crappy, I have to even forget about #2 and go back to #1. Some days Rule 1 is all I can cope with. In Broadie's book, he is very candid about most amateurs losing disastrous numbers of strokes, hitting OB or into hazards off the tee. Hazard strokes and penalty strokes and other "terrible" shots must absolutely be minimized. Most amateurs aren't just not hitting fairways, we are not even keeping the ball on the planet from the teebox.

Some more rules:

Closer to the hole is always better. Don't lay up a hundred yards away from the pin. Hit as far as you can always (provided no hazards are in play!), even when laying up. The guys who say "a full 110-yard wedge" is better than an 75-yard "half-swing" are just wrong.

Dial in your wedge distances. I happen to use the Dave Pelz method (clock face swings at 7:00, 9:00, and 10:00) which gives me a club and swing for most distances inside 100 yards. A big difference for me is that I've stopped flat out missing greens from 60 yards away.

best of luck!

[Gary L]

In Broadie's book, he is very candid about most amateurs losing disastrous numbers of strokes, hitting OB or into hazards off the tee. Hazard strokes and penalty strokes and other "terrible" shots must absolutely be minimized. Most amateurs aren't just not hitting fairways, we are not even keeping the ball on the planet from the teebox.

No doubt wild off the tee is the fastest way to throw away strokes.  It also plays havoc on the psyche, turning a round into a constant battle.  This is especially problematic if you tend to get hot under the collar.  The other area I think is somewhat overlooked is chipping and lag putting.  If you're a bogey golfer, you're not going to be peppering the flag.  You're going to face lots of chips and long putts.  If you can get those up near the hole for a good chance to make a putt, you can keep a good score alive.

[Lihu]

Lihu:

I second, third, and fourth Mark Broadie's book: Every Shot Counts. It is all there. Every bit of what you want to know.

However, when I started to improve I kept it very simple. A few things that really helped me get down to low 80's and sub-40 over 9 holes.

I have two goals at the start of every hole:

1. Fairway first.

2. GIR.

When I'm getting "cute" and playing crappy, I have to even forget about #2 and go back to #1. Some days Rule 1 is all I can cope with. In Broadie's book, he is very candid about most amateurs losing disastrous numbers of strokes, hitting OB or into hazards off the tee. Hazard strokes and penalty strokes and other "terrible" shots must absolutely be minimized. Most amateurs aren't just not hitting fairways, we are not even keeping the ball on the planet from the teebox.

Some more rules:

Closer to the hole is always better. Don't lay up a hundred yards away from the pin. Hit as far as you can always (provided no hazards are in play!), even when laying up. The guys who say "a full 110-yard wedge" is better than an 75-yard "half-swing" are just wrong.

Dial in your wedge distances. I happen to use the Dave Pelz method (clock face swings at 7:00, 9:00, and 10:00) which gives me a club and swing for most distances inside 100 yards. A big difference for me is that I've stopped flat out missing greens from 60 yards away.

best of luck!

Thanks.

I am also finding that even GIR means nothing unless I can get it close to the pin. My putting is not all that great, and is aggravated by punched greens with sand on it. So, a 20 to 40 foot putt could end up with a 3 putt at least half the time.

The next major step is to hit the ball better and be able to hit close to the pins. I feel like my swing is at 2 keys, but the accuracy is nothing to write home about. I tend to draw more on one shot than another and I can't always push the right amount. I hit anything from a push draw to a slight pull draw. I sometimes get 5 to 10 yard hooks as well.

My tee shots are really crappy, but maybe it's only because I expect more from them as my irons are improving? I was at the range today and managed only 4 out of 10 reasonable drives with only one that I would consider good. Same with yesterday on the course, really.

I've got a long way to go in my ball striking to get anywhere near the accuracy I need to improve my score. I figure it will take me this entire season/or two to even get comfortable with my swing and improve my ball striking from there to cut off maybe 5 strokes? So my goal is to shoot anywhere from 83 to 88 within 2 years?

The frustrating thing is that I know I can do it sometimes, because I hit those pure strikes with my blades every now and then. Not often, but enough to understand that it is possible.

[Yukari]

Personally, after I got my swing to be relatively repeatable, i.e., one or two (at most) wild drives, it was the short game - chip and putt.

Before you work on your short game, you have to get your long game somewhat stable to even think about shooting low 80's.

Without a relatively good long game, no amount of short game will get you to shoot low 80's - IMHO.  There is just too many penalty shots and inescapable situations you put yourself in with the unstable long game to lower your score until you get your long game in order first.

Once I started shooting in the high 80's to low 90's with a relative good long game, I concentrated more on the short game.  Don't get me wrong, I still put more time on the long game (so that I won't lose it) in my practice, but my short game time has increased from zero (in the beginning) to about (30%).  I still practice predominantly my long games (i.e., driver and full iron shots).

[Pave]

My tee shots are really crappy, but maybe it's only because I expect more from them as my irons are improving? I was at the range today and managed only 4 out of 10 reasonable drives with only one that I would consider good. Same with yesterday on the course, really.

The reason why many golfers struggle off the tee is loft. As the loft decreases so increases the obliqueness of the hit, essentially meaning that swing/contact errors will be highlighted more.

Not so long ago, the only guys who teed off with a driver were pros, everyone else used a 2 or 3 wood. Since the advent of metal woods and oversize heads there has been an explosion in the amount of golfers using drivers. Sure some will say,"yeah but the heads bigger, it's weighted better, it's easier to hit etc", and there's a tiny bit of merit to the technology, however, the loft remains the same AND the damn things are 1.5" longer than what was considered std length for a driver, essentially they are designed to hit the ball further. The problem of the loft or obliqueness of the hit still remains and for the average golfer you'll be further on that really good strike BUT further in the crap the rest of the time.

Try a couple of rounds where you use your 3 wood off the tee, if you still struggle to get the ball in play you may even consider trying your 5 wood off the tee.

[Jakester23]

I played my first round of the year today and made a few bad decisions off the tee(using driver instead of a hybrid or 3 wood) and it definitely cost me from being in the 80's.  I shot a 91 with 3 drives OB and a stupid shot with a  3 wood that also went OB. The 3 wood was the definition of a attempt at a  hero shot.  I wanted to hit my driver and I was happy to be playing not to worried about my score but when I came home and revisited this thread I had to laugh.  I was an example of it today. I lost 8 shots on bad course management.

[Lihu]

The reason why many golfers struggle off the tee is loft. As the loft decreases so increases the obliqueness of the hit, essentially meaning that swing/contact errors will be highlighted more.

Not so long ago, the only guys who teed off with a driver were pros, everyone else used a 2 or 3 wood. Since the advent of metal woods and oversize heads there has been an explosion in the amount of golfers using drivers. Sure some will say,"yeah but the heads bigger, it's weighted better, it's easier to hit etc", and there's a tiny bit of merit to the technology, however, the loft remains the same AND the damn things are 1.5" longer than what was considered std length for a driver, essentially they are designed to hit the ball further. The problem of the loft or obliqueness of the hit still remains and for the average golfer you'll be further on that really good strike BUT further in the crap the rest of the time.

Try a couple of rounds where you use your 3 wood off the tee, if you still struggle to get the ball in play you may even consider trying your 5 wood off the tee.

Good advice. I recall a day when the head fell off my driver and I was forced to use my 3W. That was actually one of my better scoring days at the time.

One thing to note is that I am not hitting them left/right, but my bad shots are generally half height hooks (15 yards high or so?).

Also, I think within a couple months it might also be time to move back to a graphite shaft and the SLDR when a 15 degree left handed model goes on sale. I am hoping TM will release the SLDR^2, so I can get one of the current ones for half price?

I played my first round of the year today and made a few bad decisions off the tee(using driver instead of a hybrid or 3 wood) and it definitely cost me from being in the 80's.  I shot a 91 with 3 drives OB and a stupid shot with a  3 wood that also went OB. The 3 wood was the definition of a attempt at a  hero shot.  I wanted to hit my driver and I was happy to be playing not to worried about my score but when I came home and revisited this thread I had to laugh.  I was an example of it today. I lost 8 shots on bad course management.

Yup, that's also me.

[CoachinPA]

Best thing to do to get into the low 80's is gonna sound cliche' but you need to play more often. When I started in high school 20 years ago I shot 62 for 9 holes and didn't make the team that year. Lol. I played 5 days a week that summer sometimes 36 holes. Came back and shot 42! Made the team and by the time I left I posted a 36 or two in competition. So the thing is once you reach that plateau of low 80's or 70's etc its easier to get there again. Now it seems impossible, but once you do it you can do it again mug easier

[Shindig]

the damn things are 1.5" longer than what was considered std length for a driver, essentially they are designed to hit the ball further. The problem of the loft or obliqueness of the hit still remains and for the average golfer you'll be further on that really good strike BUT further in the crap the rest of the time.

The driver I'm currently using has 10.5 degrees of loft -- still a lot less than a 3-wood, but almost the most I've seen in a non-senior driver. And the shaft is 44" (not a typo). I feel that the misses I have are a lot better since I started with the "shorter" driver, and I don't think I've lost distance. But other variables are at play, too. What do you think of the shorter-shaft drivers, as they apply to this problem? Still get the benefit from the tech in the club head (which I don't think can be in the 3-Wood, due to the need to be able to hit the latter from not-the-tee), not as much of the too-much-shaft.

[ay33660]

The driver I'm currently using has 10.5 degrees of loft -- still a lot less than a 3-wood, but almost the most I've seen in a non-senior driver.

I did not know that 10.5 is considered a senior driver loft.

I have always considered 9.5 and 10.5 as standard lofts most manufacturers offered.

I am a lefty and I can easily find 10.5 degree drivers.

Learn something new everyday.

[Lihu]

The driver I'm currently using has 10.5 degrees of loft -- still a lot less than a 3-wood, but almost the most I've seen in a non-senior driver. And the shaft is 44" (not a typo). I feel that the misses I have are a lot better since I started with the "shorter" driver, and I don't think I've lost distance. But other variables are at play, too.

What do you think of the shorter-shaft drivers, as they apply to this problem? Still get the benefit from the tech in the club head (which I don't think can be in the 3-Wood, due to the need to be able to hit the latter from not-the-tee), not as much of the too-much-shaft.

44" to 44.5" is what my club fitter told me to use, because I have a flatter swing?

The reason you did not lose distance is because your club speed is very likely higher with the shorter shaft.

I did not know that 10.5 is considered a senior driver loft.

I have always considered 9.5 and 10.5 as standard lofts most manufacturers offered.

I am a lefty and I can easily find 10.5 degree drivers.

Learn something new everyday.

He probably meant that it is the lowest loft on a senior driver. Most that I've seen are 12 to 14 degrees.

I was actually thinking of taking my old G10 driver with a 12 degree loft and putting a 44" X100/200 shaft on it.

[mdl]

Doesn't this actually relate more to your short game as opposed to the number of putts? Can't expect to get up and down if you are not getting yourself to within a few feet.

I don't think so.  I'm going to start using that ultimate golf stats app that will give me numbers on how close to the pin I get my green side shots, but as of now I consider myself to have a pretty good (though not super excellent) short game.  I think I saw quoted somewhere here that even the pros average 7.8 feet on a close green side shot.  I put a very solid percentage of my close green side shots within 8 feet, but, especially recently, almost never make the putt in the 4-8 foot range.  Pretty much I have to hole it out or leave it within 2 feet to make the putt.  Hence the fairly rare 1 putts.

Though in my last round I finally started putting better again.  Did a bit of work before the round and changed my swing thought.  Made a few 4-10 footers and one 50 footer.  Hit 32 putts.

[Lihu]

The reason why many golfers struggle off the tee is loft. As the loft decreases so increases the obliqueness of the hit, essentially meaning that swing/contact errors will be highlighted more. Not so long ago, the only guys who teed off with a driver were pros, everyone else used a 2 or 3 wood. Since the advent of metal woods and oversize heads there has been an explosion in the amount of golfers using drivers. Sure some will say,"yeah but the heads bigger, it's weighted better, it's easier to hit etc", and there's a tiny bit of merit to the technology, however, the loft remains the same AND the damn things are 1.5" longer than what was considered std length for a driver, essentially they are designed to hit the ball further. The problem of the loft or obliqueness of the hit still remains and for the average golfer you'll be further on that really good strike BUT further in the crap the rest of the time. Try a couple of rounds where you use your 3 wood off the tee, if you still struggle to get the ball in play you may even consider trying your 5 wood off the tee.

I tried choking up on the club 2" on my 46" clubs. Seemed more controllable, but as I started to swing faster bad things started to happen. Next, I slowed down my swing by what felt like half the speed. This also fixed my hooks. I'm guessing that my body can move much more quickly than my wrists and hands can effectivly "control" thr club. This is most likely the cause of the hook. Just need to slow down my body turn, for now. My irons can go full speed probably because they're much shorter. Oh well, more work on my swing.

[Shindig]

I did not know that 10.5 is considered a senior driver loft. I have always considered 9.5 and 10.5 as standard lofts most manufacturers offered.

Sorry, what I meant is that when I see a driver with more loft than 10.5, it's usually a senior driver. I see 10.5 in non-senior all the time, and I don't consider it to be senior. (I think Nick Watney has an 11.5, and he's not a senior by any stretch of the imagination) [quote name="Lihu" url="/t/73620/how-do-you-get-into-the-low-80s-from-roughly-the-high-80s-and-low-90s/36#post_972978"] 44" to 44.5" is what my club fitter told me to use, because I have a flatter swing? The reason you did not lose distance is because your club speed is very likely higher with the shorter shaft. [/quote] That sounds good. I think I'm also making center contact more often, but who knows. I'm also not sure how my club speed is higher with the shorter shaft (unless my lack of an AK grip with this one affects it).

[Lihu]

Sorry, what I meant is that when I see a driver with more loft than 10.5, it's usually a senior driver. I see 10.5 in non-senior all the time, and I don't consider it to be senior.

(I think Nick Watney has an 11.5, and he's not a senior by any stretch of the imagination)

That sounds good. I think I'm also making center contact more often, but who knows. I'm also not sure how my club speed is higher with the shorter shaft (unless my lack of an AK grip with this one affects it).

What I meant to say is that your body turn rate could be slightly higher, and therefore the club speed probably did not change.

I think that within a small range of club lengths and the same amount of rotational force your club head will maintain the same speed. For example, I feel like I turn my body faster with a shorter shaft (i.e., when I choke up on the grip). A longer shaft should be turned slower for the swing to "feel" the same. The net result being that the club head speed is relatively constant.

In any case, I am going to experiment more with shorter wood/hybrid shafts until they all "feel" about the same as my new (used) irons. Whether it is because the swing MOI,  the swing weight or even just because they all simply feel the same. At some point, I should probably go back to graphite shafts on my woods and hybrids, but I am waiting till I have a much more consistent swing before doing so.

I hope this tweak in my clubs will make all my clubs feel the same with a "full speed" swing, and I don't need to feel like I am "throttling down" for the woods/hybrids.