TaylorMade Proposes 15 Inch holes!

[MS256]

Uhmm. As have I.

And I've watched a guy cut larger-than-12" holes in 18 greens, too, for a special event. Took less than two hours. He normally can cut 18 holes in about 80-90 minutes.

That's about right because I change 22 holes in about an hour an 45 minutes if it's dry. If it's wet enough to cause problems that can easily turn into 2 1/2 hours.

Look. Good luck with the idea. I really hope it works but the odds are that I won't ever see it anyway. Our course owner would frown on the idea even more than I would (because I'll try almost anything once) but he's the one that counts.

[Lihu]

I think he was being facetious, @Lihu. :)

Yeah, I know.

I guess my response was a little bit facetious too.

[turtleback]

1) 43" wont fix a bad swing

2) This will drive people away from golf. People don't want to hit it shorter

3) Yes, lets just slow down play and drive more people away from golf as well. We want people to keep playing. Some courses are not made for walking.

4) Not a smart idea. It could cause a mess, and it would weight down the golf bag.

5) YES, but this takes individual effort.

6) Nope, removing the flag does not take much time

7) I know some woman who can hit it farther than some men I play in golf league with. Do the men get to throw the ball as well?

I think 15" cup is fine under some circumstances. Not sure the damage it will cause the course, maybe make the cup something like 9", double the size. I would like to see more golfers added to the game. Its a great game, I am all for setting up some different rules to ease people into the game, especially juniors. It makes sense. Little league starts off with Tee-ball, then machine pitch, then they finally allow players to pitch. It works. Why not set up golf to allow kids to enjoy the game under their own terms. I would like to see more tee boxes set up in the fairway to shorten the hole for kids. This way they can shoot lower scores and still play with their parents.

No problem with the larger golf hole idea.

My course put in these family golf markers what way shortened the holes so that families with kids could play from them.  I never once saw anyone using them.

The frustration of golf for newbys is far and away not being able to hit the ball reasonably solidly and get it in the air, IMO, not the putting, which they are more familiar with and which they can practice in their own living rooms.  Why would we want to mess with the one area of the game where a beginner can rapidly achieve a level of competence that will far outweigh the rest of his developing game for a long time.  And balls that go further or illegal clubs that hit it farther are not going to do anything for beginners.

If we want to eliminate the frustration it would make a lot more sense to have a beginner ball that is larger and easier to hit in the air.  Then when the beginner gets to the green they can swap in a real ball and putt normally.  Takes care of the major frustration, lets the player play for real on the easiest part of the game for beginners, and most importantly, DOESN'T SCREW UP THE COURSE.  It requires no structural change to the game or the course.

[Lihu]

My course put in these family golf markers what way shortened the holes so that families with kids could play from them.  I never once saw anyone using them.

The frustration of golf for newbys is far and away not being able to hit the ball reasonably solidly and get it in the air, IMO, not the putting, which they are more familiar with and which they can practice in their own living rooms.  Why would we want to mess with the one area of the game where a beginner can rapidly achieve a level of competence that will far outweigh the rest of his developing game for a long time.  And balls that go further or illegal clubs that hit it farther are not going to do anything for beginners.

If we want to eliminate the frustration it would make a lot more sense to have a beginner ball that is larger and easier to hit in the air.  Then when the beginner gets to the green they can swap in a real ball and putt normally.  Takes care of the major frustration, lets the player play for real on the easiest part of the game for beginners, and most importantly, DOESN'T SCREW UP THE COURSE.  It requires no structural change to the game or the course.

Hey, I object to this.

This is my weakest area. Sure, I don't really practice it enough, but it should not be that hard. I'm just learning to hit greens, and this is the perfect setup for me to have a chance at pars.

I think they should really make 15" for grade 1 putters, then 8" holes, then 6" holes and finally the 4" holes. Maybe they should even make a 3" hole for the masochists.

Of course, there is a possibility of liable suits from people tripping in the larger holes. Then there's the possibility of there being an advanced hole and this beginners hole on the same green. What happens if you get into the wrong hole?

Rule 42-1, if you make the 15" hole when intending to make the 4" hole. . .

[iacas]

The frustration of golf for newbys is far and away not being able to hit the ball reasonably solidly and get it in the air, IMO, not the putting, which they are more familiar with and which they can practice in their own living rooms.

That's still just your opinion. In mine, putting to a newbie feels much worse than the full swing shots. Even if they whiff now and then, any swing that makes contact sends the ball 50 to 100 yards. It becomes thus increasingly frustrating to cover 300 yards in six or seven shots, and then still take four or five to get the ball in the hole from 30 feet. Plus, no beginner putts at home. Let's be realistic. [quote name="turtleback" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-holes/60#post_973111"]Why would we want to mess with the one area of the game where a beginner can rapidly achieve a level of competence that will far outweigh the rest of his developing game for a long time.[/quote] Because nothing is limiting us to doing only this to make the game easier for newbies. [quote name="turtleback" url="/t/73669/taylormade-proposes-15-holes/60#post_973111"]If we want to eliminate the frustration it would make a lot more sense to have a beginner ball that is larger and easier to hit in the air.  Then when the beginner gets to the green they can swap in a real ball and putt normally.  Takes care of the major frustration, lets the player play for real on the easiest part of the game for beginners, and most importantly, DOESN'T SCREW UP THE COURSE.  It requires no structural change to the game or the course.  [/quote] Larger holes don't really screw up the course either. Larger balls are a good idea. Possibly. They won't go very far. More exploration there would be welcomed.

[Lihu]

That's still just your opinion.

In mine, putting to a newbie feels much worse than the full swing shots. Even if they whiff now and then, any swing that makes contact sends the ball 50 to 100 yards. It becomes thus increasingly frustrating to cover 300 yards in six or seven shots, and then still take four or five to get the ball in the hole from 30 feet.

Plus, no beginner putts at home. Let's be realistic.

Because nothing is limiting us to doing only this to make the game easier for newbies.

Larger holes don't really screw up the course either.

Larger balls are a good idea. Possibly. They won't go very far. More exploration there would be welcomed.

Such as taking away the COR limits of the driver and the ball? A complete hybrid set, including wedges? Allowing up to 20 clubs?

[iacas]

Such as taking away the COR limits of the driver and the ball? A complete hybrid set, including wedges? Allowing up to 20 clubs?

Probably not 20 clubs no. Beginners don't even need 14. This isn't the thread for discussing all of the ideas; it is for discussing the one idea of 15" holes. I think we have other threads for discussing Hack golf in general.

[MissouriHack]

um no, and I suck.

[Phil McGleno]

You can all hate on me for doing this but what does @MEfree thinks-He always said the rules were too difficult and the game too hard right? Myabe he dont care because it's not rules thing.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

That's still just your opinion.

In mine, putting to a newbie feels much worse than the full swing shots. Even if they whiff now and then, any swing that makes contact sends the ball 50 to 100 yards. It becomes thus increasingly frustrating to cover 300 yards in six or seven shots, and then still take four or five to get the ball in the hole from 30 feet.

Plus, no beginner putts at home. Let's be realistic.

Because nothing is limiting us to doing only this to make the game easier for newbies.

Larger holes don't really screw up the course either.

Larger balls are a good idea. Possibly. They won't go very far. More exploration there would be welcomed.

Such as taking away the COR limits of the driver and the ball? A complete hybrid set, including wedges? Allowing up to 20 clubs?

There is a reason why traditional beginner sets are just half sets.  Beginners don't make sufficiently consistent contact to need any more.  All adding more clubs would do is make the game even more confusing for them than it already tends to be.

[turtleback]

In mine, putting to a newbie feels much worse than the full swing shots. Even if they whiff now and then, any swing that makes contact sends the ball 50 to 100 yards. It becomes thus increasingly frustrating to cover 300 yards in six or seven shots, and then still take four or five to get the ball in the hole from 30 feet.

Larger holes don't really screw up the course either.

If putting was so miserable there never would have been miniature golf courses - no one would have ever gone a second time.

And a big 15" hole to get in my way on the greens certainly does screw up the course, IMO.

[iacas]

If putting was so miserable there never would have been miniature golf courses - no one would have ever gone a second time.

No. Big difference between the two. I already addressed this above. It's twenty feet or so and they haven't already tallied six by the time they putt. Rounds don't take 3-5 hours either.

[turtleback]

No. Big difference between the two. I already addressed this above. It's twenty feet or so and they haven't already tallied six by the time they putt. Rounds don't take 3-5 hours either.

Yes you addressed it but I found your response, which, as you like to point out to others, is just your opinion, unconvincing.  In my experience the frustrations of a new golfer are far more centered in hitting the ball solidly and in the air than in putting.  It has also been my experience that newbys can get to some reasonable level of putting far easier than they can get to some reasonable level of hitting the ball.

[iacas]

Yes you addressed it but I found your response, which, as you like to point out to others, is just your opinion, unconvincing.  In my experience the frustrations of a new golfer are far more centered in hitting the ball solidly and in the air than in putting.

I was responding to your use of mini golf as the example. I think it's a poor example.

And y'all don't need to keep pointing out opinions. I know what opinions are. I know when I'm sharing mine, and when others are sharing theirs. :) If someone's ever discussing a fact and I "disagree" I'm going to say something like "that is wrong." Not "I don't think that's a good example" or whatever. I'd already addressed the (IMO poor) example of mini golf above. :)

It has also been my experience that newbys can get to some reasonable level of putting far easier than they can get to some reasonable level of hitting the ball.

Of course. On that we agree, as everyone should. At any level of the game people are better putters than they are at hitting the ball.

[newtogolf]

I think courses struggling to stay open should adopt the concept in an attempt to remain open.  Courses that are doing well and don't have a need to attract new golfers can maintain regulation greens and holes or create new greens for the larger holes if they want to adopt the concept.  What I would be against is having both holes on the same green as it creates issues for regular golfers.  I'd think it would be easier to paint a 15" circle around the standard hole that would represent a hole out if you want to use 15" holes would be easier but I know people like to hear the ball plop into the cup.

I don't know if this makes the game easier, it makes putting easier.  Fatting and thinning the ball all over the course isn't much fun, especially when you try to do it from the tips.  Will new golfers feel enough reward from one or two putting a hole after taking 10 shots to get to the green?  Not sure, but it's got to be better for them than the current setup.

I'd have no interest in playing 15" holes but I'm not the target market and I'm for anything that makes more people want to play as long as it doesn't mess up the game for the rest of us.

[Lihu]

I think courses struggling to stay open should adopt the concept in an attempt to remain open.  Courses that are doing well and don't have a need to attract new golfers can maintain regulation greens and holes or create new greens for the larger holes if they want to adopt the concept.  What I would be against is having both holes on the same green as it creates issues for regular golfers.  I'd think it would be easier to paint a 15" circle around the standard hole that would represent a hole out if you want to use 15" holes would be easier but I know people like to hear the ball plop into the cup.

I don't know if this makes the game easier, it makes putting easier.  Fatting and thinning the ball all over the course isn't much fun, especially when you try to do it from the tips.  Will new golfers feel enough reward from one or two putting a hole after taking 10 shots to get to the green?  Not sure, but it's got to be better for them than the current setup.

I'd have no interest in playing 15" holes but I'm not the target market and I'm for anything that makes more people want to play as long as it doesn't mess up the game for the rest of us.

With the advent of electronics, we could even put a proximity detector on the flag to detect a ball and set off an indicator of some kind. It could even measure the ball velocity/trajectory to make sure it does not "hole out". I should design and build one of these things for our local courses.

This device could actually even indicate how small a hole could have been holed. It can even be solar powered. Hmm, a new TST invention?

This way both a 15" hole (or whatever size is indicated) is represented and also the 4" cup is preserved.

[iacas]

TAYLORMADE GOLF HOSTS 15-INCH CUP EXPERIMENT WITH PGA TOUR STARS AND INDUSTRY LEADERS MONDAY AFTER AUGUSTA

Nine-Hole Event Jump Starts TaylorMade’s Commitment to Hack Golf, an Open Innovation Initiative to Reengineer and Reinvent the Game

GREENSBORO, Ga. (April 14, 2014) – PGA TOUR stars Justin Rose and Sergio Garcia headlined a group of golf industry leaders at Reynolds Plantation on Monday, participating in a 15-inch-cup tournament hosted by TaylorMade Golf. The event represents the kickoff of the company’s commitment – up to $5 million over the next five years - to support Hack Golf in alliance with the PGA of America, to make the sport more accessible and fun for new players.

Introduced at the PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando earlier in the year, Hack Golf is an open innovation initiative aimed at making golf more fun for everyone, in a short time generating a flood of crowd-sourced ideas from both inside and outside of the industry. “Hacking” an industry has been done in several sectors, most notably Silicon Valley, and is designed to present original ideas, let the community compound those thoughts without the vested interests that often cloud decisions by an established industry.

“It is clear our game needs something to recapture the incredible growth and momentum we were experiencing a decade ago,” said Mark King, CEO of TaylorMade-adidas Golf. “Whether it is this 15-inch-cup concept or an idea that comes in from outside the industry, we need to spark a revolution that will bring new participants to the game.”

At Monday’s event, Garcia recorded a score of 30 playing nine holes with 15-inch cups installed in the greens, while Rose shot a 33.

Previous experiments with the 15-inch cup, including from its maiden voyage two weeks ago at Pauma Valley Country Club in Southern California, have produced faster rounds, lower scores and more fun. A typical 4:30 round is 3:45, and many golfers are seeing a 10-stroke improvement in scores that typically include long putts and chip-ins from off the green.

Over the next two weeks, 20 golf courses participating in the beta test will receive 15-inch-cup kits that include the hole, custom tee markers, flags and flagsticks, and by the end of May, it’s projected up to another 80 courses across the nation will be enrolled in the program. Format participation will range from weekend tournaments and fundraisers to some courses having both a regulation hole and 15-inch hole on each green at all times.

After the beta period, other courses will have the opportunity to purchase the 15-inch-cup kit, which is custom-made by PAR AIDE.

TaylorMade’s 15-inch-cup experiment is the first to take place in conjunction with the Hack Golf initiative, and in the next month the campaign plans to announce 1-2 more experiments to execute.

To learn more about the new Hack Golf initiative and the 15-inch-cup program, visit hackgolf.org .

[krupa]

All I can think about is how much trouble I'm having getting the ball in the air and how little a big hole would help improve my game.