Donald Sterling Banned for Life

[Jeremie Boop]

A lot of you guys seem to, fairly quickly, equate me saying that I understand something with me agreeing with it.  @14ledo81 for example.  I didn't say that the Native American kid with hatred towards white people is RIGHT, I said I could understand it.

There is an enormous difference there.

Look, I obviously didn't help my cause any by trying to continue to argue it, so I'll go back to basics and leave it at that:

If any of you guys think that Jay-Z wearing a 5% necklace is on the same level as Donald Sterling's comments, or even a hypothetical famous white guy wearing a KKK symbol or Nazi symbol in public, then I don't know what to tell you.  It's not the same, it's not even close to the same, and it will not be for a very long time, if ever.

It is the same though, a symbol of racism worn by someone means the same thing regardless of who is wearing it. It's not the same thing as saying "I harbor feelings of ill-will and resentment" it's saying "I/We are superior to you". I think I understand you mean you sympathize with the fact that minorities may have feelings of anger/resentment towards whites, but what you are saying doesn't really match that. You are giving any minority a free pass to wear/say/express racist or hateful ideals, which does not go well with the idea of equality. Either everyone is held to the same standard or nobody should be held to that standard.

[saevel25]

It is the same though, a symbol of racism worn by someone means the same thing regardless of who is wearing it. It's not the same thing as saying "I harbor feelings of ill-will and resentment" it's saying "I/We are superior to you". I think I understand you mean you sympathize with the fact that minorities may have feelings of anger/resentment towards whites, but what you are saying doesn't really match that. You are giving any minority a free pass to wear/say/express racist or hateful ideals, which does not go well with the idea of equality. Either everyone is held to the same standard or nobody should be held to that standard.

Well I do believe some symbols hold more power than others. That doesn't excuse anyone from wearing such an item.

[David in FL]

If any of you guys think that Jay-Z wearing a 5% necklace is on the same level as Donald Sterling's comments, or even a hypothetical famous white guy wearing a KKK symbol or Nazi symbol in public, then I don't know what to tell you.  It's not the same, it's not even close to the same, and it will not be for a very long time, if ever.

I agree with you here.  There are certainly different levels of racism, or any other bad behavior for that matter.....  The guy using a racial slur in private vs. the guy who's burning crosses in someone's front yard vs. the guy who's shooting people on the street.  All very wrong, but the response and consequence for each will be appropriately and progressively different.

But, the same behavior should drive the same response and consequence, no matter the race of the person committing it, nor that of the victim.  I think your "acceptable double standard" comments may have led people to think that you disagree with that......and correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's the case.

[14ledo81]

A lot of you guys seem to, fairly quickly, equate me saying that I understand something with me agreeing with it.  @14ledo81 for example.  I didn't say that the Native American kid with hatred towards white people is RIGHT, I said I could understand it.

There is an enormous difference there.

Look, I obviously didn't help my cause any by trying to continue to argue it, so I'll go back to basics and leave it at that:

If any of you guys think that Jay-Z wearing a 5% necklace is on the same level as Donald Sterling's comments, or even a hypothetical famous white guy wearing a KKK symbol or Nazi symbol in public, then I don't know what to tell you.  It's not the same, it's not even close to the same, and it will not be for a very long time, if ever.

I apologize for not picking up your intent.  On the other hand, could you understand the white child's return hatred?

---

As far as Jay Z's necklace, the major difference I would see is the fact that (IMO) not many people would even know what it was.

That does not change the fact that Jay Z was supporting (in public) a racist viewpoint.  I would still not condone this.

[phan52]

I apologize for not picking up your intent.  On the other hand, could you understand the white child's return hatred?

As far as Jay Z's necklace, the major difference I would see is the fact that (IMO) not many people would even know what it was.

That does not change the fact that Jay Z was supporting (in public) a racist viewpoint.  I would still not condone this.

What people like Jay Z do is not helpful and can certainly be interpreted at a bigoted stance. But it is simply a belief and has nothing in common with the systemic and institutionalized racism that minorities have been fighting and that fostered attitudes like Sterling's. I can certainly see why some minorities go that route (Re: 5%).

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I apologize for not picking up your intent.  On the other hand, could you understand the white child's return hatred?

As far as Jay Z's necklace, the major difference I would see is the fact that (IMO) not many people would even know what it was.

That does not change the fact that Jay Z was supporting (in public) a racist viewpoint.  I would still not condone this.

What people like Jay Z do is not helpful and can certainly be interpreted at a bigoted stance. But it is simply a belief and has nothing in common with the systemic and institutionalized racism that minorities have been fighting and that fostered attitudes like Sterling's. I can certainly see why some minorities go that route (Re: 5%).

I guess we have to agree to disagree.  I see it as racism, and I will never condone it regardless of where it comes from.

[Golfingdad]

Against my better judgment of staying out of this thread ... I just can't help but point out that I am reminded of a recent thread from football season.

I find it perplexing that, generally, the same group of individuals who keep shouting "RACISM IS RACISM!!!" when they see one black guy at a basketball game with an obscure, but alleged racist symbol on his person, don't seem to have a problem with 70,000 people showing up at a football game with a much less obscure racist word on their person.

And in some cases, it seems they've been defending those people's rights to continue with that behavior.

[Hardballs]

Did you know that when the media do major reports on suicide, suicide reports rise by at least 10%, some are copycat suicides, some get inspired to commit suicide! this happened when Marylyn Monroe passed, and Kurt cobain, the media and police noticed this, recorded this fact and since vowed to not dwell and overly report on them to prevent these increases! Just a thought!

[newtogolf]

Against my better judgment of staying out of this thread ... I just can't help but point out that I am reminded of a recent thread from football season.

I find it perplexing that, generally, the same group of individuals who keep shouting "RACISM IS RACISM!!!" when they see one black guy at a basketball game with an obscure, but alleged racist symbol on his person, don't seem to have a problem with 70,000 people showing up at a football game with a much less obscure racist word on their person.

And in some cases, it seems they've been defending those people's rights to continue with that behavior.

Racism is racism.  In the other thread there was and still remains a question as to whether or not the majority of American Indians as a people find the Redskins logo and name offensive.  If they vote that it is, the Redskins should change it.  Harry Reid isn't an American Indian and doesn't represent American Indian interests he represents his own and the democratic parties selfish interests.

[Golfingdad]

Racism is racism.  In the other thread there was and still remains a question as to whether or not the majority of American Indians as a people find the Redskins logo and name offensive.  If they vote that it is, the Redskins should change it.  Harry Reid isn't an American Indian and doesn't represent American Indian interests he represents his own and the democratic parties selfish interests.

But if that is the standard we are holding it to, then we have to poll all white people to see if a majority find Jay-Z's necklace offensive before we label it as such, do we not?  Until we have that vote ...

Otherwise, it sounds an awful lot like a double standard, and I know how you guys feel about those.

[David in FL]

Against my better judgment of staying out of this thread ... I just can't help but point out that I am reminded of a [U][URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/70604/political-correctness-how-far-should-it-go-should-the-washington-redskins-change-their-name/0_30]recent thread[/URL][/U] from football season. I find it perplexing that, generally, the same group of individuals who keep shouting "RACISM IS RACISM!!!" when they see one black guy at a basketball game with an obscure, but alleged racist symbol on his person, don't seem to have a problem with 70,000 people showing up at a football game with a much less obscure racist word on their person. And in some cases, it seems they've been defending those people's rights to continue with that behavior.

Good grief. Really? I give up. You and I are worlds apart on this one. I'm curious. How do do react when one minority expresses racist sentiments towards another minority? No white male to blame. That's gotta keep you up at night! ;-)

[newtogolf]

But if that is the standard we are holding it to, then we have to poll all white people to see if a majority find Jay-Z's necklace offensive before we label it as such, do we not?  Until we have that vote ...

I guess if that's the slippery slope you want to take.  We can also take a vote on what Sterling said, though I think most would agree a medallion that indicates white people are the devil or the words Sterling was recorded saying doesn't require a vote to determine offensiveness.

[Golfingdad]

You and I are worlds apart on this one.

Haha ... aren't we always? This is nothing new, why should it surprise you?  The funny thing is, I have the same reaction towards your guys' view here ...

Good grief. Really? I give up.

Because, how can you not see the disconnect here:

I guess if that's the slippery slope you want to take.  We can also take a vote on what Sterling said, though I think most would agree a medallion that indicates white people are the devil or the words Sterling was recorded saying doesn't require a vote to determine offensiveness.

Jay-Z's necklace ( that, for those who haven't seen it, is black and gold and has a "7" on it ) is "obviously" racist, however, an old term that is defined as offensive in the dictionary , accompanied by a cartoon version of an American Indian requires a vote?

To this I also say: "Good grief.  Really?  I give up."

[Gunther]

Against my better judgment of staying out of this thread ... I just can't help but point out that I am reminded of a [U][URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/70604/political-correctness-how-far-should-it-go-should-the-washington-redskins-change-their-name/0_30]recent thread[/URL][/U] from football season. I find it perplexing that, generally, the same group of individuals who keep shouting "RACISM IS RACISM!!!" when they see one black guy at a basketball game with an obscure, but alleged racist symbol on his person, don't seem to have a problem with 70,000 people showing up at a football game with a much less obscure racist word on their person. And in some cases, it seems they've been defending those people's rights to continue with that behavior.

Shoulda gone with better judgement.

[MS256]

Against my better judgment of staying out of this thread ... I just can't help but point out that I am reminded of a recent thread from football season.

I find it perplexing that, generally, the same group of individuals who keep shouting "RACISM IS RACISM!!!" when they see one black guy at a basketball game with an obscure, but alleged racist symbol on his person, don't seem to have a problem with 70,000 people showing up at a football game with a much less obscure racist word on their person.

And in some cases, it seems they've been defending those people's rights to continue with that behavior.

I always wondered what it felt like to be flabbergasted. I think I'll go get an ice pick and stab it in my retina.

[newtogolf]

Jay-Z's necklace (that, for those who haven't seen it, is black and gold and has a "7" on it) is "obviously" racist, however, an old term that is defined as offensive in the dictionary, accompanied by a cartoon version of an American Indian requires a vote?

To this I also say: "Good grief.  Really?  I give up."

I never have an issue agreeing to disagree with you Drew, you're a good man.

[Spyder]

Wow. For once, a debate among mature adults lasted several pages without anyone really going off the deep end. I think that is a win by itself!

On a side note, has anyone heard the news that Sterling is actually battling prostate cancer? I won't even say anything else.

[Jeremie Boop]

Wow. For once, a debate among mature adults lasted several pages without anyone really going off the deep end. I think that is a win by itself!

On a side note, has anyone heard the news that Sterling is actually battling prostate cancer? I won't even say anything else.

Yea, I also heard that the woman didn't leak the audio and is "saddened and shocked" by the penalty he received and "still thinks of him as a friend"..... Apparently she wasn't offended by what he said. Strange that.