Putting from Fringe Scoring/Stats Question

[14ledo81]

For me, If I am on the fringe by only a few inches.  I would prefer to count the next shot as a putt.  I do not want to think I am putting better than I am.

I suppose I could also count it as a missed GIR, so I do not think I am hitting it better than I am?

[Righty to Lefty]

For me, If I am on the fringe by only a few inches.  I would prefer to count the next shot as a putt.  I do not want to think I am putting better than I am.

I suppose I could also count it as a missed GIR, so I do not think I am hitting it better than I am?

If you are hitting shots on to the fringe around most any green you are swinging it well so it isn't deceptive in my opinion to count it as a GIR. Not counting it as a GIR makes anyone looking at your stats think you are an excellent putter when that isn't necessarily the case.

[BuckeyeNut]

I'm thinking the input of many of the high HC golfers is irrelevant because they probably don't keep hole by hole stats anyway......they are simply trying to contribute their feelings to the thread.

With that said, a green hit is a green hit.   A fringe is not a green hit............proper putting/scrambling stats will apply accordingly.   To the stat Guestimators, it's probably the right thing to call a spade a spade when it comes to stats.  Fake stats serve no purpose....

When a PGA tour pro hits a fringe and 2-putts for par......it counts as a missed green and 1-putt.  The same goes for us..............

Faking the stats will confuse everything making them almost meaningless.  If you want your stats to serve as a benchmark for improvement, step 1 is to record them accurately.

[Abu3baid]

I keep my stats the way I do for two reasons The first to really be able to track my progress, since I want to know the difference between GIR and other results The second is because when I speak about my stats to anyone I want them to understand exactly what I mean when I say I got 8 GIR in a round.. However I have no issue what so ever with everyone tracking their progress as thy please.. As long as they know how to read it to improve of course! I am still not decided what is best for me in terms of club selection from the fringe and hope I can come to a conclusion soon!

[joekelly]

Abu, here's a good way to practice club selection from off the green.  Take a jumbo six-sided die and mark it P, PW, SW, 9, 8,7.  Then when faced with a shot simply roll the die and use whatever turns up.  You may laugh today but in the end, after weeks of practice, you will find game improvement through skill enhancement and confidence building.

[Abu3baid]

Abu, here's a good way to practice club selection from off the green.  Take a jumbo six-sided die and mark it P, PW, SW, 9, 8,7.  Then when faced with a shot simply roll the die and use whatever turns up.  You may laugh today but in the end, after weeks of practice, you will find game improvement through skill enhancement and confidence building.

:)  I like that.. Right now.. I exclusively use my 64 , 60 , 56 depending on distance and how soft I want it to land.. Although today when I played I used my PW and got it to 6 feet and hit my birdie putt.

Are you suggesting I use this method while playing?  Or just on a practice green, rolling and shooting for a few hours?

[tomvk77]

Do you count a ball on the fringe as a GIR?

If so than count it as a putt, if not it's not a putt

[Abu3baid]

Do you count a ball on the fringe as a GIR?

If so than count it as a putt, if not it's not a putt

I'm sorry.. I'm not sure who you are asking.. If you are asking me then no.. if I get it on the fringe then it is not a GIR, even if I putt.

[boogielicious]

Do you count a ball on the fringe as a GIR?

If so than count it as a putt, if not it's not a putt

If it is not on the green (fringe is not green), then I don't count it as a GIR.  I also do not count it as a putt for stats if I putt from off the green. I sometimes putt well off the green if the apron is smooth.  I can use a putter to get out of trouble too.

The idea of the stat GIR is to track how you are performing with approach shots.  It is an accuracy stat.  Number of putts is a related stat and should be scored with that in mind.

[MS256]

I'm thinking the input of many of the high HC golfers is irrelevant because they probably don't keep hole by hole stats anyway......they are simply trying to contribute their feelings to the thread.

With that said, a green hit is a green hit.   A fringe is not a green hit............proper putting/scrambling stats will apply accordingly.   To the stat Guestimators, it's probably the right thing to call a spade a spade when it comes to stats.  Fake stats serve no purpose....

When a PGA tour pro hits a fringe and 2-putts for par......it counts as a missed green and 1-putt.  The same goes for us..............

Faking the stats will confuse everything making them almost meaningless.  If you want your stats to serve as a benchmark for improvement, step 1 is to record them accurately.

Many people (including Tour pros) feel it's a much better indicator to count a ball an inch or two off of the green as a green hit for personal records .

That way a round where several greens are missed by a few inches doesn't show up on paper to be equal to a round where those same greens were missed by 20 yards.

If I kept track of stats (which I don't) I would count it as a green hit if I could putt the ball without enough fringe for me to feel like it skewed my putting stats. Since I rarely putt from off of the green unless the fringe is mowed very closely, there's only a few inches of fringe to deal with, and it looks like it will roll as well as a normal putt, that wouldn't factor in very often anyway. The "fake stats" would just be much more valuable to me in evaluating how I really played than "official stats".

Now if we are talking about official stats or bragging rights stats or something like that it's an entirely different thing and a green hit is only a green hit and a 15' putt from even 1/2 inch off of the green isn't really a "putt".

[David in FL]

Many people (including Tour pros) feel it's a much better indicator to count a ball an inch or two off of the green as a green hit for personal records.

That way a round where several greens are missed by a few inches doesn't show up on paper to be equal to a round where those same greens were missed by 20 yards.

If I kept track of stats (which I don't) I would count it as a green hit if I could putt the ball without enough fringe for me to feel like it skewed my putting stats. Since I rarely putt from off of the green unless the fringe is mowed very closely, there's only a few inches of fringe to deal with, and it looks like it will roll as well as a normal putt, that wouldn't factor in very often anyway. The "fake stats" would just be much more valuable to me in evaluating how I really played than "official stats".

Now if we are talking about official stats or bragging rights stats or something like that it's an entirely different thing and a green hit is only a green hit and a 15' putt from even 1/2 inch off of the green isn't really a "putt".

Which Tour Pros?

I continue to be amused by the number of people who feel the need to redefine things that are already clearly defined, and make no mistake, since the putting green itself is defined (and doesn't include the fringe) under the Rules of Golf, a green- in-regulation is also clearly defined.  A putt doesn't occur just because a putter is used.  Heck, if you tap in from 4 inches with your wedge, it's a putt.

Again, to each his own though.  It certainly doesn't affect me.

[MS256]

Which Tour Pros?

I continue to be amused by the number of people who feel the need to redefine things that are already clearly defined, and make no mistake, since the putting green itself is defined (and doesn't include the fringe) under the Rules of Golf, a green-in-regulation is also clearly defined.  A putt doesn't occur just because a putter is used.  Heck, if you tap in from 4 inches with your wedge, it's a putt.

Again, to each his own though.  It certainly doesn't affect me.

I've heard some of them asked that question during a "Playing Lessons From The Pros" show and that's what they said.

I continue to be amused that anyone cares at all that other people would keep their personal stats in the way that benefits them the most.

[David in FL]

I've heard some of them asked that question during a "Playing Lessons From The Pros" show and that's what they said.

I continue to be amused that anyone cares at all that other people would keep their personal stats in the way that benefits them the most.

"Cares" is too strong of a word.  I don't think anyone cares.  Heck, I don't care if the average guy rolls it out of a divot or takes a gimme.

Trying to respond to the OP on what is correct, vs. what some people may do, either out of ignorance or belief that it's somehow better is really the only thing that concerns me.  As with everyone else, what he chooses to do is up to him.  Since he asked, it seems as if it's a distinction he feels is important.   I'll leave it alone now though.  The OP certainly has enough info to make his own decision.

[Maddog10]

I understand the people saying that they need to be kept by the rules in order to be most comparable to other people's stats. However, these same people are also claiming they are meaningless if everyone doesn't keep them the same way. I would argue that while they may be meaningless in terms of comparing your stats to my stats, which I care nothing about mind you, they are far from meaningless when it comes to evaluating my own game.

If I pure a 4 iron from 200+ yards right at the pin, it rolls within a few feet of hitting the flag and then drifts to the back of the green where it stops about an inch into the fringe, I'm counting that as a GIR and I am also counting the subsequent putt. Maybe my stats are meaningless to you, but that tells me I hit a nice iron into the green and should be able to make par with 2 putts. If I record a bogey on that hole, I want to know it was due to poor putting and not a poor approach shot. Like I said earlier, when the PGA comes knocking down my door asking for my official stats, I will adapt to their standards. Until then, I'm going to keep them in a way that best summarizes my game.

[David in FL]

I understand the people saying that they need to be kept by the rules in order to be most comparable to other people's stats. However, these same people are also claiming they are meaningless if everyone doesn't keep them the same way. I would argue that while they may be meaningless in terms of comparing your stats to my stats, which I care nothing about mind you, they are far from meaningless when it comes to evaluating my own game.

If I pure a 4 iron from 200+ yards right at the pin, it rolls within a few feet of hitting the flag and then drifts to the back of the green where it stops about an inch into the fringe, I'm counting that as a GIR and I am also counting the subsequent putt. Maybe my stats are meaningless to you, but that tells me I hit a nice iron into the green and should be able to make par with 2 putts. If I record a bogey on that hole, I want to know it was due to poor putting and not a poor approach shot. Like I said earlier, when the PGA comes knocking down my door asking for my official stats, I will adapt to their standards. Until then, I'm going to keep them in a way that best summarizes my game.

So whether you hit the green or miss it is completely subjective?  I'm curious, how far do you have to miss a green by in order for you to consider yourself as having "missed" the green?  6 inches?  1 foot?  3 feet? Anything on the fringe?  What if there's no fringe?  Is it only a GIR/putt if you actually use the putter , and the exact same approach becomes a missed GIR if you opt to chip?  Is an approach that ends up on the fringe but 100 feet from the hole treated the same as one on the fringe but 20 feet from the hole?  80 feet versus 30 feet?  60 versus 40?  Or does it all vary day by day, shot by shot?

If you boom a drive 300+ yards but miss the fairway by 6 inches, do you count that as a fairway hit too, because it was still be a damn good drive?

I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass here.  I'm genuinely trying to understand.  If the purpose of keeping stats is to gain a better understanding of our game, it seems to me that the criteria for each stat should be well defined, objective, and consistently applied.  Otherwise the stats themselves are less reflective of what actually happened and more about the subjective context of the entire shot.  Since that subjectivity is going to vary without well-defined parameters, analysis of the statistics themselves is going to be far less precise.  That's not opinion, it's just math....

[14ledo81]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maddog10

I understand the people saying that they need to be kept by the rules in order to be most comparable to other people's stats. However, these same people are also claiming they are meaningless if everyone doesn't keep them the same way. I would argue that while they may be meaningless in terms of comparing your stats to my stats, which I care nothing about mind you, they are far from meaningless when it comes to evaluating my own game.

If I pure a 4 iron from 200+ yards right at the pin, it rolls within a few feet of hitting the flag and then drifts to the back of the green where it stops about an inch into the fringe, I'm counting that as a GIR and I am also counting the subsequent putt. Maybe my stats are meaningless to you, but that tells me I hit a nice iron into the green and should be able to make par with 2 putts. If I record a bogey on that hole, I want to know it was due to poor putting and not a poor approach shot. Like I said earlier, when the PGA comes knocking down my door asking for my official stats, I will adapt to their standards. Until then, I'm going to keep them in a way that best summarizes my game.

So whether you hit the green or miss it is completely subjective?  I'm curious, how far do you have to miss a green by in order for you to consider yourself as having "missed" the green?  6 inches?  1 foot?  3 feet? Anything on the fringe?  What if there's no fringe?  Is it only a GIR/putt if you actually use the putter, and the exact same approach becomes a missed GIR if you opt to chip?  Is an approach that ends up on the fringe but 100 feet from the hole treated the same as one on the fringe but 20 feet from the hole?  80 feet versus 30 feet?  60 versus 40?  Or does it all vary day by day, shot by shot?

If you boom a drive 300+ yards but miss the fairway by 6 inches, do you count that as a fairway hit too, because it was still be a damn good drive?

I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass here.  I'm genuinely trying to understand.  If the purpose of keeping stats is to gain a better understanding of our game, it seems to me that the criteria for each stat should be well defined, objective, and consistently applied.  Otherwise the stats themselves are less reflective of what actually happened and more about the subjective context of the entire shot.  Since that subjectivity is going to vary without well-defined parameters, analysis of the statistics themselves is going to be far less precise.  That's not opinion, it's just math....

@David in FL ,  I actually do similar to Maddog.  To answer your question, what I do is completely subjective.  If I am going for a back pin, fat the ball, and come up short on the fringe.  I would not count that as a GIR.  I guess I do not really have a clear cut designation.

Again, the reason I do this is not to inflate my GIR stats.  It is not to make my putting stats look better.

[Golfingdad]

@David in FL ,  I actually do similar to Maddog.  To answer your question, what I do is completely subjective.  If I am going for a back pin, fat the ball, and come up short on the fringe.  I would not count that as a GIR.  I guess I do not really have a clear cut designation.

Again, the reason I do this is not to inflate my GIR stats.  It is not to make my putting stats look better.

This makes sense to me.  I do something similar with FIR.  If I play a course I don't know and nail a perfect drive right where I'm aiming, yet it turns out that the fairway ends, or turns, such that I'm in the rough, I'll probably still call that a FIR.

Likewise, if I yank one OB that bounces off a roof back into the fairway, I'm not going to call that a FIR.

The reason being, I want to try and keep track of progress.  Luck is independent of progress.

[saevel25]

This makes sense to me.  I do something similar with FIR.  If I play a course I don't know and nail a perfect drive right where I'm aiming, yet it turns out that the fairway ends, or turns, such that I'm in the rough, I'll probably still call that a FIR.

Likewise, if I yank one OB that bounces off a roof back into the fairway, I'm not going to call that a FIR.

The reason being, I want to try and keep track of progress.  Luck is independent of progress.

I kinda like to keep track of shots that turn out how I imagine them. If its a push draw, and it turns out the way I want, I mark +1. If it isn't a push draw, but still ends up not hurting me, like still a GIR, then that is a 0. If its a total shit shot, -1.