I'd Be Scratch with a Better Mental Game

[Lihu]

The "one good shot" keeps my friends interested. Yesterday, I was great off the tee with fairways hit and only so so ball striking and bogeyed a lot of holes, but it felt great and I scored my lowest to date. Did I care that I couldn't hit my irons over 150 yards, not really. A good day of decent drives feels great even when everything else was mediocre.

[iacas]

  inthecup said:

Someone that is regularly in the 90's or 100's can't expect a drastic move to scratch, not going to happen.  BUT that perfect baby draw hit once a round (by mistake or not) is what keeps people coming back, don't sell the one shot short.  It is a powerful draw to the game.

I didn't say it wasn't. Just that it's not representative of the type of golfer they are.

  inthecup said:

The "mental game" means different things to different people.  If I could keep concentration for a full round my scores would be better. Is that what mental game means? It does to me. Do I make bad decisions when my "mental game" starts to fade, not really.  Do I make bad swings because I lose concentration, yes.

Generally speaking, and entirely IMO, people overstate the importance of the mental game.

Can people save strokes by not making stupid decisions? Yeah, of course, I'm writing a book about it (and other stuff). But this guy wasn't breaking 100 and thought he'd be scratch with JUST his mental game. He wouldn't have broken 90 with a better mental game.

[Lihu]

  iacas said:

I didn't say it wasn't. Just that it's not representative of the type of golfer they are. Generally speaking, and entirely IMO, people overstate the importance of the mental game. Can people save strokes by not making stupid decisions? Yeah, of course, I'm writing a book about it (and other stuff). But this guy wasn't breaking 100 and thought he'd be scratch with JUST his mental game. He wouldn't have broken 90 with a better mental game.

It takes a while to learn that one shot does not represent your capability, I'm just hoping my friends don't give up before they get good enough to learn this. :-) The subject of the original post didn't even break 100 (even after stopping at 15 holes?), and was saying he only had mental issues? :whistle: Not sure if I should just react like so :-\

[InTheRough]

Hi Everybody, just wanted to drop my own 2 cents in on this topic...I was a pitcher in college but i only had 1 good year and then had a series of injuries that put me on the DL for the remaining 3 years which basically turned me into a pitching coach for 3 years and i have seen that this type of thought process is typical for somebody that is struggling in a sport.  It is easier for the person that is struggling to think that if they could do X then they would be Y when in reality they need to be able to do A, B, C, D, E, and X for them to be Y.  However if you were to tell them that they actually needed to do all these things to be a good player then they would probably be incredibly discouraged and might even lose interest in the game entirely.  I know that golf is a particularly very ego driven game, and sometimes these illusions of superior skill can cloud up reasonable thinking, and even make someone annoying to play with, I think that it is always best to encourage a player that is struggling and discretely help them with A, B, or C then just telling them that they are completely delusional about their skill level (unless they are being a complete tool about it...in that case, have at em')

[dbrock504]

  InTheRough said:

Hi Everybody, just wanted to drop my own 2 cents in on this topic...I was a pitcher in college but i only had 1 good year and then had a series of injuries that put me on the DL for the remaining 3 years which basically turned me into a pitching coach for 3 years and i have seen that this type of thought process is typical for somebody that is struggling in a sport.  It is easier for the person that is struggling to think that if they could do X then they would be Y when in reality they need to be able to do A, B, C, D, E, and X for them to be Y.  However if you were to tell them that they actually needed to do all these things to be a good player then they would probably be incredibly discouraged and might even lose interest in the game entirely.  I know that golf is a particularly very ego driven game, and sometimes these illusions of superior skill can cloud up reasonable thinking, and even make someone annoying to play with, I think that it is always best to encourage a player that is struggling and discretely help them with A, B, or C then just telling them that they are completely delusional about their skill level (unless they are being a complete tool about it...in that case, have at em')

Well said. My dad is a 40 hcp (112 avg) and I complement (and harp on) him every time he has a great shot (which only happens a hand full of times all day) and he seems to really enjoy the game. If I sat there are told him how many times he 3 putts or chips from one side to the other, all it would do is discourage him from playing.

[GolfLug]

  InTheRough said:

Hi Everybody, just wanted to drop my own 2 cents in on this topic...I was a pitcher in college but i only had 1 good year and then had a series of injuries that put me on the DL for the remaining 3 years which basically turned me into a pitching coach for 3 years and i have seen that this type of thought process is typical for somebody that is struggling in a sport.  It is easier for the person that is struggling to think that if they could do X then they would be Y when in reality they need to be able to do A, B, C, D, E, and X for them to be Y.  However if you were to tell them that they actually needed to do all these things to be a good player then they would probably be incredibly discouraged and might even lose interest in the game entirely.  I know that golf is a particularly very ego driven game, and sometimes these illusions of superior skill can cloud up reasonable thinking, and even make someone annoying to play with, I think that it is always best to encourage a player that is struggling and discretely help them with A, B, or C then just telling them that they are completely delusional about their skill level (unless they are being a complete tool about it...in that case, have at em')

Hi ITR, all of what you said absolutely true for training the very young who need a positive spin on a difficult climb. For a more mature group, the flip side of delusional understanding of one's ability is full awareness of short-comings. Blame large gaps on a 'mental' game or something vague for which they would not be too hard pressed to held accountable for. People do it all the time with eyes wide open. I think there is a very good chance this person mentioned in OP is not delusional AT ALL. The OP is a an instructor to this person and should rightfully call him out (as he did). Non instructors/non involved parties should probably simply find the amusement in it at best I guess. Or torch him on blogs like this.

[InTheRough]

  GolfLug said:

Hi ITR, all of what you said absolutely true for training the very young who need a positive spin on a difficult climb. For a more mature group, the flip side of delusional understanding of one's ability is full awareness of short-comings. Blame large gaps on a 'mental' game or something vague for which they would not be too hard pressed to held accountable for. People do it all the time with eyes wide open. I think there is a very good chance this person mentioned in OP is not delusional AT ALL. The OP is a an instructor to this person and should rightfully call him out (as he did). Non instructors/non involved parties should probably simply find the amusement in it at best I guess. Or torch him on blogs  like this.

Haha , I like those last 2 sentences, my friends an i have a lot of fun on the course laughing at each other, especially when one of us starts talking a big game (none of us are all that great so there is always a lot of laughing).

I'm not so sure about the bold part though.  I completely agree 100% about young golfers needing plenty of encouragement to help them keep interested in a tough game but i think it applies to people of every age level (i'm assuming you were referring to someone a little older when you said "mature" since you mentioned younger golfers earlier in the message).  Also, I'm not so sure that someone who is well aware of all of their short-comings in relation to their golf game would make a statement like "I'd be scratch with a better mental game" because then they would be very aware that they need a lot more than just a better mental game to become scratch.

[dbuck]

Except for the "Think I could be scratch" part, you could have been playing with me. I must have a great mental game because my buddies are always saying, "Man, you are mental!"

[JP1111]

Three things that I suffer with in terms of the mental game are. a) If I make a bad start I get it in my head that I have to play catch up. Rather that just concentrating on hitting good golf shots and playing my way back I think, "right, I'm going to have to play these three holes in one under now." All that usually happens then is I play too aggressively and it just makes things worse. b) Even if I'm playing really well I let bad shots get in my head. I can strike the ball really well all day, but just one or two loose ones can make me lose a bit of confidence in my swing. c) I allow bad experiences to play on my mind and dictate how I play a hole. If I went OB on a hole last time out I will be worried I am going to do it again, and I let this dictate the kind of shot I play, rather than playing the correct way. I would break golf into 3 areas. Physical game, mental game, and course management/decision making. The physical part is self explanatory, the mental part are the kind of things I've mentioned above, and the other part is things like club and shot selection. The lines between the mental game and decision making do become blurred from time to time though.

[Shagia]

Man iacas, lets just hope he is not a lurker in this forum :-D :-D :-D

[Lihu]

  Shagia said:

Man iacas, lets just hope he is not a lurker in this forum

Or at least has a decent sense of humor. . .

[iacas]

  Shagia said:

Man iacas, lets just hope he is not a lurker in this forum

I considered that.

I'm a pretty direct guy. I told him on the golf course that in no way was that true, just as I'm basically saying again with this thread.

[CarlSpackler]

I thought you were describing my round with @saevel25 yesterday at first.

[Jeremie Boop]

  CarlSpackler said:

I thought you were describing my round with @saevel25 yesterday at first.

Can't be as bad as I've been lately, hopefully I'll get a chance to golf with you 2 sometime soon.

On topic, I feel like there are some small things that a better mental game will help with. Stopping a blow up hole by being able to keep calm after a bad shot or not letting the sight of water intimidated you, but it won't make someone like me a scratch golfer by any stretch.

[Lihu]

  Jeremie Boop said:

Can't be as bad as I've been lately, hopefully I'll get a chance to golf with you 2 sometime soon.

On topic, I feel like there are some small things that a better mental game will help with. Stopping a blow up hole by being able to keep calm after a bad shot or not letting the sight of water intimidated you, but it won't make someone like me a scratch golfer by any stretch.

Yes, I agree with the concepts, but this type of thinking only allows us to play at the bogey level. The next step is laying down a good enough course strategy that will not end you up in trouble in the first place. Being intimidated by water usually means you are still not that confident in your swing yet, this takes a lot well structured practice.

I still think that the scratch mentality comes from being confident that you can pull off a shot to a known reliability factor, and that you really know your misses well.

[Jeremie Boop]

  Lihu said:

Yes, I agree with the concepts, but this type of thinking only allows us to play at the bogey level. The next step is laying down a good enough course strategy that will not end you up in trouble in the first place. Being intimidated by water usually means you are still not that confident in your swing yet, this takes a lot well structured practice.

I still think that the scratch mentality comes from being confident that you can pull off a shot to a known reliability factor, and that you really know your misses well.

Ah, yes, but you're mental game evolves along with your actual game IMO. That's why I said mental game wouldn't make me scratch, but it's something that could help along with swing improvements.

[Lihu]

  Jeremie Boop said:

Ah, yes, but you're mental game evolves along with your actual game IMO.

Sure, I agree. The one thing I am trying to add is that you need to track all your shot stats very well to "know the odds" when there is a tricky shot to be made. Many times this calls for knowing your swing more than your game overall.

[CarlSpackler]

  Jeremie Boop said:

Can't be as bad as I've been lately, hopefully I'll get a chance to golf with you 2 sometime soon.

On topic, I feel like there are some small things that a better mental game will help with. Stopping a blow up hole by being able to keep calm after a bad shot or not letting the sight of water intimidated you, but it won't make someone like me a scratch golfer by any stretch.

Oh, it was bad... REAL bad. It was fun though. I'm glad I didn't kill @saevel25 with a chili pepper. But yeah, I have no delusion of ever being scatch or pro. I'll would love to make it to single digit, but not sure if I have that much time (or money) to commit to the endeavor. I just love game and want to play as well as possible.

I would love meet up. I need to get out a lot more. I'll post a suggestion in the Dayton thread.