Self driving car project

[Ernest Jones]

Assuming it doesn't malfunction...

They were talking about these google cars on the radio the other day, the have something in the order of 4-5 (or more) levels of redundancy, so the odds of a malfunction is somewhere in the neighbourhood of getting hit by a submarine while hang gliding.

[CarlSpackler]

They were talking about these google cars on the radio the other day, the have something in the order of 4-5 (or more) levels of redundancy, so the odds of a malfunction is somewhere in the neighbourhood of getting hit by a submarine while hang gliding.

Funny. That's what EMC said about the POS storage network they sold us.

Hopefully they make it more secure than the Android OS. There are certain "groups" of people in the world who would love nothing more than to compromise a self driving car and have it drive itself off a cliff or be able to control it remotely.

[saevel25]

They were talking about these google cars on the radio the other day, the have something in the order of 4-5 (or more) levels of redundancy, so the odds of a malfunction is somewhere in the neighbourhood of getting hit by a submarine while hang gliding.

From what I heard there has been two accidents with these cars. All when the human driver takes control of the car

My only concern is hacking the cars. This one hacker who works for a university trying to figure out ways to stay ahead of the bad hackers, he figured out how to hack current cars. Basically from his office he was able to flash the lights of a parked car in the parking lot, open the doors, and start the car. He did this through the cars bluetooth I believe.

[newtogolf]

From what I heard there has been two accidents with these cars. All when the human driver takes control of the car

My only concern is hacking the cars. This one hacker who works for a university trying to figure out ways to stay ahead of the bad hackers, he figured out how to hack current cars. Basically from his office he was able to flash the lights of a parked car in the parking lot, open the doors, and start the car. He did this through the cars bluetooth I believe.

Bluetooth interface is definitely a concern within the computer risks industry, so is the interface that exists between the car and OnStar equipped devices.  Once inside the main computer different areas of the car are exposed depending on the manufacturer.  The Google cars will become a target for hackers both good and bad that like to expose risks within our technology.

[jamo]

Exactly.  Not just "control" either.....the daily commute notwithstanding, a lot of people simply enjoy driving.  If all we wanted was to get from point A to point B, there'd be a LOT fewer sports cars sold than actually are.....

If I can play devil's advocate for a second, I'd like to make a few points: [LIST] [*] I like driving as much as (or more than) the next guy, but I'm not sure I actually "like driving." That is, I don't think the speed up/slow down, left turn/right turn, quick stop of it all is really what I'm enjoying. More likely it's the scenery, it's listening to my iPhone, it's the alone time. I don't taking the wheel and peddles away would curtail that much. [*] Also, I don't think this would negate the want for or availability of sports cars. Even if they drive themselves, some people are going to want smaller, more economical cars, some people are going to want SUVs/minivans/trucks, and some are going to want 2-seat convertible roadsters. That doesn't have to change. [*] People who owned horses and buggies probably had concerns too. :-) [/LIST]

[saevel25]

If I can play devil's advocate for a second, I'd like to make a few points:

I like driving as much as (or more than) the next guy, but I'm not sure I actually "like driving." That is, I don't think the speed up/slow down, left turn/right turn, quick stop of it all is really what I'm enjoying. More likely it's the scenery, it's listening to my iPhone, it's the alone time. I don't taking the wheel and peddles away would curtail that much.

Also, I don't think this would negate the want for or availability of sports cars. Even if they drive themselves, some people are going to want smaller, more economical cars, some people are going to want SUVs/minivans/trucks, and some are going to want 2-seat convertible roadsters. That doesn't have to change.

People who owned horses and buggies probably had concerns too.

I would agree with this. The thing I hate about driving is getting stuck in traffic. This is the reason why I will just take back county and state highways over major freeways in Ohio. I rather be moving at 55 mph than get stuck on the freeway. For me, I like the moving scenery, listening to some tunes. I like coasting down the road, it's relaxing. Majority of the time I have the cruse control on anyways.

So, I wouldn't mind a self driving car as long I can roll down the windows

[CarlSpackler]

I would agree with this. The thing I hate about driving is getting stuck in traffic. This is the reason why I will just take back county and state highways over major freeways in Ohio. I rather be moving at 55 mph than get stuck on the freeway. For me, I like the moving scenery, listening to some tunes. I like coasting down the road, it's relaxing. Majority of the time I have the cruse control on anyways.

So, I wouldn't mind a self driving car as long I can roll down the windows

You forgot to mention that fresh Ohio country air.

[saevel25]

You forgot to mention that fresh Ohio country air.

Oh it's not that bad. I drive the back roads all the time from Dayton to Canton (3-4 hour drive) and hardly ever get the manure smell.

[Jeremie Boop]

Hmm... I'm a speed freak, so sometimes I like to drop the hammer and go. It's not often, and never in traffic. I'll take my cbr out in the country and open the throttle until everything is a blur. Or I'll punch it in my car until the speed limiter kicks in. I don't stay at those speeds of course, but the thrill of the acceleration is nice sometimes. If I had the money I'd have a vehicle worth taking to the drag strip. However, all that said, for the daily commute to work or that long trip? Definitely would love the option of get in, sit down, and relax. I think you'd be surprised how much quicker even normal commutes would be with everyone in cars like this. There would be no need for stop signs or stop lights because these cars could automatically adjust the speed to make turns and such in the gaps between traffic. This, of course, would be pretty far in the future.

[Lihu]

Interesting impressions of self driving cars. The person being interviewed is a Bay Area engineer, so his sense of an ideal society is intertwined into his dreams for the car. What I think it will look like is more on the lines of what Saevel and Jamo are describing. You just don't need to drive. You don't need to weave through traffic, because you are already working, typing on a computer, enjoying scenery, watching Movies, talking to relatives, or if you are elderly won't plow throught crowds of people when you phase out temporarily. Cars will most likely be an extension of your house, and have all the comforts you can afford. Kind of like electric seats on modern cars versus a wooden bench on a buggy driven by a horse. Most likely the cars will be electric or hybrids, too. I'm sure there will be a day when you need a special license to drive a car, so you aren't the cause of accidents while all the other cars drive themselves.

[dsc123]

Unless lanes are designated for these vehicles I don't see how they will reduce commute times.  I'd also guess one of the programming rules is to adhere to the posted speed limits which means no one under 90 will be interested here in  NY.

hmmm...I try to imagine driving on the belt parkway with self-driving cars sticking to the speed limit....it can't be worse than the current situation.  But you're right, nobody would want it!

[CarlSpackler]

hmmm...I try to imagine driving on the belt parkway with self-driving cars sticking to the speed limit....it can't be worse than the current situation.  But you're right, nobody would want it!

From what I remember as a former resident of N. VA, you would be sitting still in a self driving car too.

[Golfingdad]

If I can play devil's advocate for a second, I'd like to make a few points:

I like driving as much as (or more than) the next guy, but I'm not sure I actually "like driving." That is, I don't think the speed up/slow down, left turn/right turn, quick stop of it all is really what I'm enjoying. More likely it's the scenery, it's listening to my iPhone, it's the alone time. I don't taking the wheel and peddles away would curtail that much.

Also, I don't think this would negate the want for or availability of sports cars. Even if they drive themselves, some people are going to want smaller, more economical cars, some people are going to want SUVs/minivans/trucks, and some are going to want 2-seat convertible roadsters. That doesn't have to change.

People who owned horses and buggies probably had concerns too.

The only time I really like driving (and I do a lot of it - 'take Sepulveda to the 405 south, to the 5, and get outta here!!) is when it's a fun short trip (store, park, beach) and we break out the Mini Cooper convertible.  And it's specifically the steering, gas, braking, etc that is fun.  It's like I'm in a little go-kart race.  But don't ask about the transmission - I'm still irritated that my wife (girlfriend at the time) didn't/doesn't know how to drive a freakin' stick!

hmmm...I try to imagine driving on the belt parkway with self-driving cars sticking to the speed limit....it can't be worse than the current situation.  But you're right, nobody would want it!

Until they realized that everybody being on the same page at 65mph will get everybody to where they are going a heck of a lot faster than everybody driving random speeds and switching lanes, speeding up, braking, etc, etc.  Then they might change their tune.

[saevel25]

hmmm...I try to imagine driving on the belt parkway with self-driving cars sticking to the speed limit....it can't be worse than the current situation.  But you're right, nobody would want it!

Well I believe the cars have cameras on top and see the lane lines. So first all the roads need to be kept up with their pavement markings. I would prefer a secondary device, maybe something installed on the edge of the roadway that the car can measure from just in case.

I don't think it is reducing commute times, more than reducing accidents. Which overall should reduce commute times. Also, you can optimize signalization as well since it will be on a total network. You can get 100% data on vehicle movements.

So yes, things should theoretically improve. Also the cars would be smaller since they probably be all electric. Since accidents will be minimal, cars can be made smaller as well. So if you have two 12 foot lanes, you might be able to have now three 8 foot lanes instead. So with out even changing the road width you have increased the capacity of the roadway by 50%. Which is pretty substantial.

The place I think this would be awesome is NYC. Just imagine, coming out of a shop you pull up an app, tap you need a car, and one shows up. Hop in and you are off. You can create a huge taxi network in NYC with out human drivers.

[dsc123]

Until they realized that everybody being on the same page at 65mph will get everybody to where they are going a heck of a lot faster than everybody driving random speeds and switching lanes, speeding up, braking, etc, etc.  Then they might change their tune.

Spoken like a true Californian!  Didn't you say you have family on long island or northern jersey or something?  Ask them if she thinks those NYers going 80 on a winding road with no shoulders that's littered with mega-pot holes, are going to change their tune about anything!  My guess is they'll repeat the famous sign on the Belt Parkway:

These guys aren't so reasonable

The place I think this would be awesome is NYC. Just imagine, coming out of a shop you pull up an app, tap you need a car, and one shows up. Hop in and you are off. You can create a huge taxi network in NYC with out human drivers.

DC could use it too!  I swear, anytime the weatherman predicts rain there are crashes and delays everywhere!

[Lihu]

The only time I really like driving (and I do a lot of it - 'take Sepulveda to the 405 south, to the 5, and get outta here!!) is when it's a fun short trip (store, park, beach) and we break out the Mini Cooper convertible.  And it's specifically the steering, gas, braking, etc that is fun.  It's like I'm in a little go-kart race.  But don't ask about the transmission - I'm still irritated that my wife (girlfriend at the time) didn't/doesn't know how to drive a freakin' stick!

Until they realized that everybody being on the same page at 65mph will get everybody to where they are going a heck of a lot faster than everybody driving random speeds and switching lanes, speeding up, braking, etc, etc.  Then they might change their tune.

I've never seen a time where it is desirable to be driving anywhere near the 405. However, I also enjoy driving in certain areas. Mostly up the PCH towards WA and OR. It would be nice if driving were a pleasure rather than a necessity.

BTW, I feel your pain about the stick thing. My wife still can't drive stick, but my daughter wants to learn in a couple years. She wants a roadster for her first car, like a 67 MGB or 70 Triumph.

Well I believe the cars have cameras on top and see the lane lines. So first all the roads need to be kept up with their pavement markings. I would prefer a secondary device, maybe something installed on the edge of the roadway that the car can measure from just in case.

I don't think it is reducing commute times, more than reducing accidents. Which overall should reduce commute times. Also, you can optimize signalization as well since it will be on a total network. You can get 100% data on vehicle movements.

So yes, things should theoretically improve. Also the cars would be smaller since they probably be all electric. Since accidents will be minimal, cars can be made smaller as well. So if you have two 12 foot lanes, you might be able to have now three 8 foot lanes instead. So with out even changing the road width you have increased the capacity of the roadway by 50%. Which is pretty substantial.

The place I think this would be awesome is NYC. Just imagine, coming out of a shop you pull up an app, tap you need a car, and one shows up. Hop in and you are off. You can create a huge taxi network in NYC with out human drivers.

They use 3D laser range finders to see other cars, as was the most successful during the DARPA grant challenge. They are testing out all different kinds of sensors to augment and possibly replace these. The technology is very sound based upon combined visual and sensor data. They do landmark detection and SLAM (simultaneous localization and mapping), to determine where and how the car should drive. This decreases the need to have perfectly maintained road markers. Cars will learn any changes to the terrain and drive accordingly. One of my ex-colleagues is now working on this project with a team of experts in Robotics at Google. They are pretty good at what they do, and are working hard to make this a reality.

Not sure how it will impact traffic patterns, but there won't be a need for traffic signals, police can spend more time looking for criminals and I think people will be less stressed out in general.

Driving is always stressful, it's just that some people deal with it differently than others. Some like to drive aggressively to "vent their anger", others like to drive really cautiously. No matter what, when you have to go from one place to another driving is a chore.

[Golfingdad]

Spoken like a true Californian!  Didn't you say you have family on long island or northern jersey or something?  Ask them if she thinks those NYers going 80 on a winding road with no shoulders that's littered with mega-pot holes, are going to change their tune about anything!  My guess is they'll repeat the famous sign on the Belt Parkway:

These guys aren't so reasonable

LOL, I have that picture!!  Took it while racing to JFK from Philadelphia a few years back to catch a plane back home.

Yeah, wife's family in NYC, Hoboken and Yorktown Heights, and lots of friends on Long Island.

[saevel25]

Not sure how it will impact traffic patterns, but there won't be a need for traffic signals, police can spend more time looking for criminals and I think people will be less stressed out in general.

Driving is always stressful, it's just that some people deal with it differently than others. Some like to drive aggressively to "vent their anger", others like to drive really cautiously. No matter what, when you have to go from one place to another driving is a chore.

Actually this is false. They will need traffic lights for pedestrians. The issue is that pedestrian signals are tied to the green and yellow times on a signal phase cycle. So when a pedestrian comes to an intersection to cross, does he just step out? He would need to push a button, and the cars will need to stop in on direction plus any turning movements to allow pedestrians to cross the intersection. It would be insane to try to program those cars to move around pedestrians, especially if you have a lot of pedestrian movements. It would be best to leave some sort of traffic signal for pedestrian movements.